Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[Finney Is Back]

I think things are quite different, personally.

We can go at length with it, but ultimately I suspect neither of us really want to.

Short version - things were falling apart under Poch, slowly they are coming together again (IMO).

I stand by the view that management certainly is/was a big part of the problem. And to be fair, I dont think anyone argued it was the ONLY problem.

Its clearly a big job.

Interested in what you think is coming together now under Mourinho? I haven't really seen anything in our defending or attacking that looks better. I have noticed that we fart around with it less at the back now, but we aren't competing for the second ball with any effort after we've hoofed it long.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Why do you think we have no money?
I did the sums a while back and we have plenty of money now
The issue of course is can we get who we want, when we want

Because Levy overspent by about £200 million on the stadium. We now have £637 million of debt which is a HUGE amount of debt for a football club of our size. I would absolutely love to be wrong about this by the way and see us spend £100+ million net combining the next two windows.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Interested in what you think is coming together now under Mourinho? I haven't really seen anything in our defending or attacking that looks better. I have noticed that we fart around with it less at the back now, but we aren't competing for the second ball with any effort after we've hoofed it long.

The nature of games under Mourinho has been better. We seem to start poorly but recover well in the second half (particularly, if not before) and have the resilience to recover wins/draws.

Under Pochettino is was basically the opposite. Started well then collapsed as soon as it ran against us.

Under Mourinho we arent playing well, but we are in games until the end. We are causing the opposition problems in every match, we look like scoring. We arent nearly cohesive enough and we really do need to settle on a shape and selection (specifically midfield being the issue).

Under Poch we werent playing well, didnt look like scoring nor like getting a result.

Its a slow process, but seems to me we are trying to identify weaknesses in the opposition and exploit it (with mixed success) while still trying to find solutions to our own failings (again, hit and miss).

I see a work in progress now, not a team in free fall.

That said there are still clearly issues to be resolved. Some through recruitment, some through injury recovery, some through direct coaching input - theres a lot of moving parts to come together still.

I do at least have faith at this point that its being worked on. Mourinhos vanity wont allow for us to stay as we are.

 

[billyiddo]

Interested in what you think is coming together now under Mourinho? I haven't really seen anything in our defending or attacking that looks better. I have noticed that we fart around with it less at the back now, but we aren't competing for the second ball with any effort after we've hoofed it long.

We've conceded more goals than any other team since Mourinho took over i heard/read during the game yesterday.

For a manager famed for his defensive approach that's not a good look

 

[parklane1]

Mourinho just needs time. Clearly the situation in the past was not all to do with Poch but the situation now is we need a new squad and we need to give that guy in charge time to deliver.

I know those in love with Poch are going to take the time to stick the boot in evert time we lose but we need time.

That sums it up for me as well, i wanted Poch to stay but i am happy with the appointment of Jose. The problem for me is that we still seem to have players who are going through the motions and not giving their all. So many fans blamed Poch alone for our bad run but guess what? we still look half a team under Jose and that will not change until we get rid of those who are not giving their all.

Big job ahead for us now.

 

[StephenH]

We've conceded more goals than any other team since Mourinho took over i heard/read during the game yesterday.

For a manager famed for his defensive approach that's not a good look

Sadly I was not surprised we lost a Southampton which sums up where we are.
The whole manager thing has totally left me very low when comes to Spurs.
Mourinho looked back to Man U persona. Yesterday was so bad. Our team looks dreadful.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Because Levy overspent by about £200 million on the stadium. We now have £637 million of debt which is a HUGE amount of debt for a football club of our size. I would absolutely love to be wrong about this by the way and see us spend £100+ million net combining the next two windows.

When I did the sums a while back I had ya having the capacity to spend £100m a season without a problem and capacity for £50m more dependant on wages and outgoings

the Lo Celso deal is a buy now pay later option isn’t it so that could come from next years money

 

[Grays_1890]

We've conceded more goals than any other team since Mourinho took over i heard/read during the game yesterday.

For a manager famed for his defensive approach that's not a good look

I don't think we have looked overly more impressive TBH, picked up points but for me we look pretty much the same.

Yesterday was as bad as anything I have seen under Poch this season bar Brighton, Chelsea was perfection also.

 

[parklane1]

I think the "told ya so's" are simply those who felt that the problem was not the manager but the squad that had stagnated and had far too many players approaching the end of contracts.

I think we could've got Jurgen Klopp or Pep Guardiola in and would still be having the same problems.

We need to use the transfer market wisely and quite significantly in this January and Summer 2020 windows. My worry is that we have no money left to do so.

I would agree with most of that, no sure about having no money though. What i will say is that January is not usually a good time to attract the type of players we need and we may have to wait for the summer window. As i have said elsewhere Poch had to deal with some players who ( for whatever reason) had downed tools and i see Jose is still having problems with ( although he is getting better results in some games).

 

[StephenH]

I would agree with most of that, no sure about having no money though. What i will say is that January is not usually a good time to attract the type of players we need and we may have to wait for the summer window. As i have said elsewhere Poch had to deal with some players who ( for whatever reason) had downed tools and i see Jose is still having problems with ( although he is getting better results in some games).

Whom in particular?
I just think they all look rushed and skittish - not they "downed' tools", more they "dropped them" in clumsiness.

 

[parklane1]

Whom in particular?
I just think they all look rushed and skittish - not they "downed' tools", more they "dropped them" in clumsiness.

Take you pick, all of a sudden we have players who are nothing like they were a season back. There is no urgency in a lot of them and strolling around. No one can convince me that so many players have dropped their standards/effort through age.

Never will be able to prove that though but lots of fans blamed Poch so how come i still see the same at games now under Jose?

 

[Pirate55]

While I think JM should be given time, I must say I am disappointed by his work to date. I thought he would have had a much greater immediate impact than he has had. I was at the Burnley game and thought that was encouraging and a turning point in our fortunes. However, the last couple of games we have really regressed. The main ingredient missing is hunger. Both Norwich and Southampton had vastly inferior technical players on the pitch but they just wanted it more. Our players seem to have an unjustified superiority complex and are not competing for second balls nearly well enough. This is a systemic failure and will obviously take time to change and a replenishment of the right new recruits will undoubtedly help in this process.

 

[StephenH]

Take you pick, all of a sudden we have players who are nothing like they were a season back. There is no urgency in a lot of them and strolling around. No one can convince me that so many players have dropped their standards/effort through age.

Never will be able to prove that though but lots of fans blamed Poch so how come i still see the same at games now under Jose?

I don't see a general lazy shiftyness, especially under Mourinho. I see almost confusion or muddled rushed play.
They look like their 'runnin around a bit' but with little idea as to why?

 

[StephenH]

Both Norwich and Southampton had vastly inferior technical players

Sorry, that is so wrong. Go watch those games again. We passed around at the back but did little else. Yesterday I think I heard we had 'no shots on goal'. But not sure If Dele's attempt at a back header counts and Norwich gave us a footballing lesson in the first half.

 

[Pirate55]

Sorry, that is so wrong. Go watch those games again. We passed around at the back but did little else. Yesterday I think I heard we had 'no shots on goal'. But not sure If Dele's attempt at a back header counts and Norwich gave us a footballing lesson in the first half.

Which of the Norwich or Soton players would you swop for ours? Both teams harried the hell out of us and we couldn't cope. Not the first time that has happened but our prima donnas need to learn that they must compete first before they can play.

 

[Grays_1890]

While I think JM should be given time, I must say I am disappointed by his work to date. I thought he would have had a much greater immediate impact than he has had. I was at the Burnley game and thought that was encouraging and a turning point in our fortunes. However, the last couple of games we have really regressed. The main ingredient missing is hunger. Both Norwich and Southampton had vastly inferior technical players on the pitch but they just wanted it more. Our players seem to have an unjustified superiority complex and are not competing for second balls nearly well enough. This is a systemic failure and will obviously take time to change and a replenishment of the right new recruits will undoubtedly help in this process.

Spot on

 

[StephenH]

Which of the Norwich or Soton players would you swop for ours? Both teams harried the hell out of us and we couldn't cope. Not the first time that has happened but our prima donnas need to learn that they must compete first before they can play.

Both full-backs @ Norwich.
Pukki and Cantwell for Lamela (fitness) and Moura.
Stiepermann for Dire both out with injuries ATM.
Ings as Kane/Son backup

Swap - Cantwell for Lamela and Fullbacks

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

From the BBC repots
SCBC
Possession 59%
Shots 11 (vs 12)
On Target 5 (vs 3)
Corners 9 (vs 6)

Norwich
Possession 59%
Shots 15 (vs 5)
On Target 7 (vs 2)
Corners 6 (vs 4)

I think the Norwich game started badly, but we finished strong. However that bad start is clouding the judgement a bit.

SCBC definitely looked more up for it, more aggressive, and we were definitely poor by comparison. However, we still had more possession, more shots on target, only 1 less shot over all, more corners - and didnt offer them much in the way of genuine opportunities.

We arent playing well, but I think how bad we are doing is somewhat over stated.

Going back a little further

Brighton
Possession 46%
Shots 11 (vs 11)
On Target 5 (vs 5)
Corners 2 (vs 9)

A very even game reflected in the performance I think

Chelsea
Possession 56%
Shots 13 (vs 5)
On Target 3 (vs 1)
Corners 5 (vs 3)

Actually much better than I thought

 

[braineclipse]

Sadly I was not surprised we lost a Southampton which sums up where we are.
The whole manager thing has totally left me very low when comes to Spurs.
Mourinho looked back to Man U persona. Yesterday was so bad. Our team looks dreadful.

Third game in a very short time. Missing Davies, Dier, Son, players just coming back from injury, losing Ndombele fairly early to an injury..

It was always going to be a tough game, particularly when we conceded first.

While I think JM should be given time, I must say I am disappointed by his work to date. I thought he would have had a much greater immediate impact than he has had. I was at the Burnley game and thought that was encouraging and a turning point in our fortunes. However, the last couple of games we have really regressed. The main ingredient missing is hunger. Both Norwich and Southampton had vastly inferior technical players on the pitch but they just wanted it more. Our players seem to have an unjustified superiority complex and are not competing for second balls nearly well enough. This is a systemic failure and will obviously take time to change and a replenishment of the right new recruits will undoubtedly help in this process.

I'm not sure what we should have expected. We've gone from almost forgetting about top four this season to being disappointed about not making up more of the gap.

There's a lot of work to be done, that was always going to be the case. I'm not sure there's much value in judging Mourinho on results and performances over just a few poor games just yet.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Third game in a very short time. Missing Davies, Dier, Son, players just coming back from injury, losing Ndombele fairly early to an injury..

It was always going to be a tough game, particularly when we conceded first. I'm not sure what we should have expected. We've gone from almost forgetting about top four this season to being disappointed about not making up more of the gap.

There's a lot of work to be done, that was always going to be the case. I'm not sure there's much value in judging Mourinho on results and performances over just a few poor games just yet.

It’s literally the reason he was hired though, to get more out of these players. He is not someone that you hire and wait so that the pieces of his long term vision fall in to place. He picks on opponents weaknesses and gets results. Otherwise he isn’t doing anything we couldn’t already do.

I think the issues under Jose are the issues that we had at the start of the reason. I think this group has struggled to adapt to a different style of play. They were no longer able to run as hard as they needed and haven’t been able to adapt to different styles. To the points around these players not winning enough of the second balls, I think that is right. And it’s something that we see regardless of which style we are using.

Seeing the goal we conceded against Sheffield United at home. We were playing deeper and we were standing off. It’s a fine, feasible strategy. But they scored a relatively simple goal because I think our players just right now lack a bit of that park to win the 1 v 1s that they need to win. And regardless of the system, whether you are pressing high or dropping deeper, you need to win them. I think Poch’s attempt to play a diamond and the general idea of less pressing was to respond to the fact that these players didn’t want / couldn’t run as much as they have done in the past. And Jose’s style isn’t built on as much pressing anyway - his hire is a recognition of the fact that this squad should be older and wiser and able to play a game that is about containing space in different areas of the pitch.

But I don’t think anything is particularly working. We were horrendous against Chelsea, we created nothing of note at Southampton and we’re patting ourselves on the back for ‘even’ games against bottom of the league Norwich and bottom half Brighton at home. Something needs to improve big time, and quickly. Right now I don’t see any tangible improvement. I see a different style in possession, but I think these players have been given the chance to play a bunch of different styles and none of them are working. I think they may just be done as a group. Hope I’m wrong.