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Juan Foyth

Legohamster said:
Because he will improve with a season of first team football, hopefully get stronger and less rash in the challenge.

He will get more first team footballer elsewhere for a season.

Why would a lad who is starting for Argentina not want to play week in week out?
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I think he would be insulted and would ask to leave

Come to spurs and join a club in the up... he’ll we will get you to play for your country as a youngster

And then can you go and play for Sheffield United please
 
Legohamster said:
I am not sure playing the same style is the be all if we look to send him on loan, he is very raw at the moment - a season honing his defensive ability above anything else wouldn't be that bad, would it?

Look how KWP has been held back, there is no certainties - but would he be in a better position with a full season under his belt? I think so.
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Has KWP been held back or just not played?

He has had MOTM in his first two prem starts IIRC
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Has KWP been held back or just not played?

He has had MOTM in his first two prem starts IIRC
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KWPs development has been held back/stunted due to lack of playing time.

Though I wouldnt say KWP has been held back, rather it would seem he just isnt good enough to break through against weak competition.

Considering how Poch has managed us to date, its the only reasonable conclusion IMO.
 
milo said:
Could he be our first choice RB next season?
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I’m not sure I’d want him to be first choice in that position, it’s still quite new to him.
When he played there against West Ham I thought he looked a bit shaky and he had to be bailed out by Sanchez a couple of times as I recall.
In fairness it was only his second (?) time in that role and by all accounts he played well at RB last week for Argentina. Poch has mentioned about him playing there, so who am I to argue. Certainly he could be an option as a back up.
 
Legohamster said:
I am not sure playing the same style is the be all if we look to send him on loan, he is very raw at the moment - a season honing his defensive ability above anything else wouldn't be that bad, would it?

Look how KWP has been held back, there is no certainties - but would he be in a better position with a full season under his belt? I think so.
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Which parts of his defensive abilities though? We've seen in the past how players can look excellent ok one system, then out of their depths in another. What we ask from our centre backs is quite different to what some other teams ask of them. I would argue a smaller number of games, but playing in our system whilst working with our coaches could be more beneficial than more games at a different cub.

You're right about KWP in that there are no certainties. We'll never know the answer to the counterfactual question, what if he was loaned out.

Meanwhile Pochettino has succeeded at Spurs and Southampton at bringing through young players without loaning them out. I would say succeeded at a better rate than any other Spurs manager I can remember, and better than most other managers in the game.

Perhaps we will start using loans more now that game time is less accessible due to the quality in our current squad. Perhaps. But I don't see it as an obvious answer for all young players with talent short on game time.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
I’m not sure I’d want him to be first choice in that position, it’s still quite new to him.
When he played there against West Ham I thought he looked a bit shaky and he had to be bailed out by Sanchez a couple of times as I recall.
In fairness it was only his second (?) time in that role and by all accounts he played well at RB last week for Argentina. Poch has mentioned about him playing there, so who am I to argue. Certainly he could be an option as a back up.
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Shaky compared to who? Trippier? Aurier? KWP? A. N. Other we could realistically sign.

Not saying it will happen, but wouldn't be shocked.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
KWPs development has been held back/stunted due to lack of playing time.

Though I wouldnt say KWP has been held back, rather it would seem he just isnt good enough to break through against weak competition.

Considering how Poch has managed us to date, its the only reasonable conclusion IMO.
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It's interesting because his performances when he did play were actually OK. Of all our first team squad players he is probably the one who would benefit the most from a decent loan. He could play first team football at right back for a number of teams in the PL, which I think would be good for both him and the club.
 
Finney Is Back said:
It's interesting because his performances when he did play were actually OK. Of all our first team squad players he is probably the one who would benefit the most from a decent loan. He could play first team football at right back for a number of teams in the PL, which I think would be good for both him and the club.
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Im not against a loan at all, could be the making of him - and all the while it looks like he wont play for us I think he has to leave one way or another.

So either we loan him, and retain the potential to benefit from him if he does well, or we sell him.

I agree with you, I thought he was OK. Neither especially good nor bad.

However, Trippier was poor - and he couldnt get past him. Aurier was injured - and he couldnt get past him. Then at the end of the season Foyth (4 years younger and a CB!) was preferred to start games.

I dont know why, as you say he was ok when he played, but it seems we just dont have faith in him or rate him.

If he cant get games in a season like last, I wonder if he ever will.
 
Just to add - we reportedly tried to use him as a makeweight in a deal for Wan-Bissaka. I wouldnt be at all surprised if we ended up doing similar before the end of the window.

E.G. KWP + £10m = Aarons?
 
If we sent him out on loan, what chances do we have of bringing in as good a player to cover the position?
 
Foyth as cover for RB is a great option, a 20 year old who can, if needed, start at either CB or RB or the right of back 3 - and very useful as a sub due to his versatility.

Also if Poch can iron out the John Stones part of Foyth's game then we will be on to a fantastic prospect.
 
braineclipse said:
Which parts of his defensive abilities though? We've seen in the past how players can look excellent ok one system, then out of their depths in another. What we ask from our centre backs is quite different to what some other teams ask of them. I would argue a smaller number of games, but playing in our system whilst working with our coaches could be more beneficial than more games at a different cub.

You're right about KWP in that there are no certainties. We'll never know the answer to the counterfactual question, what if he was loaned out.

Meanwhile Pochettino has succeeded at Spurs and Southampton at bringing through young players without loaning them out. I would say succeeded at a better rate than any other Spurs manager I can remember, and better than most other managers in the game.

Perhaps we will start using loans more now that game time is less accessible due to the quality in our current squad. Perhaps. But I don't see it as an obvious answer for all young players with talent short on game time.
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Switching off, rash tackles are his weaknesses at the moment - things that can be ironed out with more football - I rate him highly, it may come across as I dont, but I dont think he is ready to be starting more than a handful of games for a top 4 side just yet.

I see KWP the same he was outstanding against Burnley and Fulham? last season - but against Southampton and West Ham he looked a complete liability

That is a big call, better than any others in the game? He is good but not that good.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Has KWP been held back or just not played?

He has had MOTM in his first two prem starts IIRC
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Yes, I dont know how you can say he has not - he is 22 and played 19 games in total. - by 22 Kyle Walker had played 70ish games at numerous first team levels.

The 2 ahead of him last year had a mixed season at best.
 
Legohamster said:
Yes, I dont know how you can say he has not - he is 22 and played 19 games in total. - by 22 Kyle Walker had played 70ish games at numerous first team levels.

The 2 ahead of him last year had a mixed season at best.
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But Kyle Walker was playing in a lesser side not competing for titles so naturally got game time

He also played on loan
 
Legohamster said:
Yes, I dont know how you can say he has not - he is 22 and played 19 games in total. - by 22 Kyle Walker had played 70ish games at numerous first team levels.

The 2 ahead of him last year had a mixed season at best.
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This is the crux of it for me.

With that lack of genuine competition KWP should have pushed through. And he didnt. Theres two main reasons that could be, IMO:
1) Poch held him back.
or 2) He wasnt good enough.

I think we would all agree 1) is highly unlikely, Poch allows youth a chance all the time, and when a young player does well he gets more chances.

Which leads me to the sad conclusion, KWP just isnt good enough. So does that count as being held back? Id argue not.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
This is the crux of it for me.

With that lack of genuine competition KWP should have pushed through. And he didnt. Theres two main reasons that could be, IMO:
1) Poch held him back.
or 2) He wasnt good enough.

I think we would all agree 1) is highly unlikely, Poch allows youth a chance all the time, and when a young player does well he gets more chances.

Which leads me to the sad conclusion, KWP just isnt good enough. So does that count as being held back? Id argue not.
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But would he have been readier to challenge with 40 odd league games under his belt?
 
Legohamster said:
But would he have been readier to challenge with 40 odd league games under his belt?
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Who knows? Maybe with 40 games under his belt we would have already written him off and sold him?

Winks had no league experience but was trusted. Alli stepped up two divisions and was trusted. Foyth came from South America as green as can be and has been trusted - and crucially even trusted at RB ahead of KWP despite being a CB.

I dont think experience is the biggest factor in this equation as Poch has proven it is not a limiting factor.

The thing that I dont understand is that KWP clearly hasnt been terrible, Id say he has been ok, and yet he has still seemingly been written off - I wonder why? What has Poch seen (or not seen) to come to that decision?
 
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