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Jimmy Carr tax dodger

The BMA document doesn't rebut any of the points. Just says that this was agreed in 2008 and we are worth it. No addressing of the actuarial or economic realities.
 
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Leeds Spur said:
Please show evidence of Cameron evading tax?

Amazon should be barred from trading in the UK until they comply and pay full tax.

If tax evasion wasn't so rife we wouldn't have to make the cuts, ( although modest) that we are and we could use the money to stimulate the economy via infrastructure spending. You understand that f everyone paid 2% tax the country would be utterly fudged. The whole 'it's not illegal' thing is complete flimflam. It's like inventing a drug worse than heroin and saying its fine just because they police havnt gotten round to banning it yet!! Yeah, it's legal, let's give heroin type stuff to babies!!!! What a crock of brick.
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So should Vodafone! No corporation tax paid for te last financial year = ****s
 
Leeds Spur said:
The BMA document doesn't rebut any of the points. Just says that this was agreed in 2008 and we are worth it. No addressing of the actuarial or economic realities.
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I'm not interested in the other points, they aren't related to what southstand said and aren't relevant to this particular discussion. But the 'general' taxpayer does not contribute 80% of a doctor's final pension.

I think there needs to be reform of the pensions scheme, though not in the manner the government is suggesting.

The government also needs to tread carefully here. People on this board especially love pulling out the line about how we can't tax the super rich too highly or punish the banks/bankers for their role in our current mess because then they'll all leave us and we'll become a backwater etc etc.

This is actually happening with medical students and junior doctors. The changes in the NHS, pensions scheme, EWTD etc is causing a large number of these to seriously consider working abroad instead of staying at home. Which would be a terrible shame.



Finally, I find the attitude of 'everyone who has the ability to do this would' quite disturbing. Like Leeds, my wife and I could also similarly reduce the amount of tax we pay but we don't. Morally, for us, its wrong. Stop judging everyone one by your own low standards.
 
If you want everything to be fair, everyone should be paid the same for every job and we should all have the same portion of our equal earnings go to society. That would be fair. So, regardless of whether or not you/your paymaster think/s you are a good businessman or worker (for example, some people think salesmen, of all people, should be well rewarded) you will get paid the same as a cleaner who probably works just as hard doing something vital, maybe for more hours, than someone who is an account manager or something equally pointless.

Then, the moralists would say "BUT, DEAR LORD, WHERE IS THE INCENTIVE TO SUCCEED??" And the argument to them would be: "where are your morals? Do what you are passionate about, and good at, and do your part for society by being a doctor or a teacher or a politician, or whatever it is, because that is the morally correct thing to do - help society as best as you can, regardless of salary."

In short, unless you believe we should all be paid the same wages and pay the same percentage of these wages in taxes, then I think your arguments are there to be picked apart.

The system is set up to exploit people, but it also has little nuances which can provide those interested in finding them (and prepared to take the risk of using them), a little bit of a leg up. Kind of like when someone who works no more or less hard than the average bloke on a building site, finds himself in a 100k a year job and gives himself a big, noisy pat on the back for it because he "worked so hard to be where he is," ignoring the better schooling he had, the better family support, the friends who helped him on the way, the good opportunities etc... It's all gonads. We're all as bad as each other.
 
Orbital said:
If you want everything to be fair, everyone should be paid the same for every job and we should all have the same portion of our equal earnings go to society. That would be fair. So, regardless of whether or not you/your paymaster think/s you are a good businessman or worker (for example, some people think salesmen, of all people, should be well rewarded) you will get paid the same as a cleaner who probably works just as hard doing something vital, maybe for more hours, than someone who is an account manager or something equally pointless.

Then, the moralists would say "BUT, DEAR LORD, WHERE IS THE INCENTIVE TO SUCCEED??" And the argument to them would be: "where are your morals? Do what you are passionate about, and good at, and do your part for society by being a doctor or a teacher or a politician, or whatever it is, because that is the morally correct thing to do - help society as best as you can, regardless of salary."

In short, unless you believe we should all be paid the same wages and pay the same percentage of these wages in taxes, then I think your arguments are there to be picked apart.

The system is set up to exploit people, but it also has little nuances which can provide those interested in finding them (and prepared to take the risk of using them), a little bit of a leg up. Kind of like when someone who works no more or less hard than the average bloke on a building site, finds himself in a 100k a year job and gives himself a big, noisy pat on the back for it because he "worked so hard to be where he is," ignoring the better schooling he had, the better family support, the friends who helped him on the way, the good opportunities etc... It's all gonads. We're all as bad as each other.
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Where do the job stealing illegal immigrants and the bone idle British youth fit in comrade?
 
DHSF said:
I am actually unsure how you forget a kid... a bit like Home Alone.

It isnt irresponsible its just idiotic.
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I have done it a few times including at his first game at the lane. I went into the toilet and told him to wait outside in the exact spot where i left him. The toilet was so busy i went out the other end, saw i guy a new and chatted for a minute then went up stairs to my seat, was not till i sat down i thought "oh fudge the boy"

Bless him he was still stood there but had a worried and sad look on his face. Lost him a few times but i think it breeds character because we always hook up in the end. One reason why i wanted him to board at school aside from giving me less driving to do was because i thought it would be good for his character help him become a man quicker.

I wonder if camerons daughter goes to boarding school, she did not seem bothered by it, apparently she had the common sense to make herself known to the landlord. Smart kid not some dumb idiot who can not even tie their own laces. Children are a lot more resillent then we give them credit for. I often do little tests to see how my youngin is coping.

That said i fudging hate cameron he is a traitor to the tax payers in this country how he has behaved over europe is a disgrace and he should be shot. Give me a gun and i will happily do it myself.
 
southstand1882 said:
This is CRAZY

So in actual fact, the taxpayer effectively funds 100% of these 2million pound pensions

We contribute 14% and the doctor contributes "up to" 14.5%

Tell me, how much did NHS doctor pay increase between 1997 and 2008?

This is a fudging disgrace
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It's when labour brought in a new GP payment/commissioning scheme in about 2003/04 or 04/05 that their income really shot up!
 
Forgot to mention the other day, but leedspurs can prove i have been mentioning this recently.

But one of the biggest groupss i know to do ta avoidance are the immgrants. Now some of you lefties im sure will think im being racist because i admit to being right wing and a UKIP voter.

I am freinds with quite a few latvians and know a few others as well. Infact one of my best mates has just recently gone back to lativa, i can tell you 100% that of all the immgrants i know all of them will only work here for under a year at a time and then return home and claim for the ta they have paid back.

I have sent a p45 back off to liepaja in latvia for one of my best mates to do this very thing, despite my political beliefs he is now my closet friend so i did him the favour. My point is that the east europeans are the ones i know doing this the most.

Know of 2 brothers and one will work in a factory in Chichester for 4 months and then he goes back to latvia then his brother comes over for 4 months and they do this all year. They get to claim there tax back so earn more money this way and also are consideered the best workers because they always have so much energy. I would to if i did not have to work for 4 months. Kind of unfair on the english workers who have to work the 12 hour shifts all year round and naturally get tired.

But of course you would never read anything like that in the guardian. If anyone wants details of the job agencies and factory that this happens at or the businesses in latvia that have opened up just to process returning peoples claim for ta back of the british government PM me, because im sure you will never get the true facts from the BBC or left wing media we have in this country.
 
southstand1882 said:
This is CRAZY

So in actual fact, the taxpayer effectively funds 100% of these 2million pound pensions

We contribute 14% and the doctor contributes "up to" 14.5%

Tell me, how much did NHS doctor pay increase between 1997 and 2008?

This is a fudging disgrace
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http://bma.org.uk/working-for-chang...sion/industrial-action-pensions/pensions-faqs
http://bma.org.uk/practical-support-at-work/pensions/pensions-changes-information

Medical staff renegotiated their pensions in 2008. Increased their contributions by 40%, retirement age would increase and, in the future, if the scheme started to lose, the shortfall would be made up by members.

The all-party public accounts committee found in 2011 that the 2008 reforms brought about significant savings to the taxpayer, with the scheme remaining sustainable well into the future. Up until last year, the government were saying that it was a sustainable scheme. There are other public sector schemes which require reform more and yet are not being pursued as aggressively as these are.

There still needs to be reforms for sure, mostly because the situation of the UK economy has unfortunately not really improved. But, just like the NHS reforms, this is not the way about them.

I find two things about this funny. You were not so angry about the enormous bonus Hester for example was going to receive in January (in fact, if I remember it correctly, you had no problems with it) and have in the past outlined your opposition to higher taxes for the rich or some kind of punishment for banks/bankers/big businesses who screwed this country over and in fact, continue to do so, in the fear that these people will leave us and go to another country. As I've already said, this is becoming an increasingly popular thought amongst young medical students and clinicians today. Obviously not a problem though.

And whenever some kind of article/opinion is offered on here on something similar about salaries/taxes for the rich, especially in the private sector, being too high, the same opinions are often given. British people hate success, they hate people with money, they're lazy, feckless degenerates who can't be bothered to work and who can only be jealous of those who do. The media and government have been conducting a quite excellent job on turning pubic opinion against doctors recently though, often based on incorrect figures on what the 'average' doctor earns.

As I said, more reform is needed. This is not the way about it.
 
Hootnow said:
I'm not interested in the other points, they aren't related to what southstand said and aren't relevant to this particular discussion. But the 'general' taxpayer does not contribute 80% of a doctor's final pension.

I think there needs to be reform of the pensions scheme, though not in the manner the government is suggesting.

The government also needs to tread carefully here. People on this board especially love pulling out the line about how we can't tax the super rich too highly or punish the banks/bankers for their role in our current mess because then they'll all leave us and we'll become a backwater etc etc.

This is actually happening with medical students and junior doctors. The changes in the NHS, pensions scheme, EWTD etc is causing a large number of these to seriously consider working abroad instead of staying at home. Which would be a terrible shame.



Finally, I find the attitude of 'everyone who has the ability to do this would' quite disturbing. Like Leeds, my wife and I could also similarly reduce the amount of tax we pay but we don't. Morally, for us, its wrong. Stop judging everyone one by your own low standards.
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If they want their training subsidized then they stay for 10 years. Simples.
 
parklane1 said:
And shows a lack of care



Any parent who leave a kid in a pub has no excuse for doing so whatever the details, would you leave yours?
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You don't know the details so we'll leave it there. If you care to get informed we can discuss it.

And it has zero relevance to the discussion, just another straw man to attack Cameron rather than the substance of the debate.
 
Leeds Spur said:
You don't know the details so we'll leave it there. If you care to get informed we can discuss it.

And it has zero relevance to the discussion, just another straw man to attack Cameron rather than the substance of the debate.
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Nothing to do with it Cameron mate, any parent that does not keep a eye on their kids ( at all times) especially in a pub are out of order.

I would say the same about anyone so you do not have to defend your leader to me, as much as you tend to do everytime his name crops up.
 
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