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DeanoAustin said:
You've won one trophy in almost 100 years of international football and that was over 60 years ago and you think you should have won the last two with a different manager? This despite excellent and proven coaches like Bobby Robson, Terry Venables, Glenn Hoddle, Sven & Capello not winning a thing between them. That's a bit of a leap.

I don't like or rate Southgate but he's done a decent job. Biggest problem you have, for me, is not the manager. It's the fact you prefer the likes of Peter Reid to Glenn Hoddle, Lampard and Gerrard to Carrick etc. and aren't producing the type of midfielder that can dictate play. Rice and Philipps in midfield is a joke at that level. I guess England are also a bit sexy at this stage too given there have been so many times when they've been close only to blow it.
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Both good players but I agree, would have either Foden or Grealish alongside Rice to dictate the play.
Previous point about the managers are valid but I'd argue against Sven and Capello as they were too negative in style despite have some excellent/World class players, similar to Southgate in that respect.
Sir Bobby lost to an Argentinian side with Maradonna, an excellent Dutch side, an excellent German side.
Tezza lost to a very good German side by the smallest of margins (Gazza/Dazza toe pokes away from a golden goal).
Glenda lost to a very good Argentinian side with most of the match down to 10 men, that England side was excellent and would have been close to favourites.
Gareth has had two of the clearest routes to finals you could ever wish for, got off to a great start against a good but not great Croatia and decided to go ultra defensive for the remainder of that match. Same with the Euro final against a very good Italian side, excellent start and home advantage yet decided to go back into his shell and encourage Italy back into the game. By the end of it England were so defensive that Chiellini was rampaging down the left hand side at the grand old age of 36 even well into extra time.
He has done a decent job but nothing more.
 
Er no we weren't

England boss Gareth Southgate said he did not make any substitutions before Poland's late equaliser in their World Cup qualifier because he felt confident his side were in control of the game.

Harry Kane's long-range opener was cancelled out late on by substitute Damian Szymanski's header.

It ended England's 100% record in Group I, although they remain firmly on course to qualify for Qatar 2022.

"We were playing well, we were in control," said Southgate.

"At those moments, it's not easy to come on as a substitute and we would be taking people off for the sake of it, frankly.

"We were in total control, there was no issue, why disrupt it when you're in control?"
 
markysimmo said:
Er no we weren't

England boss Gareth Southgate said he did not make any substitutions before Poland's late equaliser in their World Cup qualifier because he felt confident his side were in control of the game.

Harry Kane's long-range opener was cancelled out late on by substitute Damian Szymanski's header.

It ended England's 100% record in Group I, although they remain firmly on course to qualify for Qatar 2022.

"We were playing well, we were in control," said Southgate.

"At those moments, it's not easy to come on as a substitute and we would be taking people off for the sake of it, frankly.

"We were in total control, there was no issue, why disrupt it when you're in control?"
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Perhaps because the opponent made 5 changes, was clearly going for it while your first 11 was still out, playing their 3rd game in a week. Fresh legs make a difference

Secondly, why doesn't he just tell all of the attacking midfielders that your only tactic get it to Kane, over and over, not for you to fanny around the opposition box.

He truly is a fudging macaron
 
DeanoAustin said:
You've won one trophy in almost 100 years of international football and that was over 60 years ago and you think you should have won the last two with a different manager? This despite excellent and proven coaches like Bobby Robson, Terry Venables, Glenn Hoddle, Sven & Capello not winning a thing between them. That's a bit of a leap.

I don't like or rate Southgate but he's done a decent job. Biggest problem you have, for me, is not the manager. It's the fact you prefer the likes of Peter Reid to Glenn Hoddle, Lampard and Gerrard to Carrick etc. and aren't producing the type of midfielder that can dictate play. Rice and Philipps in midfield is a joke at that level. I guess England are also a bit sexy at this stage too given there have been so many times when they've been close only to blow it.
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Who is the person picking Rice, Philipps & Henderson in the midfield?

You're right that it's a joke, it's entirely on Southgate.
 
Then you get crap like this from the media (Sky)

Raheem Sterling - 8
He will be criticised for failing to deliver a final ball or two, but the flip side of the same coin is that it was Sterling who time after time threatened the hosts and added menace to what was otherwise a rather bland England performance. Will be so interesting over the next month to see how often he plays for Emirates Marketing Project and, more critically, how he plays. When he takes possession and looks to penetrate rather than pass, he is twice the player
 
As a kid I was told to keep moving and never to pass to someone standing still, obviously an old fashioned idea as it appears to be the blue print for this England team. Watched this with my son so had to have sound on and it just amazes me how the so called experts tell us Kane should stay in the middle and he will get the service to score, like from who? Sterling cant pass and Mount wants to play keep ball with Grealish. No criticism of him coming back to score thought.
 
and nobody has mentioned it but Lee Dixon is a hampton !!
he literally does all he can to slag off Kane, no credit for his goal last night and is one of the idiots banging on about him staying in the middle and not dropping to create, etc
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
As a kid I was told to keep moving and never to pass to someone standing still, obviously an old fashioned idea as it appears to be the blue print for this England team. Watched this with my son so had to have sound on and it just amazes me how the so called experts tell us Kane should stay in the middle and he will get the service to score, like from who? Sterling cant pass and Mount wants to play keep ball with Grealish. No criticism of him coming back to score thought.
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I hate watching England ( probably should say they bore me), all this side to side passing and going back rather then forward. It seems to me to be a curse on a lot of football in todays game and its getting worse.
 
scaramanga said:
Who is the person picking Rice, Philipps & Henderson in the midfield?

You're right that it's a joke, it's entirely on Southgate.
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What are Southgate's alternatives? The problem at the moment is that you aren't producing that sort of player. I wouldn't play Rice and Phillips together but I'm not sure who the best alterative is. I did have high hopes for Winks to be that player but he just hasn't kicked on. As much as I hate the little prick, Wheelchair had the potential too.

The joke was Bobby Robson leaving Hoddle out of the team for lads who couldn't lace his boots. Or Sven for shoehorning Gerrard and Lampard into midfield when they never worked together for very obvious reasons while Michael Carrick watched from the bench and Paul Scholes was watching from the left wing. A criminal waste of four brilliant talents because all of them underachieved for England.

I don't like Southgate's midfield but I don't see many great options for him either.
 
DeanoAustin said:
What are Southgate's alternatives? The problem at the moment is that you aren't producing that sort of player. I wouldn't play Rice and Phillips together but I'm not sure who the best alterative is. I did have high hopes for Winks to be that player but he just hasn't kicked on. As much as I hate the little prick, Wheelchair had the potential too.

The joke was Bobby Robson leaving Hoddle out of the team for lads who couldn't lace his boots. Or Sven for shoehorning Gerrard and Lampard into midfield when they never worked together for very obvious reasons while Michael Carrick watched from the bench and Paul Scholes was watching from the left wing. A criminal waste of four brilliant talents because all of them underachieved for England.

I don't like Southgate's midfield but I don't see many great options for him either.
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Never will when you sack managers every 3 years, no one can have forward planning, every club buys foreign play makers rather than develop them. Too many young players now are athletes and although many have good teqhnices they must fit a system, dont take chances, play the easy ball, keep to the play book. People take the tinkle out of Harry Redknapp and his run around a bit, but a bit more trust in players to play with creativity would be better than the usual 2 minutes of showing the sub what he MUST do. Coaching is killing football as a spectacle. England must have played some fantastic football as their possession stats proved how good (sic) they were.
 
DeanoAustin said:
You've won one trophy in almost 100 years of international football and that was over 60 years ago and you think you should have won the last two with a different manager? This despite excellent and proven coaches like Bobby Robson, Terry Venables, Glenn Hoddle, Sven & Capello not winning a thing between them. That's a bit of a leap.

I don't like or rate Southgate but he's done a decent job. Biggest problem you have, for me, is not the manager. It's the fact you prefer the likes of Peter Reid to Glenn Hoddle, Lampard and Gerrard to Carrick etc. and aren't producing the type of midfielder that can dictate play. Rice and Philipps in midfield is a joke at that level. I guess England are also a bit sexy at this stage too given there have been so many times when they've been close only to blow it.
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Did any of them previous managers you mentioned have the types of runs Southgate did in the world cups and euro's?
 
Sterling is a huge problem, as he sees passing as a last resort.

He'll just keep going, head down, missing several opportunities to make the key pass until its too late, threat is over and he grudgingly taps it back to our fullback, or he loses the ball.
 
markysimmo said:
Then you get crap like this from the media (Sky)

Raheem Sterling - 8
He will be criticised for failing to deliver a final ball or two, but the flip side of the same coin is that it was Sterling who time after time threatened the hosts and added menace to what was otherwise a rather bland England performance. Will be so interesting over the next month to see how often he plays for Emirates Marketing Project and, more critically, how he plays. When he takes possession and looks to penetrate rather than pass, he is twice the player
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That would probably mean a 16 out of 10 rating from Sky too.
 
Yiddo said:
Did any of them previous managers you mentioned have the types of runs Southgate did in the world cups and euro's?
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Who did Robson play in 1990 that were top class? They were lucky to get by a decent (but no better) Belgium team with the last kick in ET, they struggled past Cameroon with 2 pens AET. They certainly didn't set the group alight.
Likewise in Euro 96. You could argue that Switzerland and Scotland were ordinary, the Holland game was a great performance but they were in disarray at the time and England were very, very lucky to get by Spain on pens.

Yet Venables and Robson are venerated for both getting to a semi each while Southgate is getting brick for getting to a semi final and final.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Who did Robson play in 1990 that were top class? They were lucky to get by a decent (but no better) Belgium team with the last kick in ET, they struggled past Cameroon with 2 pens AET. They certainly didn't set the group alight.
Likewise in Euro 96. You could argue that Switzerland and Scotland were ordinary, the Holland game was a great performance but they were in disarray at the time and England were very, very lucky to get by Spain on pens.

Yet Venables and Robson are venerated for both getting to a semi each while Southgate is getting brick for getting to a semi final and final.
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I tend to agree with you over that, my biggest moan about Southgate is the way we play ( ie passing for the sake of it and going backwards a lot). I find that watching England under him is generally boring and i have lost interest because of that. Sad to say that is the way a lot of teams in the Prem play as well.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Who did Robson play in 1990 that were top class? They were lucky to get by a decent (but no better) Belgium team with the last kick in ET, they struggled past Cameroon with 2 pens AET. They certainly didn't set the group alight.
Likewise in Euro 96. You could argue that Switzerland and Scotland were ordinary, the Holland game was a great performance but they were in disarray at the time and England were very, very lucky to get by Spain on pens.

Yet Venables and Robson are venerated for both getting to a semi each while Southgate is getting brick for getting to a semi final and final.
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Probably because football was more open and was a better watch. I still remember going to the opening game of the 1966 finals and seeing Uruguay playing for a draw, I'd never seen that in an international before even N. Ireland and Wales came to Wembley to win in those days.
 
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