Fergie: Retired, Moyes: Sacked, LVG/Giggs: The New Super Duo

[Baleforce]

i've watched a lot of united over the past 3 decades, my definition of a united type of player is one who is really ****ing good, Mata certainly is that

 

[glorygloryeze]

i've watched a lot of united over the past 3 decades, my definition of a united type of player is one who is really ****ing good, Mata certainly is that

I agree, but there definitely murmours around the club that they shouldn't be signing him because he wasn't....u have to ask wtf?

 

[Superted]

i've watched a lot of united over the past 3 decades, my definition of a united type of player is one who is really ****ing good, Mata certainly is that

See I disagree. A United type of player is full of ego and knows he's going to win before he steps on the park. I don't believe they've had the best players in those seasons where they've won, especially in central midfielder.

Carrick is not an A-grade midfielder, nor is Fletcher. But those 2 in CM with others around somehow won the league last season.

Andy Cole certainly wasn't A-grade but he was their most prolific striker in recent memory.

It's all about that arrogance with United. Started with Hughes, ramped up with Cantona, Keane brought it to a whole new level and dragged the rest of the club with him, and all the time overseen by that warlord Ferguson.

LVG might bring it back. Moyes couldn't and there's no player like Keane amongst that group who can do it on his own.

Mata - I get what Giggs is saying. Has the skills to pay the bills, but a bit of a nancy boy.

 

[glorygloryeze]

See I disagree. A United type of player is full of ego and knows he's going to win before he steps on the park. I don't believe they've had the best players in those seasons where they've won, especially in central midfielder.

Carrick is not an A-grade midfielder, nor is Fletcher. But those 2 in CM with others around somehow won the league last season.

Andy Cole certainly wasn't A-grade but he was their most prolific striker in recent memory.

It's all about that arrogance with United. Started with Hughes, ramped up with Cantona, Keane brought it to a whole new level and dragged the rest of the club with him, and all the time overseen by that warlord Ferguson.

LVG might bring it back. Moyes couldn't and there's no player like Keane amongst that group who can do it on his own.

Mata - I get what Giggs is saying. Has the skills to pay the bills, but a bit of a nancy boy.

Firstly, Giggs is claimed to have said that Alcantara was "not a United type of player" and I was only guessing that he possibly thought the same of Mata.

If you're understanding of being a "United type of player" is NOT being a "Nancy boy" then I have to ask who in their midfield IS a "United type of player" because quite frankly it could be argued that all their midfielders are 'nancy boys'.

Is Mata more of a "nancy boy" than Carrick, Young, Cleverley, Nani??
Funny how Fellaini was "not a United type of player" to many, though he isn't exactly a "nancy boy".

There's been such a gaping hole through their midfield for such a while that teams could drive doube-deckers buses through it; this goes back to Fergie's time, and it was only European coaches who did not suck-up or genuflect to Fergie, such as AVB, Mancini, Benitez, Di Matteo, Mourinho etc who actively saw the weakness and decided to try and exploit it by attacking them through the centre where it hurt.

If it's being a 'nancy boy' that stops a good midfielder also being a "United type of player" then they should just buy some of Hull or Stoke's midfield.

 

[Mumorn]

Agreed that the definition of a Utd player is "confidence, winner" as opposed to "flashy, world class" - Like superted mentioned, Fergie made a team full of hard working winners who COULD get the job done. Moyes inherited basically the SAME team, he even strengthened it with the likes of Mata and they still struggled to beat teams at home. Fergie got the best out of his players because he had hard workers but more important of all, he was a ****ing damn good manager.

Park and Fletcher are two players that probably wouldnt get in the likes of Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Barcelona.. but they both have Champions League winners medals, Premier League medals and numerous wins under their belt as Man Utd players, because they were hard working players who know a system. Ferguson kept the likes of Brown and O'Shea because they know the club, can play a variety of positions and on their day were solid footballers, dependable. Players don't need to have flashy names or be able to do a flip-flap to be dependable, solid footballers.

 

[Neymar]

Agreed that the definition of a Utd player is "confidence, winner" as opposed to "flashy, world class" - Like superted mentioned, Fergie made a team full of hard working winners who COULD get the job done. Moyes inherited basically the SAME team, he even strengthened it with the likes of Mata and they still struggled to beat teams at home. Fergie got the best out of his players because he had hard workers but more important of all, he was a ****ing damn good manager.

Park and Fletcher are two players that probably wouldnt get in the likes of Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Barcelona.. but they both have Champions League winners medals, Premier League medals and numerous wins under their belt as Man Utd players, because they were hard working players who know a system. Ferguson kept the likes of Brown and O'Shea because they know the club, can play a variety of positions and on their day were solid footballers, dependable. Players don't need to have flashy names or be able to do a flip-flap to be dependable, solid footballers.

i agree wholeheartedly with everything you have said. especially re the likes of park, fletcher, oshea etc. but i just can't get out of my head that it just seemed like every single refereering decision went their way under ferguson. had moyes had some of that, i think he could've got man utd in the top four this season.

i could be seeing things with a biased viewpoint obviously, but it seriously seemed like that to me at the time.

 

[braineclipse]

Agreed that the definition of a Utd player is "confidence, winner" as opposed to "flashy, world class" - Like superted mentioned, Fergie made a team full of hard working winners who COULD get the job done. Moyes inherited basically the SAME team, he even strengthened it with the likes of Mata and they still struggled to beat teams at home. Fergie got the best out of his players because he had hard workers but more important of all, he was a ****ing damn good manager.

Park and Fletcher are two players that probably wouldnt get in the likes of Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Barcelona.. but they both have Champions League winners medals, Premier League medals and numerous wins under their belt as Man Utd players, because they were hard working players who know a system. Ferguson kept the likes of Brown and O'Shea because they know the club, can play a variety of positions and on their day were solid footballers, dependable. Players don't need to have flashy names or be able to do a flip-flap to be dependable, solid footballers.

I think you guys seriously underestimate Fletcher at his best. Flashy might not have described many United players, but world class certainly did. Van der Saar with Evra, Vidic and Ferdinand ahead of them was certainly up there for example. I could go on and on with names from the previous very good United teams.

Most teams have squad players, and that's essentially what players like Brown and O'Shea were.

 

[Mumorn]

I think you guys seriously underestimate Fletcher at his best. Flashy might not have described many United players, but world class certainly did. Van der Saar with Evra, Vidic and Ferdinand ahead of them was certainly up there for example. I could go on and on with names from the previous very good United teams.

Most teams have squad players, and that's essentially what players like Brown and O'Shea were.

sorry if you read my post as underestimating Fletcher. I rate the guy very highly. I think ALOT, like you say, underestimate him though. Because he is Scottish and doesnt do the flashy stuff. He played the simple way, but didnt shy away from the big games, made himself available, i love it when a player gets fans on their side and Fletcher done that. He was ridiculed in his early years, someone who United fans couldnt really stand, but his solid performances and consistency won them over.

 

[indianspur]

there reports saying that LVG has called off the Toni Kroos 20 mill transfer to Utd :lol: the madness begins

 

[braineclipse]

sorry if you read my post as underestimating Fletcher. I rate the guy very highly. I think ALOT, like you say, underestimate him though. Because he is Scottish and doesnt do the flashy stuff. He played the simple way, but didnt shy away from the big games, made himself available, i love it when a player gets fans on their side and Fletcher done that. He was ridiculed in his early years, someone who United fans couldnt really stand, but his solid performances and consistency won them over.

Then we agree

there reports saying that LVG has called off the Toni Kroos 20 mill transfer to Utd :lol: the madness begins

Interesting. I rate Kroos, but I'm not sure he's what United need right now. I think he's at his best as a #10, but they already have tons of players for that role. He can play deeper in midfield, but his problem is a lack of mobility and pace in that role - essentially the same problems that Carrick has. And I'm not convinced that Kroos is as good defensively as someone like Carrick, Busquets or Alonso for that deep playmaker role at the highest level. And if they want to play a 4-4-2 I think they need someone a bit more athletic in the centre, at least for one of the positions.

Seemed a bit like a "big name for the sake of it" signing all along to me. I'm guessing if LvG brings him in, having worked with him before, he would have a plan to integrate him in a team, but not shocked if he goes for someone else.

 

[indianspur]

Then we agree



Interesting. I rate Kroos, but I'm not sure he's what United need right now. I think he's at his best as a #10, but they already have tons of players for that role. He can play deeper in midfield, but his problem is a lack of mobility and pace in that role - essentially the same problems that Carrick has. And I'm not convinced that Kroos is as good defensively as someone like Carrick, Busquets or Alonso for that deep playmaker role at the highest level. And if they want to play a 4-4-2 I think they need someone a bit more athletic in the centre, at least for one of the positions.

Seemed a bit like a "big name for the sake of it" signing all along to me. I'm guessing if LvG brings him in, having worked with him before, he would have a plan to integrate him in a team, but not shocked if he goes for someone else.

442??? LVG is a strict 433 man and id say that Kroos can play as one of the midfield 3

 

[braineclipse]

442??? LVG is a strict 433 man and id say that Kroos can play as one of the midfield 3

You think he will use Rooney wide or in a midfield role? Or sell Rooney?

I shouldn't have said 4-4-2, but essentially 4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1 type formations with two out of RvP and Rooney in those two central attacking positions.

I agree that he can play as a part of a midfield 3, but for me he's at his best when given a lot of freedom to get forward more into a #10 role. They already have a lot of players that applies to.

 

[Whiffler]

Meanwhile allegedly Moyes allegedly involved allegedly in some kind of alleged fracas.

Allegedly

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-27525170

 

[glorygloryeze]

This whole "United Player" description needs clarifying as to me it just sounds like a way for those already there o decide who can be a part of their "gang".

I wonder if anyone looked at a young 18 year old Cristiano Ronaldo and thought "he's not a United player", or whether the same about Nani.
Or Anderson. Or Kleberson.

I would love to know if Ronaldinho would have been expected to have been a "United type of player":-k

I think eventually if last season's troubles still hold back Man Utd and their progress back to the top (well we are still suffering for Redknapp's collapse post Feb 2012 imo) fingers and questions should start to be asked of Ryan Giggs and his vetoing of the Thiago Alcantara deal

 

[indianspur]

You think he will use Rooney wide or in a midfield role? Or sell Rooney?

I shouldn't have said 4-4-2, but essentially 4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1 type formations with two out of RvP and Rooney in those two central attacking positions.

I agree that he can play as a part of a midfield 3, but for me he's at his best when given a lot of freedom to get forward more into a #10 role. They already have a lot of players that applies to.

Rooney and LVG is a disaster waiting to happen.........watch this space