I liked Erik Lamela before it was cool

[Bonsaiboy]

Calm down Bonsaiboy and stop being a blind Fanboy. Both players have their strengths and weaknesses and despite all the talk of Townsend's striking ability, he still has nowhere near the amount of goals he should have from the shots on goal he has taken.

Townsend has technique I'll agree, but even if you have all the technique in the world, without a decent footballing brain you are nothing. Townsend is an example of a player who suffers from this crippling ailment, Lamela for all the hate he gets from you does not and it is a reason why he is favoured by Poch. Townsend is an instincive player, he does what he has no doubt been encouraged and trained to do, which is to beat a man. Unfortunately all to often he takes that option before assessing all the team's options and it can lead to moves breaking down. Even in that video above he makes poor decision's where he takes on shots and dribbles where a simple pass to a better positioned player was on.

I totally agree about Townsend and he perhaps has a Wayne Routledge/Adam Johnson/Stuart Downing glass ceiling he'll never exceed, but I'd take him ahead of Lamela any day until we have better and he deserves a run in the team ahead of him.

I just think he's liable to affect a football game on a more regular basis and I'm just pointing out some of Lamela's limitations, which people are welcome to provide counter evidence in his favour rather than, as africanspurs pointed, constantly putting down Townsend. All I'm doing is trying to readdress the balance.

 

[NWND]

I totally agree about Townsend and he perhaps has a Wayne Routledge/Adam Johnson/Stuart Downing glass ceiling he'll never exceed, but I'd take him ahead of Lamela any day until we have better and he deserves a run in the team ahead of him.

I just think he's liable to affect a football game on a more regular basis and I'm just pointing out some of Lamela's limitations, which people are welcome to provide counter evidence in his favour rather than, as africanspurs pointed, constantly putting down Townsend. All I'm doing is trying to readdress the balance.

You're not trying to redress any balance though are you? You came into the Lamela thread after he's scored, played his best game for Spurs in order to pretty much claim the guy can't even play football and claim that Townsend, a guy who has not even come close to having a game in the PL for Spurs like Lamela did yesterday, is a superior player in almost every respect and that not only that, that he has technique that Lamela can't emulate.

Basically, you're just being a dingdong.

 

[Bonsaiboy]

You're not trying to redress any balance though are you? You came into the Lamela thread after he's scored, played his best game for Spurs in order to pretty much claim the guy can't even play football and claim that Townsend, a guy who has not even come close to having a game in the PL for Spurs like Lamela did yesterday, is a superior player in almost every respect and that not only that, that he has technique that Lamela can't emulate.

Basically, you're just being a dingdong.

No, I'm making a rationale, evidence based argument that Townsend, despite not being pretty and Argentinian, is a more effective footballer in the Premier League - show me some counter evidence of Lamela striking a football low and hard - or even just hard, or with his right foot, or producing a quality right footed cross.

You have stated Townsend has never had a PL game like Lamela did yesterday, where he scored a goal. I will point to QPR Vs Sunderland where Townsend scored an great individual goal and assisted 2 others as a superior game to Lamela's yesterday.

 

[Seedy Ron]

I used to wonder before I joined this site why other fans call Spurs fans fickle. Soldado scores but he came close to missing so that's not good enough, and now we see Lamela scoring a great goal but he shouldn't of started and doesn't have varied enough types of shot?! Honestly...

:lol: It's pretty amazing isn't it.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Its very well striking a football hard, but if it only ends up on target 1 out of 20 times, that's not good enough. Townsend shows flashes of quality. Mostly in European games and mostly when there is space to drive into. With space to run he's awesome, if a little too eager to show his worth and therefore wasteful. Townsend is hungry we should give him that. He really wants it. There isn't a gargantuan difference between the two, but there is enough of a difference in Lamela's favour for me. He's a more rounded player, younger and currently deserves his place. Based upon yesterdays performance and previous games where you can see his ability if not end product.

Mr Bons if you can't accept Lamela's high level of performance yesterday, I would ask if you really are as rational and evidence based as you think you are.

There are some parallels between the two, both trying too hard to show how good they are. Both lacking some end product and both being exciting prospects. But just because of Lamela's price tag and nationality, you're not really looking at them on a level playing field.

 

[braineclipse]

No, I'm making a rationale, evidence based argument that Townsend, despite not being pretty and Argentinian, is a more effective footballer in the Premier League - show me some counter evidence of Lamela striking a football low and hard - or even just hard, or with his right foot, or producing a quality right footed cross.

You have stated Townsend has never had a PL game like Lamela did yesterday, where he scored a goal. I will point to QPR Vs Sunderland where Townsend scored an great individual goal and assisted 2 others as a superior game to Lamela's yesterday.

As a fan of rationality I would like to point out that vacuous accusations about biases based on looks or nationality are far removed from what you think it is.

As a fan of balance when appropriate, I must point out that I think you have a problem with your reading comprehension if you think this place has been overly positive about Lamela this season.

Speaking of reading comprehension, you've seemingly misread NWND's request. He was talking about PL games for Tottenham, he never mentioned scoring. You're arguing against straw men and you're doing so poorly.

I can't see anyone claiming that Lamela doesn't have weaknesses.

 

[Bonsaiboy]

As a fan of rationality I would like to point out that vacuous accusations about biases based on looks or nationality are far removed from what you think it is.

As a fan of balance when appropriate, I must point out that I think you have a problem with your reading comprehension if you think this place has been overly positive about Lamela this season.

Speaking of reading comprehension, you've seemingly misread NWND's request. He was talking about PL games for Tottenham, he never mentioned scoring. You're arguing against straw men and you're doing so poorly.

I can't see anyone claiming that Lamela doesn't have weaknesses.

As I said earlier, my opinion on Lamela hasn't changed in a year, him, and Soldado, have been VERY bad buys and we should be looking to sell them on and cut our losses. I don't think anyone can accuse me of being fickle in that regard. Either of them scoring the odd goal here and there isn't going to change their overall dire performances since being here.

I think a lot of fans are infatuated with the notion of both players. It's like a beautiful girl you're in love with but she's been ignoring you for a year and then one day she smiles at you and you think, "yes! I have a chance." But if you think about it rationally you realise that isn't true, and the same is true of Lamela, the posts about him have been negative of late because he's been dreadful game in, game out, then one good moment and the delusion returns to some fans - and the manager it seems. I'm a Poch fan and was the first to suggest his name when AVB went, but he may have a comradely blind spot with Lamela.

I want Tottenham to win football matches and I still think we have a shot at the top 4, and going forward, to Leicester for example, I see the winning of football matches better accomplished without Lamela and Soldado - although the latter we have to use due to lack other options.

 

[NWND]

No, I'm making a rationale, evidence based argument that Townsend, despite not being pretty and Argentinian, is a more effective footballer in the Premier League - show me some counter evidence of Lamela striking a football low and hard - or even just hard, or with his right foot, or producing a quality right footed cross.

You have stated Townsend has never had a PL game like Lamela did yesterday, where he scored a goal. I will point to QPR Vs Sunderland where Townsend scored an great individual goal and assisted 2 others as a superior game to Lamela's yesterday.

Townsend was good for QPR, I'll give you that. But it takes a different mentality to do it for a club like Spurs where there are expectations that we will dominate and win most games, particularly at home. Townsend has clearly struggled in the spot-light at home and away for Spurs in the PL. Lamela has largely as well. The difference being that Townsend has often struggled in the cup games as well, whereas Lamela has up till this point left his good performances for the cups. However, Lamela has had games for Spurs in the PL such as QPR and Burnley at home this season, which Townsend has yet to emulate in a Spurs shirt. That's not to say he doesn't have the ability to do so, but so far, Lamela looks the superior player IMO and the superior prospect to boot.

I just question your need to come into the Lamela thread on the back of the game yesterday, knowing full well there will be some long-needed praise of the boy, to fill it with ridiculously OTT claims about how bad Lamela is, including your ridiculous claim that one of the brightest Argentinian prospects of his generation (as that was what he was talked as all the way through every age group up till his move to Spurs) was 'unable to strike through a football'.

I'm calling you out as a troll. Not just any old troll, a massive fat troll that sits under a big bridge scoffing goat-burgers and farting goat-**** into the forum-river below.

 

[braineclipse]

As I said earlier, my opinion on Lamela hasn't changed in a year, him, and Soldado, have been VERY bad buys and we should be looking to sell them on and cut our losses. I don't think anyone can accuse me of being fickle in that regard. Either of them scoring the odd goal here and there isn't going to change their overall dire performances since being here.

I think a lot of fans are infatuated with the notion of both players. It's like a beautiful girl you're in love with but she's been ignoring you for a year and then one day she smiles at you and you think, "yes! I have a chance." But if you think about it rationally you realise that isn't true, and the same is true of Lamela, the posts about him have been negative of late because he's been dreadful game in, game out, then one good moment and the delusion returns to some fans - and the manager it seems. I'm a Poch fan and was the first to suggest his name when AVB went, but he may have a comradely blind spot with Lamela.

I want Tottenham to win football matches and I still think we have a shot at the top 4, and going forward, to Leicester for example, I see the winning of football matches better accomplished without Lamela and Soldado - although the latter we have to use due to lack other options.

So you made your mind up on a 21 year old foreign import after 2-3 starts in the league in his first season after no pre-season for the team playing for us when we were clearly struggling. Good for you.

Make all the analogies you want, it doesn't make your point any stronger. There might be individual fans that prefer foreign imports over home-grown players, but the idea that as a group Spurs fans don't rate or like home grown players makes no sense to me. It certainly doesn't seem like it's true for a majority of posters on here, if it's true for any at all it's a very small minority.

There were calls for us to give up on Lamela and others this summer. There have been plenty of negative posts about him almost throughout his career here, at least when he's been playing. The positive posts about him have largely been about his talent, his potential, his work rate and some progress. There have been expectations of him improving. Some positivity after him playing well and getting his first league goal is not a knee jerk reaction.

I agree we're still in with a shout for 4th, have thought so all along. Everyone wants us to win football matches. Everyone thinks this is better accomplished by playing the players they rate the highest.

I haven't called you fickle, I will say that you seem extremely impatient with Lamela though. And for someone who previously highlighted the importance of playing football to know what you're talking about you're special pleading away the opinions of plenty of previous footballers and current football managers when you claim he doesn't even really have potential.

 

[Bullet]

Some of his Roma goals were headers. And a right foot tap in. And a couple of left foot volleys. A few like his Burnley strike

[video=youtube;7PvO53MgYj8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PvO53MgYj8[/video]

 

[Bonsaiboy]

Townsend was good for QPR, I'll give you that. But it takes a different mentality to do it for a club like Spurs where there are expectations that we will dominate and win most games, particularly at home. Townsend has clearly struggled in the spot-light at home and away for Spurs in the PL. Lamela has largely as well. The difference being that Townsend has often struggled in the cup games as well, whereas Lamela has up till this point left his good performances for the cups. However, Lamela has had games for Spurs in the PL such as QPR and Burnley at home this season, which Townsend has yet to emulate in a Spurs shirt. That's not to say he doesn't have the ability to do so, but so far, Lamela looks the superior player IMO and the superior prospect to boot.

I just question your need to come into the Lamela thread on the back of the game yesterday, knowing full well there will be some long-needed praise of the boy, to fill it with ridiculously OTT claims about how bad Lamela is, including your ridiculous claim that one of the brightest Argentinian prospects of his generation (as that was what he was talked as all the way through every age group up till his move to Spurs) was 'unable to strike through a football'.

I'm calling you out as a troll. Not just any old troll, a massive fat troll that sits under a big bridge scoffing goat-burgers and farting goat-**** into the forum-Hypocolius below.

You're calling me a troll because you have no counter arguments. I'm being very clear about my opinion of Lamela. I don't rate the guy, he's a 10 million pound footballer in my opinion and I've tried to articulate why that is my belief. He had a decent game yesterday, a decent first half at least, which will probably earn him a start next week - a game I'd rather see Townsend or Lennon starting, this is my opinion which I'm expressing.

Ok, I'm going to agree to never post on the Lamela thread again, because, to be brutally honest, I don't have anything good to say about the guy and feel aggrieved we spunked away a third of the Bale Millions on him. And by the lack of reaction to his goal yesterday, I think a lot of the players themselves think that too.

 

[milo]

You're calling me a troll because you have no counter arguments. I'm being very clear about my opinion of Lamela. I don't rate the guy, he's a 10 million pound footballer in my opinion and I've tried to articulate why that is my belief. He had a decent game yesterday, a decent first half at least, which will probably earn him a start next week - a game I'd rather see Townsend or Lennon starting, this is my opinion which I'm expressing.

Ok, I'm going to agree to never post on the Lamela thread again, because, to be brutally honest, I don't have anything good to say about the guy and feel aggrieved we spunked away a third of the Bale Millions on him. And by the lack of reaction to his goal yesterday, I think a lot of the players themselves think that too.

Confirmation bias always tickles me

 

[NWND]

You're calling me a troll because you have no counter arguments. I'm being very clear about my opinion of Lamela. I don't rate the guy, he's a 10 million pound footballer in my opinion and I've tried to articulate why that is my belief. He had a decent game yesterday, a decent first half at least, which will probably earn him a start next week - a game I'd rather see Townsend or Lennon starting, this is my opinion which I'm expressing.

Ok, I'm going to agree to never post on the Lamela thread again, because, to be brutally honest, I don't have anything good to say about the guy and feel aggrieved we spunked away a third of the Bale Millions on him. And by the lack of reaction to his goal yesterday, I think a lot of the players themselves think that too.

Why should I respond to stupid posts like 'Lamela can't strike through a football' or 'he only has one kind of shot'. There are legitimate criticisms of Lamela's game, such as his decision making, his over complicating but instead of concentrating on those when he shows them, you prefer the ridiculous and clearly untrue. Therefore you're a troll.

 

[The egyptian]

I can't see where is rational in attacking a player after a good match. Not me and not any one here said that he is our hero now, and that we dramatically depend on him from now and onwards. He has a decent match and we HOPE he will build on it, that's all. I perfer lennon -because of the width issue- to both lamela and Townsend but if Lamela can build on his performance in Burnely game the club will benfit, and this makes me optimistic.

 

[africanspurs]

There are only 11 places up for grabs, if you're not playing Lamela who would you play? Townsend can develop and has had one or two really good performances, but if you're telling me Townsend has an accurate shot, or can dribble as comfortably as Lamela, then I would question your powers of observation.

you are going to question it then cause i do think townsend has a short that goes on target enough times to say that he is decent at it...and i do think townsend can get round player with relative comfort

the bit the strikes me as odd is the notiion that lamela can get round players comfortably....that is mistaken IMO.

 

[Raziel]

you are going to question it then cause i do think townsend has a short that goes on target enough times to say that he is decent at it...and i do think townsend can get round player with relative comfort

the bit the strikes me as odd is the notiion that lamela can get round players comfortably....that is mistaken IMO.

Not jumping in the Townsend/Lamela debate .. but to your piece AS

I actually think Lamela can beat 1 or 2 players quite comfortably, Burnley's LB had nightmares with him. Lamela's problem is he tries to take on 3 or 4 and runs into a wall, if he stays wide and can be isolated against a single player, I think he will beat that player comfortably most times.

 

[braineclipse]

You're calling me a troll because you have no counter arguments. I'm being very clear about my opinion of Lamela. I don't rate the guy, he's a 10 million pound footballer in my opinion and I've tried to articulate why that is my belief. He had a decent game yesterday, a decent first half at least, which will probably earn him a start next week - a game I'd rather see Townsend or Lennon starting, this is my opinion which I'm expressing.

Ok, I'm going to agree to never post on the Lamela thread again, because, to be brutally honest, I don't have anything good to say about the guy and feel aggrieved we spunked away a third of the Bale Millions on him. And by the lack of reaction to his goal yesterday, I think a lot of the players themselves think that too.

Townsend was so good against Saudi Sportswashing Machine that not playing him yesterday you see as some real injustice by Poch. But Lamela was "decent" yesterday? Even apart from the goal, which was really nice, I thought Lamela was significantly better against Burnley than Townsend was against Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

I'm glad you realize that you have your own biases about Lamela instead of just shouting about the perceived biases in others.

 

[braineclipse]

you are going to question it then cause i do think townsend has a short that goes on target enough times to say that he is decent at it...and i do think townsend can get round player with relative comfort

the bit the strikes me as odd is the notiion that lamela can get round players comfortably....that is mistaken IMO.

I do think Townsend is a good player, not quite suited to us perhaps and he really needs to improve quickly. But not a bad player by any standard for me.

Problem for me with his shooting is that too often he ends up taking too many touches and it's obvious that a shot is coming. His touch lets him down or he's too head down and easy to read and so even though he has a good shot too often it's blocked or rushed because he's being closed down.

Lamela's goal yesterday: He does take quite a few touches, but he's moving into a good area and finding space. He's looking up to see what's happening around him, if there was a run I think he spots it, he takes the shot with space to actually get it on goal with purpose (like he did with his similar shot). It's not as easy for the defenders to know what's happening and stop it.

Not jumping in the Townsend/Lamela debate .. but to your piece AS

I actually think Lamela can beat 1 or 2 players quite comfortably, Burnley's LB had nightmares with him. Lamela's problem is he tries to take on 3 or 4 and runs into a wall, if he stays wide and can be isolated against a single player, I think he will beat that player comfortably most times.

Agreed. It's about space and movement. Finding Lamela in space closer to the box than we've previously managed and having movement around him.

Walker provides a ton of movement, as does Kane and Eriksen. I was less impressed with Ade in that regard previously this season (but let's not go there).

This was also only the second game against lower half opposition where Mason and Bentaleb started. The first was Palace and we looked dead on our feet, in this one Bentaleb was a bit meh by his high standards, but we're better at finding the right passes to creative players like Lamela with the two of them instead of Capoue, Dembele, Paulinho etc.

 

[Modric THFC]

Townsend was good for QPR, I'll give you that. But it takes a different mentality to do it for a club like Spurs where there are expectations that we will dominate and win most games, particularly at home. Townsend has clearly struggled in the spot-light at home and away for Spurs in the PL. Lamela has largely as well. The difference being that Townsend has often struggled in the cup games as well, whereas Lamela has up till this point left his good performances for the cups. However, Lamela has had games for Spurs in the PL such as QPR and Burnley at home this season, which Townsend has yet to emulate in a Spurs shirt. That's not to say he doesn't have the ability to do so, but so far, Lamela looks the superior player IMO and the superior prospect to boot.

I just question your need to come into the Lamela thread on the back of the game yesterday, knowing full well there will be some long-needed praise of the boy, to fill it with ridiculously OTT claims about how bad Lamela is, including your ridiculous claim that one of the brightest Argentinian prospects of his generation (as that was what he was talked as all the way through every age group up till his move to Spurs) was 'unable to strike through a football'.

I'm calling you out as a troll. Not just any old troll, a massive fat troll that sits under a big bridge scoffing goat-burgers and farting goat-**** into the forum-river below.

He scored 2 goals for them.
They got 5 points from 36 in the 12 games he played for them.
They got 4 points in the 2 games he missed during that time.
He's a motd player.

 

[milo]

Townsend was so good against Saudi Sportswashing Machine that not playing him yesterday you see as some real injustice by Poch. But Lamela was "decent" yesterday? Even apart from the goal, which was really nice, I thought Lamela was significantly better against Burnley than Townsend was against Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

I'm glad you realize that you have your own biases about Lamela instead of just shouting about the perceived biases in others.

I am not claiming that this is in any way scientific but the mode match rating for Townsend on Wednesday was 6. Hardly a must start the next game score.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OHk-zzaVQObRkd64Xu-wjtZM8PJbOMvOZszKkb-7yoU/viewanalytics