Hillsborough Disaster

[Baleforce]

i'm with you on the who and the beatles, but the Stones were better than both imo, Richards is a true genius

 

[AuroRaman]

Three absolutely legendary and influential bands. However, in my opinion no band has or will ever be as important to contemporary music/musicians as The Beatles.

 

[camspur]

Aaarrggghhhh!!!

THAT'S the problem here!

The Beatles = geniuses
The Who = incredible
The Stones = average

…you really don't like The Beatles?

I mean look, when it comes to comedy, I'll grant you that the region has produced poor poor and highly aggravating stand-us such as Tarbuck/Cannon & Ball/Tarbuck/Boardman…

…but music? THE BEATLES? INCREDIBLE! Pretend they're from Gerrard's Cross, oops, I meant Windsor!

I could pretend they're the 4 best looking women in the world and it still won't make their music any better. :lol:

 

[Papercut]

Prefer London band The Kinks personally

 

[scaramanga]

Three absolutely legendary and influential bands. However, in my opinion no band has or will ever be as important to contemporary music/musicians as The Beatles.

Is that just a nice way of saying that we can blame the ear-gougingly awful tripe that is pop music on the Beatles?

 

[AuroRaman]

Is that just a nice way of saying that we can blame the ear-gougingly awful tripe that is pop music on the Beatles?

If we're trying to be as factually accurate as possible - yes!

 

[thfcsteff]

Is that just a nice way of saying that we can blame the ear-gougingly awful tripe that is pop music on the Beatles?

Nope.
So many were influenced by The Beatles…from Motorhead to Oasis to Nirvana…wide wide range of influence. In fact, The Stones can lay claim to influencing as much pop as The Beatles, hands down. Their early output was not always dissimilar. It was only when Richards & co decided to wear their drugs like badges that they took the dirty gritty path…no doubt they're a seminal band (X millions of people cannot be wrong) but in terms of musical craft, there can be little to no argument that The Beatles were superior songwriters.

Of course, amidst all this are The Doors…what a group!

It was a damn fine era for incredible music, especially if we stretch to the 70s and Bowie (a personal favorite) and Pink Floyd.

By the way, I hope the Hillsborough 96 families get the answers they deserve…see what I did there? :lol:

 

[thfcsteff]

Prefer London band The Kinks personally

I like The Kinks for sure…a few years ago, my guys were working on the same bill as them in NY. I knew Ray Davies was a gooner and 'nearly' gave him some stick as we were playing the next day. Glad I didn't. We got clumped 3-0. I've never liked them as much…The Who and Daltry? I side-step that by focussing on Pete Townshend!!!!!

 

[markysimmo]

Good to see the admins taking this thread massively off track..

Whatever you feel about the whole thing, 96 people left to go and see a football match 25 years ago, they never came back

RIP

 

[thfcsteff]

Good to see the admins taking this thread massively off track..

Whatever you feel about the whole thing, 96 people left to go and see a football match 25 years ago, they never came back

RIP

In turn, nice to see yet another helpful comment. Thank you mate. Appreciated. by the way, I didn't see any response to my numerous comments about the thread subject. Care to comment on those too?

 

[Papercut]

As a 40 year old, he hated being reminded of his age. Hehe

 

[thfcsteff]

As a 40 year old, he hated being reminded of his age. Hehe

Ha ha, nah, Marky's good mate, he's just angry 'cos he's never heard the bands being discussed! :lol:…all good, Marky can take a dig, always has been able to, a good lad.

 

[AuroRaman]

Ha ha, nah, Marky's good mate, he's just angry 'cos he's never heard the bands being discussed! :lol:…all good, Marky can take a dig, always has been able to, a good lad.

If it aint Chas n' Dave, he aint interested!

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Nope.
So many were influenced by The Beatles…from Motorhead to Oasis to Nirvana…wide wide range of influence. In fact, The Stones can lay claim to influencing as much pop as The Beatles, hands down. Their early output was not always dissimilar. It was only when Richards & co decided to wear their drugs like badges that they took the dirty gritty path…no doubt they're a seminal band (X millions of people cannot be wrong) but in terms of musical craft, there can be little to no argument that The Beatles were superior songwriters.

Of course, amidst all this are The Doors…what a group!

It was a damn fine era for incredible music, especially if we stretch to the 70s and Bowie (a personal favorite) and Pink Floyd.

By the way, I hope the Hillsborough 96 families get the answers they deserve…see what I did there? :lol:

Yep. I'm into my metal and heavier stuff and pretty much any interview you read with any relatively talented musician in the genre above a certain age pays tribute to the Beatles as an influence. Have never seen anyone mention the stones.

The Beatles were much more than just a pop band, their more progressive atmospheric stuff was excellent too. I can't claim to have listened to much Stones (too young and nothing has caught my ear enough to make me want to listen to more) but as far as I'm aware they've never done anything like that(??).

Can't stand the doors though

 

[a spur from swansea]

I was here on that day caught the train up,then the tube,on a very dusty out of date terrace,when it came through on the 'radio',most people thought of holliganism as usual after Heysal and all that.

http://thehillsboroughdisasterdocum...spurs-2-the-day-of-the-hillsborough-disaster/

I think it wasn't the terrace thats the main issue but the fencing,it was like being pend in as an animal at a zoo.

 

[Klinsmania]

I must admit I've not been following the recent inquest so not sure if what I am saying is correct any more, but from what I've heard/read about the case in the past my understanding is that there was a big police cover up, which tried to gloss over their contribution to the tragedy, but some Liverpool fans were still to blame because ticketless people were trying to get in the stadium. Liverpool fans and the club as a whole still seem to argue that they are entirely blameless here, but surely if there hadnt been so many people without tickets trying to get into the ground, then the police wouldn't have been forced to open the gates to stop pushing being crushed outside? Is this not the case? If the Liverpool fans were partly culpable it would be nice for a spokesperson associated with the club to actually admit that they were partially to blame, rather than just point the finger of blame at everyone else.

 

[spitshine]

Good post. As you say no one can be blameless, in life, in anything and it appears their is a witch hunt to lay everything at the door of the South Yorkshire Police, the FA, Sheffield Wednesday, the council but not Liverpool. I've seen the videos there were huge numbers of fans outside and very little police, if you were a copper in the same position you would be fearful. Especially, considering hooliganism was much in focus during those days

 

[AuroRaman]

In the recent enquiry, and indeed Cameron's speech and apology about it in Parliament, they confirmed that the supporters were not to blame in any way (pretty much his words if I recall) for the events that led to the tragedy. I think official numbers confirmed that the number of fans eventually let in was not to capacity and in fact would not have been an issue, ticketless or otherwise, if the other two pens had been opened up. Of course, my first and foremost opinion is that ticketless fans should not be trying to enter a stadium regardless.

Didn't police chiefs also reject a request by the bobbies on the ground to delay kick-off, in order to allow fans to enter and take up positions in the full stand? Don't have a source for that, just sure I read it somewhere.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Insulting revisions to Wikipedia entry on Hillsborough made from Government computers - Telegraph

Government computers have been used to insert insulting revisions to Wikipedia entries on the Hillsborough disaster. A series of insulting revisions to the site began on the 20th anniversary of the 1989 tragedy, when "Blame Liverpool fans" was anonymously added to the Hillsborough section of the online encyclopedia.

Computers on Whitehall's secure intranet were used again in 2012 to change the phrase "You'll never walk alone" to "You'll never walk again" and later "You'll never w*** alone".

Logs of the IP addresses of computers used to post the revisions revealed they were made by computers based in government departments including the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, the Treasury and the Office of the Solicitor General. The Cabinet Office is now investigating the issue to find out how the revisions were made.

Among the other amendments made from government computers includes changes to the phrase "This is Anfield", which appears above the players' tunnel at the club's ground, to "This is a S***hole". The words "nothing for the victims of the Heysel stadium disaster" were also added to a description of the Hillsborough memorial at the Reds' stadium.

 

[SteveAWOL]

I must admit I've not been following the recent inquest so not sure if what I am saying is correct any more, but from what I've heard/read about the case in the past my understanding is that there was a big police cover up, which tried to gloss over their contribution to the tragedy, but some Liverpool fans were still to blame because ticketless people were trying to get in the stadium. Liverpool fans and the club as a whole still seem to argue that they are entirely blameless here, but surely if there hadnt been so many people without tickets trying to get into the ground, then the police wouldn't have been forced to open the gates to stop pushing being crushed outside? Is this not the case? If the Liverpool fans were partly culpable it would be nice for a spokesperson associated with the club to actually admit that they were partially to blame, rather than just point the finger of blame at everyone else.

Spurs fans were almost killed in a similar crush back in 1981 at Hillsborough, thankfully the chief of police on that day had the sense to let people onto the pitch so there was nothing worse than broken bones suffered, I dunno if any of them were ticketless and therefore partly to blame too though :-k

Hillsborough: report reveals the catalogue of errors that led to disaster and attempts at a cover-up - Telegraph

The report finds that the safety of the crowd admitted to the Leppings Lane terrace was “compromised at every level”, and there was clear evidence of the failings from previous semi-finals at Hillsborough.

Before the 1981 FA Cup semi-final between Tottenham and Wolves there was a serious crush on the same terrace, in which many people were injured and fatalities narrowly avoided. Following the incident, there was a breakdown in the relationship between Sheffield Wednesday and South Yorkshire Police.

The club refused to accept the seriousness of the incident and held the police responsible. It is apparent the stadium failed to meet minimum safety standards for sports grounds. Proposals to feed supporters from designated turnstiles to specific pens were not acted on because Wednesday’s primary concern was to limit costs. There was a delayed kick-off at the 1987 FA Cup semi-final there and crushing at the 1988 semi-final.

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/report/main-section/part-1/page-4/

...
1.54 In 1981, following serious crushing at the FA Cup Semi-Final between Tottenham Hotspur and Wolverhampton Wanderers, resulting in injuries to 38 fans, Hillsborough was withdrawn from the FA Cup semi-final list. Tragedy had been averted by opening gates in the perimeter fencing and allowing spectators to sit on the perimeter track.
...
1.64 Reinstated as an FA Cup venue, Hillsborough hosted the Semi-Final between Leeds United and Coventry City on Sunday 12 April 1987. The match was due to start at 12 noon. Approximately 20 minutes before the kick-off, Chief Superintendent Brian Mole, the experienced Match Commander who had written the Operational Order, delayed the kick-off to accommodate spectators from both clubs who had been held up while travelling to Sheffield.

1.65 Despite the sequence of events in 1987, the Operational Order for the 1988 Semi-Final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest provided no contingency plan for delays in travelling to the stadium. While Nottingham Forest supporters had a relatively short journey, this was not the case for those travelling from Liverpool.

1.66 The 1988 match passed without serious incident. There were, however, two issues of significance. First, on approaching the ground spectators recalled being requested by police officers to show their tickets. Second, others, including police officers on duty, remembered being crushed in the central pens, 3 and 4. Police officers closed access to the tunnel once these pens were considered full and fans were redirected to the side pens.

1.67 On 20 March 1989 Liverpool were drawn again to play Nottingham Forest and Hillsborough was chosen by the FA as the most suitable venue. Following a controversial but serious incident, unrelated to his duties as Match Commander, C/Supt Mole was relieved of his duties just three weeks before the Semi-Final and moved to another location. He was replaced by C/Supt Duckenfield, who had minimal experience of managing football matches.
...
1.76 The Operational Order did not provide information or advice about the known bottleneck outside the Leppings Lane turnstiles, nor did it comment on the well-established risk of congestion. These problems were known to SYP and there had been serious congestion the previous year. There were no contingency plans in the Order for delaying the kick-off, as had happened in 1987, for relieving congestion at the turnstiles, for identifying overfull pens or for closing the tunnel, as had happened in 1988.