I liked Erik Lamela before it was cool

[Maltese Falcon]

Try watching a game without a pre-conceived bias against one of your spacegoats, and you will be amazed how different you will see it...

Right back at you, mate...

 

[Jordinho]

You don't like townsend but please shut up with these ludicrous statements. Lamela was the worst player on the park - in the first 30mins he didn't keep possession once, didn't improve and slowed down our attacks lost the ball and was a compete idiot.

I've never seen townsend lose the ball as much as that. Utterly woeful performance. Fed up

You've obviously not seen Townsend play.

 

[SpursNorway]

He improved in the second half, kept it simple, was running a lot - and was unlucky not to get a goal. His determination and nicely timed pass before Harry scored his 20th of the season, was very good to see. Here's for hoping Lamela can get a run in the side, and get some much needed confidence.

 

[DubaiSpur]

He improved in the second half, kept it simple, was running a lot - and was unlucky not to get a goal. His determination and nicely timed pass before Harry scored his 20th of the season, was very good to see. Here's for hoping Lamela can get a run in the side, and get some much needed confidence.

Desperately hoped he'd score that one on one with Krul - that more than anything would have helped the lad right now.

 

[braineclipse]

As I've already said I thought he improved a lot in the second half, primarily he stopped giving the ball away so damned easily/often.

Checked to see if the stats would back that up or if it was just my perception. Whoscored.com (http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/82...-Saudi Sportswashing Machine-United-Tottenham) has him with 12 losses of possession in total, for reference of the front 4 Kane had 12, Chadli 1 and Eriksen 8. 10 of those 12 losses of possession for Lamela came in the first half.

I will continue to claim that he was quite a bit better in the second.

As before some of Lamlea's problem (imo) seems to be picking when to take more high risk options and when to keep it lower risk. Think perhaps he was trying to do too much too soon in the first half and lacked the composure to just keep the ball moving instead. Settled down a bit second half.

I would, without a doubt, most definitely, keep him in the team next week if it was my decision.

 

[Raziel]

He's in the same boat as Soldado .. it just isn't going to come good for him with us .. we need to accept it, move on, put him out of his misery

 

[Spurmac1974]

He's a dud simple as, against better opposition he would have cost us 2 goals. Brutal player who epitiomises the Baldini era/error

 

[billyiddo]

As I've already said I thought he improved a lot in the second half, primarily he stopped giving the ball away so damned easily/often.

Checked to see if the stats would back that up or if it was just my perception. Whoscored.com (http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/82...-Saudi Sportswashing Machine-United-Tottenham) has him with 12 losses of possession in total, for reference of the front 4 Kane had 12, Chadli 1 and Eriksen 8. 10 of those 12 losses of possession for Lamela came in the first half.

I will continue to claim that he was quite a bit better in the second.

As before some of Lamlea's problem (imo) seems to be picking when to take more high risk options and when to keep it lower risk. Think perhaps he was trying to do too much too soon in the first half and lacked the composure to just keep the ball moving instead. Settled down a bit second half.

I would, without a doubt, most definitely, keep him in the team next week if it was my decision.

Thanks for finding the stats Braineclipse - i think Lamela losing possession stands out more to some people for some reason, confirmation bias maybe? Kane gave the ball away as much (give or take) which hasn't got a mention since the game or during (from what i saw of the OMT)

 

[braineclipse]

Thanks for finding the stats Braineclipse - i think Lamela losing possession stands out more to some people for some reason, confirmation bias maybe? the other players gave the ball away as much (give or take) which hasn't got a mention since the game or during (from what i saw of the OMT)

No problem.

Probably something to do with confirmation bias as quite a few have given up on Lamela some time ago and just want him out of the club. I also think it's partly because so many of those mistakes came in the first half, and relatively early in the first half. So minds get made up, "Lamela is crap today" and it's difficult to change that opinion without something spectacular happening. That I think is the same for most players, if you have a poor first half and a decent second half it's very easy to just keep the opinion that the player was poor throughout.

 

[Raziel]

He won't be here next season, just not good enough ..

Has nothing to do with bias, go watch that game again, see if you can find 1 Spurs player who had a poorer game, just 1 ...

 

[Maltese Falcon]

Thanks for finding the stats Braineclipse - i think Lamela losing possession stands out more to some people for some reason, confirmation bias maybe? Kane gave the ball away as much (give or take) which hasn't got a mention since the game or during (from what i saw of the OMT)

Let me just say that this is not about Lamela as such... I made my points clear enough.

But I find it almost hilarious that people nowadays almost instinctively need to come out with stats to prove or disprove a point... I guess it's all the effect of Football Manager and the likes.

You know what they say: Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics.

Stats will say that Lamela provided the assist to Kane's third goal; they will not say that the real intervention was Mason's excellent headed clearance, they will not say that Mason then had the presence of mind to follow it up, winning the chase for the ball against two Barcodes in the process; they will not say that Mason played the ball perfectly to Lamela who had Kane in acres of space and, as someone else said earlier, had the easiest pass to Kane yet hesitated for a split second such that Harry would have been offside had he not had the presence of mind to check his run for an instant.

What happened to evaluating a player on what you see in front of your eyes?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The reason they stand out is because there stupid losses of the ball. In ten grist half today he ran no more tan three years a before hitting a player

He doesn't lose the ball trying some skill, he loses it just running into a player. That's poor awareness not technique

He had a much better second half but he others the threat of a sponge

Unfortunately we have so few options in those positions. Chadli wa poor today but still impacted the game with a goal. That's a good sign. Lamella did get an assist granted but in the context of the game he did more wrong than right to start with and got better (but couldn't be worse)

 

[Maltese Falcon]

The reason they stand out is because there stupid losses of the ball. In ten grist half today he ran no more tan three years a before hitting a player

He doesn't lose the ball trying some skill, he loses it just running into a player. That's poor awareness not technique

He had a much better second half but he others the threat of a sponge

Unfortunately we have so few options in those positions. Chadli wa poor today but still impacted the game with a goal. That's a good sign. Lamella did get an assist granted but in the context of the game he did more wrong than right to start with and got better (but couldn't be worse)

That took some work to understand but you are absolutely right

As for the options, the game was crying for him to subbed for Yedlin at half time, go three at the back with advanced wing backs. But unfortunately Poch seems to have a real stubborn streak in him... though all's well that ends well.

 

[billyiddo]

Let me just say that this is not about Lamela as such... I made my points clear enough.

But I find it almost hilarious that people nowadays almost instinctively need to come out with stats to prove or disprove a point... I guess it's all the effect of Football Manager and the likes.

You know what they say: Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics.

Stats will say that Lamela provided the assist to Kane's third goal; they will not say that the real intervention was Mason's excellent headed clearance, they will not say that Mason then had the presence of mind to follow it up, winning the chase for the ball against two Barcodes in the process; they will not say that Mason played the ball perfectly to Lamela who had Kane in acres of space and, as someone else said earlier, had the easiest pass to Kane yet hesitated for a split second such that Harry would have been offside had he not had the presence of mind to check his run for an instant.

What happened to evaluating a player on what you see in front of your eyes?

The reasons stats get used is that when there is a clash of opinions on a subjective topic such as how has a player played it can add weight to an argument - Braineclipse has expressed an opinion and then sought the stats which support his argument.

 

[braineclipse]

Let me just say that this is not about Lamela as such... I made my points clear enough.

But I find it almost hilarious that people nowadays almost instinctively need to come out with stats to prove or disprove a point... I guess it's all the effect of Football Manager and the likes.

You know what they say: Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics.

Stats will say that Lamela provided the assist to Kane's third goal; they will not say that the real intervention was Mason's excellent headed clearance, they will not say that Mason then had the presence of mind to follow it up, winning the chase for the ball against two Barcodes in the process; they will not say that Mason played the ball perfectly to Lamela who had Kane in acres of space and, as someone else said earlier, had the easiest pass to Kane yet hesitated for a split second such that Harry would have been offside had he not had the presence of mind to check his run for an instant.

What happened to evaluating a player on what you see in front of your eyes?

On one end there's those that place way too much trust in simple footballing statistics without reason or rationality. On the other end of the spectrum there's those that will deny the usefulness of almost any statistic beyond goals scored in football and claim that people should just watch the game instead.

To me at least a much more solid is somewhere in between. Somewhere where stats are used to test opinions formed when watching a game and used as part of an overall point backed both by observation and statistics.

No one in this thread has attempted to prove or disprove anything based on Lamela's assist today. The person that keeps mentioning it seems to be you, and apparently only to bring up that it wasn't particularly good... Faced with me bringing up a different stat, as part of an overall argument based not only on stats and partly based on what I saw in the game you choose to rather bring up the assist no one is actually using for the purpose you're complaining about.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

The reasons stats get used is that when there is a clash of opinions on a subjective topic such as how has a player played it can add weight to an argument - Braineclipse has expressed an opinion and then sought the stats which support his argument.

Exactly; and I'm sure that, if I bothered, I could find an equal amount - probably greater number because whatever way you look at it, Lamela was simply crap today - of stats that would support my position... Hence my point about lies, damned lies and statistics.

 

[billyiddo]

Exactly; and I'm sure that, if I bothered, I could find an equal amount - probably greater number because whatever way you look at it, Lamela was simply crap today - of stats that would support my position... Hence my point about lies, damned lies and statistics.

Well don't expect such a discussion to go anywhere if you can't be bothered to support your claims and ignore those that do.

 

[Modric THFC]

If the player is sensible he will be looking for a move away this summer. And Poch will not be the one looking to stand in his way. Its all down to what price Levy will accept.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

Well don't expect such a discussion to go anywhere if you can't be bothered to support your claims and ignore those that do.

I don't play Football Manager...

To me, seeing a player run two yards and then lose the ball to the opponent, once... twice... three times... four times.... continuous for a whole half, is more than enough.

 

[scaramanga]

You don't like townsend but please shut up with these ludicrous statements. Lamela was the worst player on the park - in the first 30mins he didn't keep possession once, didn't improve and slowed down our attacks lost the ball and was a compete idiot.

I've never seen townsend lose the ball as much as that. Utterly woeful performance. Fed up

So even on an off day he gets an assist? And this is bad?

I can think of at least one of our forward players who'd probably give one of his balls to regularly get assists on his good days.