The only controversial idea is you suggesting all he does is pass sideways and backwards constantly - He has proven in the past he is progressive on the ball. He is clearly going through a period of poor form/loss of confidence which means you tend to go back into your shell and play it safe. Winks is fine, and if stays fit is the least of our problems....
-
Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara
Harry Winks
- Thread starter elltrev
- Start date
Bishop
John Lacy
All he is doing right now is sideways passing. The past is the past and I understand he isn't in amazing form, but he needs to work through it or be replaced in the team.
I don't know if he has "proven" he is a progressive passer, the jury remains out. There have been moments but also plenty of games far more in balance where he hasn't. I personally hope he can show more of the progressive passing because I like him as a player but I'm not blind to the reality.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk
metalgear
Luka Modric
Winks to Real rumours soon.
I think it's too late for Winks to grow in the courage/risk taking department. It's an entirely different to the pass it along mindset.
In some ways he reminds me of Bentaleb... Neat on the ball, but no impact on the game.
Sent from my SM-T835 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
I think it's too late for Winks to grow in the courage/risk taking department. It's an entirely different to the pass it along mindset.
In some ways he reminds me of Bentaleb... Neat on the ball, but no impact on the game.
Sent from my SM-T835 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Yep, kind of agree, think he will have good games when the team is being aggressive, right tempo, pushing.
But his default game, the game he will retreat to under pressure is too conservative ...
Hope I'm wrong, but don't see it.
Gazza Dazzla
Chris Perry
I don’t see that at all. We’ve been under pressure plenty of times in the Champions League and he’s consistently been our man of the match in those situations.
Hes just had a run of a few average games, games where he’s still been far from our worst player. 4 games ago he was MOTM in the Champions League final, hardly hiding away playing safe when the pressures on!
We have some issues currently but they don’t stem from Winks. Think this is being completely blown out of proportion !
Hes just had a run of a few average games, games where he’s still been far from our worst player. 4 games ago he was MOTM in the Champions League final, hardly hiding away playing safe when the pressures on!
We have some issues currently but they don’t stem from Winks. Think this is being completely blown out of proportion !
Bullet
Andy Thompson
Winks is playing the DM role, so he doesn't feel it is right (or his boss tells him not) to be sliding throughballs and playing low percentage passes.
Whereas I would like Winks to say "sod that, when I get a chink of a chance I'm going to go for it, I back myself to do it and I back someone to cover me if I get caught out".
Because when a team arrives with a low block (Villa, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Palace probably) we need every player to be brave and TRY clever things and try dribbles to disrupt their 2 banks of 5. Otherwise we just AVB the ball side-to-side. Winks can do more than AVB it side-to-side.
Whereas I would like Winks to say "sod that, when I get a chink of a chance I'm going to go for it, I back myself to do it and I back someone to cover me if I get caught out".
Because when a team arrives with a low block (Villa, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Palace probably) we need every player to be brave and TRY clever things and try dribbles to disrupt their 2 banks of 5. Otherwise we just AVB the ball side-to-side. Winks can do more than AVB it side-to-side.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
I would agree with all this, i think he is being judged unfairly by some fans. We have not really had a settled team ( mostly because of injurys) and he has been constricted in what he does. He is never going to be a player who stands out in what he does but he has the ability to keep the ball moving and i am sure he has a big future here ( and for England).
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
It’s people claiming that despite the stats showing it, pass maps etc... he does pass forward most of the time, he keeps possession better than anyone in the league so far and is being called England’s De Jong
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
He has been inconsistent in that department. Thought he was better against Arsenal, some nice quick passing to get out of tight spaces, start counter attacks and some good attacking runs.
Like everyone in our team he needs movement ahead of him and around him. But he has a lot more competition now and needs to find his best form and up his game to keep his place. As it should be.
FatBloke
Niko Kranjcar
Winks has apparently played more passes (per 90 minutes) than anyone else in the league this season bar Laporte at Emirates Marketing Project. And surprisingly, his 15.24 per 90 into the final third is the highest in the league. Of course, they could just be sideways within the final third, or out to the wings.
https://tbrfootball.com/harry-winks-has-been-a-busy-man-for-tottenham-so-far-this-season/
Every good side needs a metronomic passer in central midfield to set their tempo. As Bullet points out, perhaps he's playing too conservatively because of our unsettled midfield and/or the lack of cohesive play around him. Once he settles with Ndombele and/or Lo Celso, with Alli and Son making incisive runs ahead of them, I think we'll start to see peak Winks again.
https://tbrfootball.com/harry-winks-has-been-a-busy-man-for-tottenham-so-far-this-season/
Every good side needs a metronomic passer in central midfield to set their tempo. As Bullet points out, perhaps he's playing too conservatively because of our unsettled midfield and/or the lack of cohesive play around him. Once he settles with Ndombele and/or Lo Celso, with Alli and Son making incisive runs ahead of them, I think we'll start to see peak Winks again.
Last edited:
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
Or perhaps the “dangerous passes” are meant to come via the full backs (least are of danger to us) or the attackers lead by Eriksen which actually is our normal MO
SteveAWOL
Chris Jones
FWIW... hopefully when Dele, Ndombele, Sessegnon and Lo Celso are match fit we’ll see more chances created; as you say...
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
I think a huge issue with him right now is Sissoko beside him and the complete lack of runners ahead.
Sissoko isnt so much a partner, nor disciplined enough positionally for Winks to really thrive beside.
And our front line is slow, narrow and anonymous at the moment. There arent spaces being created, runs made etc.
Im not sure what people really expect from Winks right now to be honest, he is one of our top performers as it stands.
Sissoko isnt so much a partner, nor disciplined enough positionally for Winks to really thrive beside.
And our front line is slow, narrow and anonymous at the moment. There arent spaces being created, runs made etc.
Im not sure what people really expect from Winks right now to be honest, he is one of our top performers as it stands.
just no mate, Hugo, Lamela, Toby, Kane, Lucas have all had better starts to season, nowhere near "top"
People want him to pass the ball quickly, that's it .. chart above, I see 9 obvious forward passes out of 35, and that doesn't even take into account how long it took him to release.
Players don't run if they know the pass isn't coming, Kane, Son, Lucas, Lamela all make runs, if they aren't it's because they fudging know the pass isn't coming. The Villa game when Eriksen came on showed that, players knew Eriksen would hit it, so began running.
I'd rather he take that chart above and instead of missing 2 passes all game, miss fudging 10, go for it, put the pressure on the attackers to move, to be there. Fact is if a midfielder that is unwilling to be aggressive against Villa (I was there at game, they never pressed, pushed up, worried us), do you really believe he's going to turn it on against someone who pressures us?
I like Winks, neat tidy footballer, homegrown, works hard and all that, but he is no where near a first team player level we need based on his consistent output of last 9 months or so. (Neither is KWP, Sanchez and Sissoko, all great bench/depth, but real issue if genuine first choice)
FatBloke
Niko Kranjcar
9 obvious forward passes out of 35 (against Villa} is over 25%. I'd be absolutely delighted if Winks did that every game, esp. if he maintains anything like a decent success rate. Don't forget that those charts are final third only.
It's the 6 or 7 out of 60 against Saudi Sportswashing Machine that I'm concerned about, with 4 of them failing to meet their intended target.. That represents turgid play.
FatBloke
Niko Kranjcar
A diagonal pass from CM to a FB/WB (or winger) bombing down the wing into space, followed by a cross from the byeline, is absolute classic attacking play. It must represent about 80% of Liverpool's attack these days!
I'd be as chuffed as a badger with a pot of custard if we managed to get back to that dynamic defence-stretching play. Just think back to how awesome we were with Eriksen feeding Walker and an in-form Rose.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
But aren’t crosses the least effective form of attack
And even less effective against packed defence systems
It’s why Liverpool actually play it wide to a WF like salad or mane and they then cut in centrally. The full back then overloads the wide area giving them options
It’s what son does so well for us and what we missed in the first 3 games (Saudi Sportswashing Machine he wasn’t rusty)
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Id debate a couple of those at least. Lucas has been bright, but hardly ground breaking. Hugo has been fine, nothing to write home about (more, better than last year, which is nice). I do contest your point, I think Winks has been doing a lot more for us, at a much higher standard, than he is given credit for.
Which is not to say he has been amazing, there is clearly room for more to come from him.
Players dont pass if the run isnt made. See how that line of argument works? Its a 50/50 thing, chicken and egg. If players arent making space what can Winks do? If players arent showing for runs what can Winks do?
And if he just passed the ball into the opposition 10 times a game because he was being brave, but really just ended up inviting pressure, counter attacks and exposing us - I do not think there would be people claiming that is better. He would be getting slagged off even more.
I do believe Winks has it in him to be quite brilliant, but also that he needs the environment around him to facilitate. A partner that works with him, forwards that make opportunity etc.