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Jose Mourinho - SACKED

elltrev said:
I agree with most of that. I would only say:

a) Even if it's obviously Ndombele's responsibility to get himself fit, it's also Jose's to do whatever it takes to get the best out of his players, especially one as talented as Ndombele. Or in other words: whilst it's obvious Ndombele is a tricky player to manage, Jose is being paid the big bucks to do so effectively. (I'm not blaming Jose for Ndombele's fitness struggles, or giving Ndombele a free ride - I'm just saying Jose has to do everything he can to maximise the likelihood of Ndombele getting fit and firing. Which he might already be doing - hard to know without seeing behind the scenes).

b) Jose surely could have bought Ndombele on at HT yesterday, instead of Sissoko - he surely can't be so unfit that he can't manage 45 minutes?
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The fact he was giving him personal sessions during lockdown should indicate he was trying? What more can he do? I’m all ears on how our manager can force NDombele to get fit?! And if he does need to, the fact he needs to go to such lengths should be giving out massive red flags he doesn’t have the right mentality.

None of us know how fit he is, to know how many minutes he should have done. He should have just been on the bench to give a few minutes to in order to build up fitness, which he did do. But agree Sissoko wasn’t the answer, perhaps Lamela if he really wanted Dele off....
 
harr1984 said:
I don’t recall saying he’s beyond criticism.

I just wasn’t surprised with the lack of options in CM area as to the creativity issues. I am confident in our play if one of NDombele or Lo Celso starts. Without them it’s always going to be poor. But to be fair if Man U didn’t have Fernandes and Pogba playing they wouldn’t look creative either.
My issue with Mourinho yesterday was the Dele sub, that was poor - but he admitted he fudged up there, it happens. And something that bugs me with him is he always prefers Moura to Bergwijn who I think is the better player.

As an aside and not an excuse, just an observation - playing Everton first up must of been one of the most awkward fixtures to have. Because of their new recruits you would have no idea what their starting line up would be with Rodriguez not playing in months and Allan and Doucoure not long arrived etc and how they would setup so would be difficult to plan.

It was poor viewing and performance from all involved. But I don’t buy it’s as bad as some are making out. These threads remind me so much of after the Sheffield Utd game and we picked up well since then. I’m just going to give it a few weeks and let things settle a little first....
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Definitely a fair point about possible overreaction from one game. I think for me it was the fact that this was the first game of a new season - a chance for a fresh start, that banished all the negativity and flaws from the last 12+ months. If we can't look up for it and even half-decent in that context, I fear that our issues are deep-rooted.

As you say though, maybe things will change and this will end up just being a blip that many of us are overreacting to!
 
harr1984 said:
The fact he was giving him personal sessions during lockdown should indicate he was trying? What more can he do? I’m all ears on how our manager can force NDombele to get fit?! And if he does need to, the fact he needs to go to such lengths should be giving out massive red flags he doesn’t have the right meteorology.

None of us know how fit he is, to know how many minutes he should have done. He should have just been on the bench to give a few minutes to in order to build up fitness, which he did do. But agree Sissoko wasn’t the answer, perhaps Lamela if he really wanted Dele off....
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Yeah as I said it's impossible for any of us to know what Jose is doing behind the scenes really. I guess my main thought is that his approach seems to have been very critical (including publicly), rather than supportive - clearly that's the Jose way, which I'm sure works for some players. I just wonder whether Ndombele would respond better to a more supportive approach that bigs up his talent, gives an arm round the shoulder etc. But impossible to know really.
 
harr1984 said:
I don’t recall saying he’s beyond criticism.

I just wasn’t surprised with the lack of options in CM area as to the creativity issues. I am confident in our play if one of NDombele or Lo Celso starts. Without them it’s always going to be poor. But to be fair if Man U didn’t have Fernandes and Pogba playing they wouldn’t look creative either.
My issue with Mourinho yesterday was the Dele sub, that was poor - but he admitted he fudged up there, it happens. And something that bugs me with him is he always prefers Moura to Bergwijn who I think is the better player.

As an aside and not an excuse, just an observation - playing Everton first up must of been one of the most awkward fixtures to have. Because of their new recruits you would have no idea what their starting line up would be with Rodriguez not playing in months and Allan and Doucoure not long arrived etc and how they would setup so would be difficult to plan.

It was poor viewing and performance from all involved. But I don’t buy it’s as bad as some are making out. These threads remind me so much of after the Sheffield Utd game and we picked up well since then. I’m just going to give it a few weeks and let things settle a little first....
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Fair enough

For me its the total lack of tempo from yesterday, first game up and there was zero tempo, pace or spirit.
 
Indeed, can anyone name more than 5 games where we've played well with verve, good passing etc (regardless of the final result) after the initial manager bounce?
Say, since the 2-0 loss to Chelsea at home before christmas?
 
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glorygloryeze said:
Indeed, can anyone name more than 5 games where we've played well with verve, good passing etc (regardless of the final result) after the initial manager bounce?
Say, since the 2-0 loss to Chelsea at home before christmas?
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Can you name 5 league games last year that we had that?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Can you name 5 league games last year that we had that?
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I assume you mean last season? If so, easy:

Home vs Fulham
Home vs Chelsea
Away vs Everton
Home vs Bournemouth
Home vs Huddersfield
Home vs Man utd

All of those games, regardless of result, you could see some attacking movement, verve, methodology...yes our defensive play, especially in cm was brick, but going forwards you could see gameplan, creativity etc
 
glorygloryeze said:
I assume you mean last season? If so, easy:

Home vs Fulham
Home vs Chelsea
Away vs Everton
Home vs Bournemouth
Home vs Huddersfield
Home vs Man utd

All of those games, regardless of result, you could see some attacking movement, verve, methodology...yes our defensive play, especially in cm was brick, but going forwards you could see gameplan, creativity etc
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No I said last year
As in the calendar year which was rotten form all year under 2 managers
 
Emirates Marketing Project away we were excellent up against it

Palace at Home

We were 2 nil up in NLD and playing decent stuff

And Leics away we were very competent and lost to a goal that shouldn't have been disallowed
 
Bedfordspurs said:
No I said last year
As in the calendar year which was rotten form all year under 2 managers
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Oh i see.

Ok:
Away to Cardiff (though very ruthless)
Home vs Man utd
Away to Fulham
Home to Huddersfield
Home to Palace (twice)
Away to Leicester
Away to West Ham
Home to Bournemouth
Home to Burnley

Going forward our gameplay has gotten worse after a vibrant start under Jose. I'd say going forward now we are MORE turgid than the worst we were serving up last calendar year....getting SCHOOLED by the likes of Lampard, OGS and the Norwich manager...
 
Grays_1890 said:
Emirates Marketing Project away we were excellent up against it

Palace at Home

We were 2 nil up in NLD and playing decent stuff

And Leics away we were very competent and lost to a goal that shouldn't have been disallowed
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So a stretch to 4
One in which we were lucky with VaR and the new rules
Palace at home i genuinely can’t remember to comment on
Losing a 2 goal lead
And Leicester where I agree we played really well until VAR killed us mentally again... which is still a big issue
 
glorygloryeze said:
Oh i see.

Ok:
Away to Cardiff (though very ruthless)
Home vs Man utd
Away to Fulham
Home to Huddersfield
Home to Palace (twice)
Away to Leicester
Away to West Ham
Home to Bournemouth
Home to Burnley

Going forward our gameplay has gotten worse after a vibrant start under Jose. I'd say going forward now we are MORE turgid than the worst we were serving up last calendar year....getting SCHOOLED by the likes of Lampard, OGS and the Norwich manager...
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And Bruce, Dyche and Wilder don’t forget, oh and the Brighton manager whose name i Move forgotten

the attack now looks weaker but the defence looks much better.. it’s a balance that needs addressing
 
Its not lucky with VAR if the decision was right

And the argument of losing a lead wasn't the point, its where did we play well despite result, the NLD away we were excellent despite the result.

Poch didn't last much else, I could throw in the opening game of season that despite a struggle we gave ourselves a chance to win and we did.

Thts not to say it was perfect it wasn't it was dire, but just answering your question.

Its equally dire now though
 
glorygloryeze said:
Oh i see.

Ok:
Away to Cardiff (though very ruthless)
Home vs Man utd
Away to Fulham
Home to Huddersfield
Home to Palace (twice)
Away to Leicester
Away to West Ham
Home to Bournemouth
Home to Burnley

Going forward our gameplay has gotten worse after a vibrant start under Jose. I'd say going forward now we are MORE turgid than the worst we were serving up last calendar year....getting SCHOOLED by the likes of Lampard, OGS and the Norwich manager...
Click to expand...

Its so weird. In our first game against Wet Spam, Dele seemed to play in his best position right behind Kane, and we kept trying to pop balls forward to him at every opportunity, he kept working that in between space creating lots of room for Kane and Son in the process. I realize wet Spam are brick, but even attempting to do this now is just completely gone. We don't even try it anymore. Why? You could see as soon as Ndombele came on yesterday that we've got plenty of players up there waiting to receive the ball, yet we keep passing it around and out on the wings. And when one of your wing backs is Ben Davies, needless to say you're not going to create much. It sounds banal and stupid, but we just need to work the channels more, attack more directly and get the ball to the front three sooner and take it from there. Passing it out to the wing for him to figure something out isn't working too well.
 
Daisuk said:
Its so weird. In our first game against Wet Spam, Dele seemed to play in his best position right behind Kane, and we kept trying to pop balls forward to him at every opportunity, he kept working that in between space creating lots of room for Kane and Son in the process. I realize wet Spam are brick, but even attempting to do this now is just completely gone. We don't even try it anymore. Why? You could see as soon as Ndombele came on yesterday that we've got plenty of players up there waiting to receive the ball, yet we keep passing it around and out on the wings. And when one of your wing backs is Ben Davies, needless to say you're not going to create much. It sounds banal and stupid, but we just need to work the channels more, attack more directly and get the ball to the front three sooner and take it from there. Passing it out to the wing for him to figure something out isn't working too well.
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There was a screen shot earlier which shows the issue of how far the gap is between midfield and attack
Winks can literally only pass it backwards as there is no one for a forward pass
 
glorygloryeze said:
Indeed, can anyone name more than 5 games where we've played well with verve, good passing etc (regardless of the final result) after the initial manager bounce?
Say, since the 2-0 loss to Chelsea at home before christmas?
Click to expand...

There's been one.
Leicester at home.

Mourinho is lucky there is no crowd at the games at moment.
He would have been booed off on Sunday.

But I can't see Levy sacking one of the two "top top managers in the world" anyway.
He is in thrall to him. Mourinho might have to walk to save his reputation.
 
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