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ITK Thread

thfcsteff said:
I wanted Eze last season. He gives us several very creative options.
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A pity we didn’t take a punt on Eze for £17m when he tearing it up with QPR but guess we were still hoping Bergwijn would come good that summer he moved to Palace.

Seem crazy now that Olise’s release clause was only £8m when he was voted EFL YPotY but we ended up spending treble that on Bryan Gil instead!

 
SteveAWOL said:
A pity we didn’t take a punt on Eze for £17m when he tearing it up with QPR but guess we were still hoping Bergwijn would come good that summer he moved to Palace.

Seem crazy now that Olise’s release clause was only £8m when he was voted EFL YPotY but we ended up spending treble that on Bryan Gil instead!

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Olise is fantastic, but also needed time at Palace to step up. Was the perfect next step for him. Would we have been?

For sure one we "missed out on" along with Wharton. That will always happen. But the years of hardly trying with young talents still hurts us. Glad we're trying for more of a pokemon approach now.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
We wanted him in the summer
I’ve heard that from several clues up football guys
We thought we had it done
Palace went early and showed why
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Wharton missed 18 games / 100 days due to injury last season, dread to think how he’d have fared trying to single handed shield our CBs playing Angeball!
 
SteveAWOL said:
A pity we didn’t take a punt on Eze for £17m when he tearing it up with QPR but guess we were still hoping Bergwijn would come good that summer he moved to Palace.

Seem crazy now that Olise’s release clause was only £8m when he was voted EFL YPotY but we ended up spending treble that on Bryan Gil instead!

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So you'd prefer us to take a punt on younger players?

I dunno like yang, odobert, tel, moore, donley?
 
SteveAWOL said:
A pity we didn’t take a punt on Eze for £17m when he tearing it up with QPR but guess we were still hoping Bergwijn would come good that summer he moved to Palace.

Seem crazy now that Olise’s release clause was only £8m when he was voted EFL YPotY but we ended up spending treble that on Bryan Gil instead!

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We were interested in both
But we didn’t have a pathway into the team (something we still have issue with IMO) and others moved quicker
Shame as the talent was clear
If someone brings in big numbers in that division they will do decent in the role as a minimum
I remember saying about Bowen
Cahill was another who was bloody effective and stepped up
The championship is on par with a lot of global league because of the volume of games in front of big crowds
 
SteveAWOL said:
A pity we didn’t take a punt on Eze for £17m when he tearing it up with QPR but guess we were still hoping Bergwijn would come good that summer he moved to Palace.

Seem crazy now that Olise’s release clause was only £8m when he was voted EFL YPotY but we ended up spending treble that on Bryan Gil instead!

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Gil was another horrendous signing.
We seem to always miss out on the gems from the championship. I know we got Gray, but he cost 40 mill so not really a coup.
Look at Bowen, Eze, Wharton, Olisse, Watkins to name a few.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
But we didn’t have a pathway into the team (something we still have issue with IMO) and others moved quicker
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This has always been a challenge at Spurs. You want these younger players to fail fast or obviously succeed.

I was hoping this new wave of academy players would not suffer in the same way KWP or Japhet did and spend years ticking homegrown boxes whilst not really playing. It's perhaps too early to tell whether the 12-15 academy products will be given a chance or whether we will just keep buying more experienced bodies like Danso or extending contracts like we have with Davies.

In some ways it would have been good to deal with some of this as the subs bench has increased to 9 over the years. Having a set number of club trained or U21 players in every 20 man match day squad would have been an interesting concept.
 
Muttley said:
This has always been a challenge at Spurs. You want these younger players to fail fast or obviously succeed.

I was hoping this new wave of academy players would not suffer in the same way KWP or Japhet did and spend years ticking homegrown boxes whilst not really playing. It's perhaps too early to tell whether the 12-15 academy products will be given a chance or whether we will just keep buying more experienced bodies like Danso or extending contracts like we have with Davies.

In some ways it would have been good to deal with some of this as the subs bench has increased to 9 over the years. Having a set number of club trained or U21 players in every 20 man match day squad would have been an interesting concept.
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To some extent it's an inherent problem with where we are and where we want to be. Easier for a mid table club to give game times and a quicker path to the first team.

But it's also something we need to succeed at. Little point hoarding young talents and not play them or give them a path.

Positive signs the season that went with Bergvall and Gray in particular. Tel and Odobert getting meaningful game time.

Think and hope Frank will be good with that.
 
braineclipse said:
To some extent it's an inherent problem with where we are and where we want to be. Easier for a mid table club to give game times and a quicker path to the first team.

But it's also something we need to succeed at. Little point hoarding young talents and not play them or give them a path.

Positive signs the season that went with Bergvall and Gray in particular. Tel and Odobert getting meaningful game time.

Think and hope Frank will be good with that.
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But they aren’t the youth players
They are all acquisitions who are young
Our own youth team is developing top players but they need the next step to grow
 
Bedfordspurs said:
But they aren’t the youth players
They are all acquisitions who are young
Our own youth team is developing top players but they need the next step to grow
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Technically true but it amounts to the same thing. When you look at the ages that we got guys like Lanks, Phillips, Devine etc the club still has to the hard part and get them from 16/17 to 21/22 and into the first team environment. I always think that is the hard part. My cousin was 7 or 8 when he joined Spurs and was let go at 16. He was one of the many who couldn't get the chance to make the final passing over to mens football with the club.

I guess in some ways it feels better if Dorrington, Abbott, Donley or Scarlett make it as they really would have done the boy to man thing with the club. With a name like Luca, I can imagine the fans adoring Williams-Barnett if he makes it. Mikey is already adored.

In reality though it doesn't matter. Aaron Lennon was nicked from Leeds and we all loved the guy.
 
Muttley said:
Technically true but it amounts to the same thing. When you look at the ages that we got guys like Lanks, Phillips, Devine etc the club still has to the hard part and get them from 16/17 to 21/22 and into the first team environment. I always think that is the hard part. My cousin was 7 or 8 when he joined Spurs and was let go at 16. He was one of the many who couldn't get the chance to make the final passing over to mens football with the club.

I guess in some ways it feels better if Dorrington, Abbott, Donley or Scarlett make it as they really would have done the boy to man thing with the club. With a name like Luca, I can imagine the fans adoring Williams-Barnett if he makes it. Mikey is already adored.

In reality though it doesn't matter. Aaron Lennon was nicked from Leeds and we all loved the guy.
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My concern here has always been we have some amazing youth that needs opportunity
Poch murdered our youth set up by insisting the best stay here (seems smart at the time)
If they ain’t getting 1000 minutes for the first team we either let them go or loan them
I guarantee the ones who have been on loan come back much much more prepared for first team football here
The players we had that came through and we sold for decent money all had loans and some were not good ones
 
Bedfordspurs said:
My concern here has always been we have some amazing youth that needs opportunity
Poch murdered our youth set up by insisting the best stay here (seems smart at the time)
If they ain’t getting 1000 minutes for the first team we either let them go or loan them
I guarantee the ones who have been on loan come back much much more prepared for first team football here
The players we had that came through and we sold for decent money all had loans and some were not good ones
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I think my biggest problem has been about the 20 man match day squads and the way we have used the subs bench. I think we all know that you're damned if you don't loan players out and you're damned if you do. However, once you've made your decisions you need to commit to using the younger players in your squad. You need to be strong enough as a manager and tell the 29/30 year old that they're 21st man this week and that the 20 year old is on the bench. Also, you need to make sure the younger players on the bench get the cameos they deserve from the bench. If you're taking the easy way out and just playing your seniors, then hold yourself accountable. Multiple managers at Spurs haven't done that.

Ange didn't optimise for me. He would use 5 subs if we were winning. If we were drawing or losing, not a chance. Also, when we were winning, it was the senior players getting the sub time. Jose was way worse. He would put lesser players in the match day squad at the expense of the younger talent. I wouldn't be tough on Poch or Jose though as we had no young talent under them. I can perhaps be tough on both for the KWP treatment but can only really remember Dele and Onomah who the club gave him to use as U21s. KWP was also overrated as well. I can't really remember Jose with too many kids either. We all remember the Devine FA Cup goal I guess at 16 years old.

I think we had a way bigger issue at the time with the dearth of talent in the academy. That's not on Poch or Jose. Since then we've been buying kids like crazy and nurturing the kids that we had from a young age. Mason Melia is the most recent one I remember. It definitely feels different now.

Right now, we all could write an entire team and bench of kids that at least have a chance. It's how we manage the next stage is important. As you say, loans are fantastic preparation but when do we create the space in the first tram squad and remove the older pros?
 
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