Interim manager thread 2.0

[DeanoAustin]

Are there any tapes on social media of innocent people committing rape? They are still there for anybody to listen to who can stomach the trauma

There was no tape of Greenwood committing rape as far as I recall. There was a tape of him saying he’d rape his girlfriend if she didn’t agree to sleep with him.

 

[robp135]

Is have Greenwood playing RW for us and wouldn’t bat an eyelid

 

[billyiddo]

The evidence wasn't withdrawn. New evidence came to light that clearly undermined the case. All of the witnesses withdrew their support. That doesn't mean that the evidence they gave is withdrawn. It means they are no longer willing to stand by their statements in court. It would be speculation but i suspect the "new material" whatever it was caused both the witnessed to withdraw their support and the CPS to drop the case. We will never know what that evidence was.

"Key witness withdrew their involvement"

Given the case being that of Party A accusing Party B it's pretty clear that the above relates to the accuser being the key witness and guess what happens in that instance? A statement gets given undermining the evidence they had previously provided, hence new evidence coming to light.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

There was no tape of Greenwood committing rape as far as I recall. There was a tape of him saying he’d rape his girlfriend if she didn’t agree to sleep with him.

We also don't know the context of the tape. Some people are f*cked up. If i had to speculate on the sort of thing that could have come out that would cause all the witnesses to withdraw and the CPS to drop the case would be evidence emerging that she liked to be beaten up and asked him to talk like that to her during sex....that might be a million miles away from what happened in this case but i've seen revelations like that come out and undermine similar cases. You can never assume the context of material such as audio and video. It never exists in a vacuum. Assumptions make an ass out of you and me. ABC was key in my detective training: Accept nothing. Believe nothing. Challenge everything. Often things aren't as first seen.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

"Key witness withdrew their involvement"

Given the case being that of Party A accusing Party B it's pretty clear that the above relates to the accuser being the key witness and guess what happens in that instance? A statement gets given undermining the evidence they had previously provided, hence new evidence coming to light.

That is complete speculation. The CPS stated "the withdrawal of key witnesses and new material that came to light". Witnesses is plural. We will never know.

 

[DeanoAustin]

We also don't know the context of the tape. Some people are f*cked up. If i had to speculate on the sort of thing that could have come out that would cause all the witnesses to withdraw and the CPS to drop the case would be evidence emerging that she liked to be beaten up and asked him to talk like that to her during sex....that might be a million miles away from what happened in this case but i've seen revelations like that come out and undermine similar cases. You can never assume the context of material such as audio and video. It never exists in a vacuum. Assumptions make an ass out of you and me. ABC was key in my detective training: Accept nothing. Believe nothing. Challenge everything. Often things aren't as first seen.

I agree with your core point. We have no context for the conversation. His manner wasn’t remotely aggressive despite the sinister nature of the words. He sounded very, very laid back IIRC. That said, telling any woman you’d do that to them…I struggle with that under any circumstances.

We simply don’t know what went on though so it’s wrong to speculate.

 

[thfcsteff]

He chose to play Greenwood - that's enough for me
If Greenwood had not been convicted of a crime, and he improved the team, surely that was the RIGHT thing to do?
Not playing someone who has been accused of a crime is hardly fair. You are innocent until proven guilty.

Well, I presume you have full agreement for what the goons did with Partey then. Not me.
And based on the A/V evidence I saw, I wouldn't want a person like Mason Greenwood at my club. Sort of like I wouldn't want a person like Sean Combs at my club, or in my house, or at my place of work, because these are not good people. And before you tell me he 'wasn't charged in the end' it was because the prosecution dropped the charges due to key witnesses withdrawing their testimony...

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

I agree with your core point. We have no context for the conversation. His manner wasn’t remotely aggressive despite the sinister nature of the words. He sounded very, very laid back IIRC. That said, telling any woman you’d do that to them…I struggle with that under any circumstances.

We simply don’t know what went on though so it’s wrong to speculate.

Yeah, one thing is clear to me; they didn't have a "normal" relationship. But we do not know what was uncovered by the investigation, why the prosecution case collapsed. I wouldn't personally want Greenwood to play for Spurs, but playing him for Marseille as a manager does not for me make De Zerbi a rape enabler, chauvanist, rape apologist, or any of the other wild things being banded around.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Well, I presume you have full agreement for what the goons did with Partey then. Not me.
And based on the A/V evidence I saw, I wouldn't want a person like Mason Greenwood at my club. Sort of like I wouldn't want a person like Sean Combs at my club, or in my house, or at my place of work, because these are not good people. And before you tell me he 'wasn't charged in the end' it was because the prosecution dropped the charges due to key witnesses withdrawing their testimony...

The Partey situation is different though. There IS still an ongoing investigation. Greenwood was rightly sidelined while these serious accusations were being investigated but given there is no active criminal investigation, all charges were dropped, that is a completely different situation. Are you arguing that someone shluld be treated as an abuser and rapist for the rest of their life with no trial?

 

[billyiddo]

That is complete speculation. The CPS stated "the withdrawal of key witnesses and new material that came to light". Witnesses is plural. We will never know.

It may well be but I'm happy with my interpretation of events. I'm not expecting him to be found guilty off the back of an accusation and no supporting evidence backed up by witnesses and nor should he - for better or for worse our judicial system has a high threshold. Better, because everyone deserves a fair trial, for worse because that means sometimes some utter scumbags get off of some heinous crimes due to technicalities. However that doesn't prevent people from seeing what's what.

 

[thfcsteff]

Yeah its bizarre. Marseille own the player, they will expect De Zerbi to play him. All the evangalists on this forum...if their work colleague was accussed of beating up their girlfriend then the CPS dropped all charges, if they said to their boss "I am refusing to work with this person" what would they expect the reaction to be?

First of all, I'd refrain from saying things like 'all the evangelists on this forum'. It's pathetic. And insulting. Dial it back. Secondly, unless you have PERSONALLY been witness to a situation where a rapist/abuser gets away with it because the prosecution were forced to cease seeking a conviction based on 'witness withdrawal' then I'd be very carefuo judging individual reactions to this.
That Greenwood doesn't bother you is yours to own. Marvelous. Have at it. But slighting people who disagree in the way you did? Nah. Not having it.

 

[carl]

Yeah, one thing is clear to me; they didn't have a "normal" relationship. But we do not know what was uncovered by the investigation, why the prosecution case collapsed. I wouldn't personally want Greenwood to play for Spurs, but playing him for Marseille as a manager does not for me make De Zerbi a rape enabler, chauvanist, rape apologist, or any of the other wild things being banded around.

Yeah I find it quite pathetic to be honest. Mountains and mole hills

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

First of all, I'd refrain from saying things like 'all the evangelists on this forum'. It's pathetic. And insulting. Dial it back. Secondly, unless you have PERSONALLY been witness to a situation where a rapist/abuser gets away with it because the prosecution were forced to cease seeking a conviction based on 'witness withdrawal' then I'd be very carefuo judging individual reactions to this.
That Greenwood doesn't bother you is yours to own. Marvelous. Have at it. But slighting people who disagree in the way you did? Nah. Not having it.

No, I won't dial it back. I think trial by social media and trial by media is an extremely dangerous phenomenon. Nobody knows the full facts of the Greenwood case on here and yet want to make wild assertions over De Zerbi just because he played him as manager. THAT bothers me more than anything i have seen in multiple rape caaes.

 

[thfcsteff]

That's her perogative and says nothing to how you or i should view the man - I'm sure she is not the only rape and domestic abuse victim to forgive their partner. In fact i believe it is sadly common in relationships where there is abuse.

100% agree.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Usual suspects defending the rapist.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

It may well be but I'm happy with my interpretation of events. I'm not expecting him to be found guilty off the back of an accusation and no supporting evidence backed up by witnesses and nor should he - for better or for worse our judicial system has a high threshold. Better, because everyone deserves a fair trial, for worse because that means sometimes some utter scumbags get off of some heinous crimes due to technicalities. However that doesn't prevent people from seeing what's what.

Well i have been trained over many years not to make my mind up on limited uncontextualised material. And many years of experience have confirmed the wisdom to that approach. Would I be comfortable if one of my daughtera brought Greenwood home? Hell no. But that is far from being able to make a firm judgement on what went on and who he is as a person. And even further than being able to make a judgement on De Zerbi.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Usual suspects defending the rapist.

No one has defended Greenwood and he was never convicted of rape.

 

[thfcsteff]

No, I won't dial it back.

You won't dial back referring to anyone who disagrees with your stand as (sarcastically I'm sure 'an evangelist')? Oh I think you should.

I think trial by social media and trial by media is an extremely dangerous phenomenon.

Yeah yeah, 'trial by media indeed'...what absolute rubbish!

Nobody knows the full facts of the Greenwood case on here and yet want to make wild assertions over De Zerbi just because he played him as manager. THAT bothers me more than anything i have seen in multiple rape caaes.

I won't even say what I want to here. Needless to say, the LAST sentiment you state is appalling in my view. What should bother you 'more than anything' are the 'multiple rape cases you've seen'...honestly, what an irresponsible comment! I'd better stop...

 

[billyiddo]

Well i have been trained over many years not to make my mind up on limited uncontextualised material. And many years of experience have confirmed the wisdom to that approach. Would I be comfortable if one of my daughtera brought Greenwood home? Hell no. But that is far from being able to make a firm judgement on what went on and who he is as a person. And even further than being able to make a judgement on De Zerbi.

Yeah my bar for judging a person is not as high as yours.

 

[LutonSpurs]

No one has defended Greenwood and he was never convicted of rape.

The victim statement with the audio and video and text is enough to know how vile he is. He needs to repent and show remorse. The moment we condone this behavioir the incel culture continues to flourish. And thst culture is a danger to our society at the same level as Islamic extremism in my view.