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Fergie: Retired, Moyes: Sacked, LVG/Giggs: The New Super Duo
- Thread starter Mr Bob Dobalina
- Start date
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over
moyes is going to do well at united. then you lot will pretty much get on my nerves when you make excuses for it. LOL...i have issues
the future is written
moyes is going to do well at united. then you lot will pretty much get on my nerves when you make excuses for it. LOL...i have issues
the future is written
Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over
Moyes is a top manager...count me in, African.
I don't buy into this whole lack of European experience thing. A manager who's successful in the Premier League for 10 years (which doesn't seem to be in dispute) can manage in Europe. The basic tenets of management will still apply - and he can fine tune the rest, especially with the resources and structure that United have.
Similarly, I'm not sure the lack of trophy is as important a deficiency in his CV as is being suggested. Traditionally, he's always had a small squad, so I'd imagine viewed cup competitions as a slight distraction. If anything, I think the lack of trophies, in the context of Everton's resources (!), points to him prioritising the club over himself. Wigan, FA Cup winners and likely relegated; Swansea, League Cup winners and faded into relative obscurity - indeed, 17 points behind Everton and 3 places below them.
I'm not suggesting he's the perfect candidate for United, but they have a clear structure, tradition and mentality in place, which Moyes embodies, as well as a successful 10 year + Premier League history, which exhibits a far greater quality than more luck based knockout competitions.
Moyes is a top manager...count me in, African.
I don't buy into this whole lack of European experience thing. A manager who's successful in the Premier League for 10 years (which doesn't seem to be in dispute) can manage in Europe. The basic tenets of management will still apply - and he can fine tune the rest, especially with the resources and structure that United have.
Similarly, I'm not sure the lack of trophy is as important a deficiency in his CV as is being suggested. Traditionally, he's always had a small squad, so I'd imagine viewed cup competitions as a slight distraction. If anything, I think the lack of trophies, in the context of Everton's resources (!), points to him prioritising the club over himself. Wigan, FA Cup winners and likely relegated; Swansea, League Cup winners and faded into relative obscurity - indeed, 17 points behind Everton and 3 places below them.
I'm not suggesting he's the perfect candidate for United, but they have a clear structure, tradition and mentality in place, which Moyes embodies, as well as a successful 10 year + Premier League history, which exhibits a far greater quality than more luck based knockout competitions.
Lily White
Clive Wilson
Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over
I reckon moyes will do well also. Moyes and fergie seem to like the players that are down-to-earth with a hard working mentality.
I reckon moyes will do well also. Moyes and fergie seem to like the players that are down-to-earth with a hard working mentality.
Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over
History shows that after the demise of great men..little men try to replace them and fail.
I hope so at United. I think we have a great chance of a title challenge next year with the 3 big clubs probably all under new management and financial restrictions in place.
History shows that after the demise of great men..little men try to replace them and fail.
I hope so at United. I think we have a great chance of a title challenge next year with the 3 big clubs probably all under new management and financial restrictions in place.
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over
aaaahhhh
that is a VERY good point.
aaaahhhh
that is a VERY good point.
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over
I'll take you up on that .. define success for Moyes at United?
No excuses from me, I think he'll fail
I'll take you up on that .. define success for Moyes at United?
No excuses from me, I think he'll fail
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over
regular contention for the title. a trophy here , a trophy there. knockout stages of europe etc
P.S, you're the last person i expect to make an excuse
regular contention for the title. a trophy here , a trophy there. knockout stages of europe etc
P.S, you're the last person i expect to make an excuse
Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over
I agree with you here. It is very clear that Moyes has always prioritized the small chance of finishing in the top four despite the mountain of a challenge that is. With his tiny squad, there is little chance that he could both mount a top four campaign *and* a strong cup run. Other clubs who are midtable or bottom half could focus everything on getting a cup with no other concerns.
Another reason he tends not to do well in big cup games though is his natural tendency to be a "reactionary" manager. Even though he's been at Everton forever, he adapts Everton's approach to each game depending on the opponent's strengths and weaknesses, rather than crafting and falling back on an inherent style or system of play like Wenger/Klopp/Bielsa/Pep/Benitez et al. While this pays off in maximizing Everton's meager resources over the long haul of a league campaign, Everton fans often note that they're habituated to playing for a point at the top four grounds (esp Anfield) - and a point's not enough in big cup games. In those players need not only tactical preparation but the self-belief to take risks.
However, you could argue that one of Fergie's greatest strengths has been his ability to adapt over the course of his long career. Man United's style of play has swayed like the tide throughout his years, and in difficult European ties United are often specifically set up to react to the opponent. I consider this more of a flexibility in *strategy* though, whiles Moyes is more of a micromanager. But with far greater resources at hand, I think you will see Moyes try to build an long-term style in keeping with United's traditions. There have been half-seasons (nearly always second-halfs) where Everton have actually played superb attacking football, at least against the lesser sides.
I agree with you here. It is very clear that Moyes has always prioritized the small chance of finishing in the top four despite the mountain of a challenge that is. With his tiny squad, there is little chance that he could both mount a top four campaign *and* a strong cup run. Other clubs who are midtable or bottom half could focus everything on getting a cup with no other concerns.
Another reason he tends not to do well in big cup games though is his natural tendency to be a "reactionary" manager. Even though he's been at Everton forever, he adapts Everton's approach to each game depending on the opponent's strengths and weaknesses, rather than crafting and falling back on an inherent style or system of play like Wenger/Klopp/Bielsa/Pep/Benitez et al. While this pays off in maximizing Everton's meager resources over the long haul of a league campaign, Everton fans often note that they're habituated to playing for a point at the top four grounds (esp Anfield) - and a point's not enough in big cup games. In those players need not only tactical preparation but the self-belief to take risks.
However, you could argue that one of Fergie's greatest strengths has been his ability to adapt over the course of his long career. Man United's style of play has swayed like the tide throughout his years, and in difficult European ties United are often specifically set up to react to the opponent. I consider this more of a flexibility in *strategy* though, whiles Moyes is more of a micromanager. But with far greater resources at hand, I think you will see Moyes try to build an long-term style in keeping with United's traditions. There have been half-seasons (nearly always second-halfs) where Everton have actually played superb attacking football, at least against the lesser sides.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over
I think Moyes is the man for the job - the right choice for them.
But he won't replace Sir Red Nose. Who can? First season Manu will do well, then slide. Hard work will get you so far. A long way in fact. Tactics are also handy. But Moyes is not a psychologist as Fergie was. Motivation. Pressing peoples buttons. Moyes is too tame for me. Not in his predecessors league when it comes to motivating and manipulating.
I think Moyes is the man for the job - the right choice for them.
But he won't replace Sir Red Nose. Who can? First season Manu will do well, then slide. Hard work will get you so far. A long way in fact. Tactics are also handy. But Moyes is not a psychologist as Fergie was. Motivation. Pressing peoples buttons. Moyes is too tame for me. Not in his predecessors league when it comes to motivating and manipulating.
metalgear
Luka Modric
Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over
I think this - its not just Moyes and Fergie, but the club as has a history of players playing out of their skin when in a Man U jersey. Not just the manager but the history and institution that drives them forward. What you need least is a egocentric narcissistic manager trying to put himself ahead of the club.
I think this - its not just Moyes and Fergie, but the club as has a history of players playing out of their skin when in a Man U jersey. Not just the manager but the history and institution that drives them forward. What you need least is a egocentric narcissistic manager trying to put himself ahead of the club.
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over
Longest-serving football manager to retire after 50 years
Mr Davies, who first took charge in 1963, said he had enjoyed managing "tremendously"
English football's longest-serving manager is to retire at the end of the season from the club he formed with a group of friends 50 years ago.
Jimmy Davies, 71, is stepping down as boss of Waterloo Dock AFC, in the Liverpool County Premier League.
Mr Davies, who first took charge in 1963, said he had enjoyed managing "tremendously".
He added that life in the grassroots game had been "proper football".
Mr Davies's claim to be the longest-serving manager in England has been verified by The Football Association.
He said he had "made the bold announcement" ahead of the club's AGM though would remain on the committee.
"Time moves on [and] the modern age is catching up on me," he said.
Mr Davies will have been in charge for 24 more years than Sir Alex Ferguson, who recently announced he was stepping down at Manchester United after 26 years, but said there were not many similarities between their tenures.
"I don't think Fergie gets involved in washing football kits like my wife does," he said.
It was the same year Harry Catterick led Everton to the English first division title and Bill Shankly's Liverpool began a campaign that would bring them their sixth English championship.
In February of 1963 The Beatles recorded their first album, Please Please Me.
Mr Davies, who has logged every game's appearances and scorers ever since, said he had played "early on but after six weeks, the lads found me out and, trying to be nice, said 'you can go and be our manager'.
"It was purely by accident."
Mr Davies's tenure has seen the club win more than 70 trophies.
Waterloo Dock's best-known player was striker John Durnin, who started his career with the side before being sold to Liverpool for £500 in 1986.
Mr Davies's last game as manager will be on 28 May.
Longest-serving football manager to retire after 50 years
Mr Davies, who first took charge in 1963, said he had enjoyed managing "tremendously"
English football's longest-serving manager is to retire at the end of the season from the club he formed with a group of friends 50 years ago.
Jimmy Davies, 71, is stepping down as boss of Waterloo Dock AFC, in the Liverpool County Premier League.
Mr Davies, who first took charge in 1963, said he had enjoyed managing "tremendously".
He added that life in the grassroots game had been "proper football".
Mr Davies's claim to be the longest-serving manager in England has been verified by The Football Association.
He said he had "made the bold announcement" ahead of the club's AGM though would remain on the committee.
"Time moves on [and] the modern age is catching up on me," he said.
Mr Davies will have been in charge for 24 more years than Sir Alex Ferguson, who recently announced he was stepping down at Manchester United after 26 years, but said there were not many similarities between their tenures.
"I don't think Fergie gets involved in washing football kits like my wife does," he said.
It was the same year Harry Catterick led Everton to the English first division title and Bill Shankly's Liverpool began a campaign that would bring them their sixth English championship.
In February of 1963 The Beatles recorded their first album, Please Please Me.
Mr Davies, who has logged every game's appearances and scorers ever since, said he had played "early on but after six weeks, the lads found me out and, trying to be nice, said 'you can go and be our manager'.
"It was purely by accident."
Mr Davies's tenure has seen the club win more than 70 trophies.
Waterloo Dock's best-known player was striker John Durnin, who started his career with the side before being sold to Liverpool for £500 in 1986.
Mr Davies's last game as manager will be on 28 May.
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over
Much ado about nothing. Give me United's current squad, future budget etc and I'd coach them to the premiership, so could most of the people on this forum. Seriously, coaching is very much over-rated.
Much ado about nothing. Give me United's current squad, future budget etc and I'd coach them to the premiership, so could most of the people on this forum. Seriously, coaching is very much over-rated.
papaspur
Kasey Keller
Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over
too much football manager has gone to your head
too much football manager has gone to your head