Jordon Peterson

[glasgowspur]

On the subject of equal pay, what is everyone’s thoughts on Wimbledon as it’s coming up in a couple of weeks? I’m fine with men and women getting the same but the women should have to play best of 5 sets like the men do. Never mind that the mens game generates more interest and revenue than their female counterparts, it just doesn’t wash anymore to say women “can’t play 5 sets”. It’s quite anachronistic to how we have come to think of women as equal and strong and able to do everything men can do.

The prize money comes from ticket sales and sponsorship, when people start paying the same to watch women's sports then they can have the same money.

 

[glasgowspur]

Women’s tennis is improving, the level may be lower but tennis is mostly about characters and rivalries. Osaka, Fernandez, Raducanu, Swiatek etc are hope for the future. They need two players who can consistently win slams each year to have a rivalry. Watching Nadal and Djokovic bash the ball about endlessly (when some tennis did break out in between the medical timeouts and ball bouncing) wasn’t even that great to watch anyway. On the men’s side I hope Alcaraz and Shapovalov mature well as they’re the most attacking of the next gen.

Tennis and golf i would much rather watch women than men.
Both are/were games of subtlety, skill and required strategy.
The mens game in both is now more about how hard you hit it.
They bare little resemblance to the game i play.

 

[Lilbaz]

Tennis and golf i would much rather watch women than men.
Both are/were games of subtlety, skill and required strategy.
The mens game in both is now more about how hard you hit it.
They bare little resemblance to the game i play.

A little bit off subject but did you know there is one world record in track and field that will never be broken? See if you can guess what it is.

 

[glasgowspur]

A little bit off subject but did you know there is one world record in track and field that will never be broken? See if you can guess what it is.

Not a big track and field follower,, bob bemean long jump? Ed moses 400m hurdles? I think they may have gone but flo jo 100m, i doubt that will be beaten yet, although that was always a bit suspicious.
Can you guess my age from these answers

 

[Lilbaz]

Not a big track and field follower,, bob bemean long jump? Ed moses 400m hurdles? I think they may have gone but flo jo 100m, i doubt that will be beaten yet, although that was always a bit suspicious.
Can you guess my age from these answers

Lol. No javelin. Guy in the 80s threw it so far it almost landed on the track. So they changed the javelin so it couldn't be thrown so far anymore. For obvious reasons.

 

[Bullet]

Women’s tennis ...They need two players who can consistently win slams each year to have a rivalry. Watching Nadal and Djokovic bash the ball about endlessly wasn’t even that great to watch anyway. .

Huh?
So the women need 2 dominant players to form a rivalry.... but the men's game was boring because of a rivalry?

If women want equal pay for sports we can do away with genderised sports and just allow all sportspeople to compete in the same events, regardless of gender. I'm sure they will make their way to the top

 

[Mosquito_Coasting]

Huh?
So the women need 2 dominant players to form a rivalry.... but the men's game was boring because of a rivalry?

If women want equal pay for sports we can do away with genderised sports and just allow all sportspeople to compete in the same events, regardless of gender. I'm sure they will make their way to the top

I find that rivalry boring, most don’t. Many, many other tennis rivalries I enjoy/enjoyed (the majority).

 

[Daisuk]

Seems to me like a lot of people feel threatened by debates concerning the basic rights of groups they aren't part of, and it seems to me like this guy is somehow giving them a voice in a debate nobody wanted their opinion on. White middle aged men who are not content with being left behind or being made irrelevant.

That said, "my side" of this have a tendency to make fun of and attack this guy by default. I don't really get that either. I think he seems like an intelligent guy. I hope he inspires people to do good, but unfortunately it seems to inspire a lot of hate as well.

 

[glasgowspur]

Seems to me like a lot of people feel threatened by debates concerning the basic rights of groups they aren't part of, and it seems to me like this guy is somehow giving them a voice in a debate nobody wanted their opinion on. White middle aged men who are not content with being left behind or being made irrelevant.

That said, "my side" of this have a tendency to make fun of and attack this guy by default. I don't really get that either. I think he seems like an intelligent guy. I hope he inspires people to do good, but unfortunately it seems to inspire a lot of hate as well.

I think a lot of angst is that some see their rights being eroded when others rights are enabled.
We, as in society, can't seem to be able to strike a balance, someone is always aggrieved somewhere along the line.

 

[Lilbaz]

Seems to me like a lot of people feel threatened by debates concerning the basic rights of groups they aren't part of, and it seems to me like this guy is somehow giving them a voice in a debate nobody wanted their opinion on. White middle aged men who are not content with being left behind or being made irrelevant.

That said, "my side" of this have a tendency to make fun of and attack this guy by default. I don't really get that either. I think he seems like an intelligent guy. I hope he inspires people to do good, but unfortunately it seems to inspire a lot of hate as well.

Bit racist.

 

[Baleforce]

I think a lot of angst is that some see their rights being eroded when others rights are enabled.
We, as in society, can't seem to be able to strike a balance, someone is always aggrieved somewhere along the line.

I think the issue is more that some see others gaining equal rights as something being taken from them.

I’m not as familiar with Petersons work as others here, but from what I have seen, I reckon he’s a clam.

 

[DTA]

Don't blame me, I've never read or heard anything by the guy.

The only reason I know he exists is because people here bring him up and he gets mentioned (in negative terms) on an American podcast I listen to.

I meant that he is seen as right wing, and because I I tend to agree with a lot of what he says, you may have turned me

 

[Lilbaz]

I think the issue is more that some see others gaining equal rights as something being taken from them.

No. It's that it's gone too far the other way. Positive discrimination. Believe all women etc...

It should be about equality. Women, men, black white... but it's turned into something else.

 

[DTA]

The points about jobs. As @Rorschach stated, these are basic truths which are not wholesale indicators that the gender pay gap is a myth or explainable by these small sample points. Also, it’s 2022, women are at liberty to get any job they so choose irrespective of salary and whether they want to start a family. The fact they still have to consider that should be an valid argument that the pay gap exists and undermines women.

Cathy Newman is an exceptional and credible journalist who had an off day when interviewing Peterson. Unfortunately you now see videos online of it with titles like ‘JORDAN PETERSON DESTROYS WOKE VIRTUE SIGNALLING FEMINAZI’ as a homage to his brilliance. It shows the level of the audience he is attracting.

Your first paragraph. I agree completely about children playing less outdoors stunting a range of abilities that generations before them were able to nurture. That doesn’t make Peterson’s statement any more credible alongside the great works of Plato. That’s literally common sense. He’s just stating it to a larger audience than most of us.

Edit: @Jurgen the German I absolutely agree with the first sentence of your second paragraph. It’s a sad indicator of where we are as a species that someone spitting common sense 101 is regarded as one of the great minds of our time.

Cathy Newman is indeed an exceptional journalist I have admired her for a long time. She did have a complete nightmare when she interviewed Peterson though. Maybe she just underestimated him.

I agree with what you say about the SM rights reaction to the the interview though, and if I have a criticism of Jordon Peterson, it is that I don’t think he does enough to distance himself from those reactions.

in fact I would go further, I have watched a lot of his podcasts, they are genuinely interesting and expand thought when he is sat opposite people on the left or liberals etc. But when he sat opposite those on the right he doesn’t call them out nearly enough, if I can see flaws in the positions that they present to him I would expect someone of his superior learning to do so much more effectively… which he doesn’t.

that is disappointing

 

[Lilbaz]

Cathy Newman is indeed an exceptional journalist I have admired her for a long time. She did have a complete nightmare when she interviewed Peterson though. Maybe she just underestimated him.

I agree with what you say about the SM rights reaction to the the interview though, and if I have a criticism of Jordon Peterson, it is that I don’t think he does enough to distance himself from those reactions.

in fact I would go further, I have watched a lot of his podcasts, they are genuinely interesting and expand thought when he is sat opposite people on the left or liberals etc. But when he sat opposite those on the right he doesn’t call them out nearly enough, if I can see flaws in the positions that they present to him I would expect someone of his superior learning to do so much more effectively… which he doesn’t.

that is disappointing

Wouldn't that be based on your perspective though. I'm guessing you assume you are central?

 

[DTA]

Wouldn't that be based on your perspective though. I'm guessing you assume you are central?

I’m left leaning socially liberal. But I am open to his core messages and I don’t think they are right wing if I am to be honest. I think that fundamentally he espouses the virtues of some traditional values which… still have value. Just because parts of what built the west’s societies that we live in, was undoubtedly discriminatory and unjust, doesn’t mean we should dismiss all the values and wisdom that brang us to where we are today. To borrow a phrase ‘we shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water’

having said all of this, I don’t think he in the podcasts and interviews I have seen with him ‘against’ somebody on the ‘right’ he exposes the obvious flaws and questions posed by their view points like he does with liberals and those on the left. If I can see a strong counterpoint then he almost certainly does, so the question is why doesn’t he call it out.

truth is though I have only watched two podcasts he has done with those on the right, so maybe those are off days.

 

[Lilbaz]

I’m left leaning socially liberal. But I am open to his core messages and I don’t think they are right wing if I am to be honest. I think that fundamentally he espouses the virtues of some traditional values which… still have value. Just because parts of what built the west’s societies that we live in, was undoubtedly discriminatory and unjust, doesn’t mean we should dismiss all the values and wisdom that brang us to where we are today. To borrow a phrase ‘we shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water’

having said all of this, I don’t think he in the podcasts and interviews I have seen with him ‘against’ somebody on the ‘right’ he exposes the obvious flaws and questions posed by their view points like he does with liberals and those on the left. If I can see a strong counterpoint then he almost certainly does, so the question is why doesn’t he call it out.

truth is though I have only watched two podcasts he has done with those on the right, so maybe those are off days.

He's a capitalist no doubt. Often talks disparagingly of the soviet system. "We pretend to work, they pretend to pay us". But he also realises that uncontrolled capitalism has only one end. The big fish eat the small fish till there is only one fish in the pond. That both left and right should agree this is what nobody wants.

Not heard any solutions from him though.

 

[AuroRaman]

Cathy Newman is indeed an exceptional journalist I have admired her for a long time. She did have a complete nightmare when she interviewed Peterson though. Maybe she just underestimated him.

I agree with what you say about the SM rights reaction to the the interview though, and if I have a criticism of Jordon Peterson, it is that I don’t think he does enough to distance himself from those reactions.

in fact I would go further, I have watched a lot of his podcasts, they are genuinely interesting and expand thought when he is sat opposite people on the left or liberals etc. But when he sat opposite those on the right he doesn’t call them out nearly enough, if I can see flaws in the positions that they present to him I would expect someone of his superior learning to do so much more effectively… which he doesn’t.

that is disappointing

I really enjoyed his pod with Russell Brand. I know he’s not a popular figure on here but Brand has an exceptional way of getting his guests to delve into sides of themselves they might not otherwise show to the public. He even managed to make Candace Owens somewhat human which is a feat in itself!

 

[glasgowspur]

I think the issue is more that some see others gaining equal rights as something being taken from them.

I’m not as familiar with Petersons work as others here, but from what I have seen, I reckon he’s a clam.

That's certainly the case in Scotland with the gender recognition act, a lot of women feel their rights and protections are being eroded.
From the he little I've seen of peterson he strikes me as a dangerous person.
The type that stirs up trouble and walks away leaving others to clean up his mess.

 

[Baleforce]

No. It's that it's gone too far the other way. Positive discrimination. Believe all women etc...

It should be about equality. Women, men, black white... but it's turned into something else.

To what degree is it actually true that it has gone to far the other way?

I don’t think that, statically, that would stand up to scrutiny.