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Fans last night

Re: Emmanuel Adebayor

Very close ..

Ade should not have been the person to express/state this, Mason/Kane/Lloris could have all said it, probably as you expressed with a little more diplomacy and everyone would have gone for it. Ade is an extremely polarizing figure, he/club should know better.

Re the crowd itself, it is not a WHL or Spurs problem, its a football issue, the Sport has lost its way, too much media hype, too many "must win" games, too many stats, analysis of which is the best manager, best buy of season, list goes on. Sides like Cheat$ki get celebrated for winning the CL with the most appalling run of football in history.

The pressure is too much, too many people actually believe it's CL or relegation, no in-between, we no longer enjoy the games and I think the players have lost that pleasure as well.

Is it a surprise that the two managers (BMJ & Harry) that had the most relative success (to where they started) were both people who motivated/protected and helped the players enjoy/express themselves? and the managers with rules/systems/discipline it all falls apart?

I actually thought that Poch would have more of a galvanising effect on both the players and the support. So much Anti-AVB and Anti-Sherwood that almost he wasnt either of those 2 and would get some time. However i think the moderates in football have gone from football support and in general, 24 sports news etc.

I dont see anything wrong with our Vice - Captain coming out and stating that its easier to play away. Lets face it our results for several years represent this as a fact.

2 options

Slate the player/s and tell them they should be getting on with it, whilst not looking at the stats or what numerous players and manager have said.

or

Actually try and support the team a bit more create an atmosphere and see where that goes
 
Re: Emmanuel Adebayor

If it is a football wide problem, why are managers able to implement systems at other clubs but we can't seem to be able to? Why should we be confined to an 'arm around the shoulder' approach while other clubs expose us in the big games due to tactical issues?

I think Ade was a pretty decent shout in terms of who should say this. Maybe Lloris would have been the best, or Kaboul obviously since he is captain. But Ade has the seniority and the reputation to take the flack. Sending Mason or Kane out there to say this would be madness. Sure there's a chance the fans get on their back less because they are 'one of their own' but putting a young player in that position just seems like utter madness to me.

I'm not sure other "big" clubs in the last 10 years have significantly tried to change/implement systems successfully, outside of a personality like a Mourinho, and even then, it usually ends in tears (AVB failed both at Cheat$ki and Spurs in getting player buy in, is it him, or the clubs?)

Swansea/Southampton type clubs don't have players who think they are bigger (or have bigger opportunities) than the club, in a lot of cases its fit in, or you might be playing in the championship next. everyone of our players could get a gig elsewhere, potentially for more money.

Lloris would have been best, Mason or Kane were an example that would get less flack because they are young, because they are "home grown". Ade was the wrong choice, most people (see this thread) will just say "**** you Ade, play like you give a **** and maybe I will support like I give a ****"
 
Re: Emmanuel Adebayor

Like it or not he is the vice captain. He is the right person to make these statements.
 
Re: Emmanuel Adebayor

Of course he's right, seems some think because they earn a pretty penny they are robots who won't be affected by constant moaning everytime something goes wrong?

Our fans have been called out a lot, from all angles - the players, manager, media, on these forums. Maybe its time to take a look at our 'support' on a matchday at WHL...

Spot on. I have cancelled three tickets for upcoming home games - atmosphere stinks and it feels like a chore to attend right now. Yesterday some of the stick our players got (even in the first half) was a flat out disgrace.
 
Re: Emmanuel Adebayor

my take, no matter what you pay you don't "deserve" anything, you can expect merely what the product is (no more, no less), that you will see two sides play a football match, there is no guarantee of anything

how you behave at the event is up to you, positive or negative, there is no demand of either as long as you adhere to the rules of entry on the ticket and don't do anything illegal

there is no such thing as a "good fan" or a "bad fan" merely customers

you can pine all you want for the old days but they have long left the PL and they ain't coming back

Too many fans only come to see a win. If that doesn't happen, the club is a joke and by association them as well I suppose.

It's like going to a concert with your favorite band and spend the whole time shouting abuse at the musicians if they miss a note or boo them for not picking the setlist you wanted.
 
Re: Emmanuel Adebayor

As I posted on social media lastnight, I'm seriously considering not renewing next season, 17 years I've had my ticket and this is the most down I've felt about my team for a long time

We have regressed 10 years in the space of 2 1/2 seasons, it's a total chore to go each week, I might enjoy 1 game in 4 at most, I hope something happens between now and the end of the season for me to get my passion for it back
 
Re: Emmanuel Adebayor

As I posted on social media lastnight, I'm seriously considering not renewing next season, 17 years I've had my ticket and this is the most down I've felt about my team for a long time

We have regressed 10 years in the space of 2 1/2 seasons, it's a total chore to go each week, I might enjoy 1 game in 4 at most, I hope something happens between now and the end of the season for me to get my passion for it back

Spend it on your girl and then just go up for the odd match, I had a season ticket last 20 years ago. Moving further away did not help but as much as I love Tottenham you have to other things in your life because if you lived your life through this club you would go crazy.
 
Re: Emmanuel Adebayor

Spend it on your girl and then just go up for the odd match, I had a season ticket last 20 years ago. Moving further away did not help but as much as I love Tottenham you have to other things in your life because if you lived your life through this club you would go crazy.

Very very true matey
 
Re: Emmanuel Adebayor

Too many fans only come to see a win. If that doesn't happen, the club is a joke and by association them as well I suppose.

It's like going to a concert with your favorite band and spend the whole time shouting abuse at the musicians if they miss a note or boo them for not picking the setlist you wanted.

yep, exactly like that

but the price of a ticket to that gig doesn't entitle you to anything more than the artist performs, you don't have more of a say if it's Noel Gallagher at the o2 for £80 than you do seeing a local band for a fiver at the dog and duck
 
Emmanuel Adebayor

I am a paying fan. I agree with every word he has said. Not sure it was the right messenger,but it was the right message.

Me too, season ticket holder of 15 years or so and i say he's bang on the money - as was AVB and Pochettino when they brought the issue up.

You're definitely right about it being the right message but wrong messenger though!
 
Re: Emmanuel Adebayor

The fans pay horrendously expensive prices to attend games because they feel a residual pride in the shirt and in the club that hasn't been entirely washed away by the tides of commercialization that have accompanied the modern game. Then they see the team limply ship two goals to opponents that work harder than our players, put in more effort and determination than our players, care more for their pride than our players care about our pride. Then they see the likes of Capoue laughing it up with the opposition when we're 2-0 down: they see most of the players run down the tunnel at full time without even bothering to acknowledge the displeasure of the crowd at the result, they see them gaily swapping shirts and chuckling with players from the other team as they head to their dressing rooms, and then they see them driving away in their supercars to their mansions in the countryside.

And then the players themselves turn around and accuse these fans of scaring them to a degree that they feel inhibited when trying to play the game.

Bull****, just pure cowardice and deceit masquerading as an attempt to apportion blame to anyone but the players themselves.

The anger of the fans didn't stop you yuk-yuk-ing it up with the opposition throughout the game. The anger of the fans didn't stop you from meekly surrendering to the opponent. The anger of the fans didn't prevent you showing no shame at the result and no remorse for the performance as you strolled down the tunnel, grinning and clutching a Stoke shirt.

No, it isn't like going to a gig to see the artist perform and then booing him. That's a completely inaccurate description. It's like those kids who bought tickets to see Justin Bieber perform, only to have him cancel at the last minute because he had a cold and didn't want to hurt himself performing for the fans who spent all that time and effort to go see him. It's like those people who bought Britney Spears tickets during her low period: all they got was a semi-coherent drunken sot screaming and lip-synching at them half the time. Did they have no right to complain about such a lackadaisical effort put in by the idols they paid to see?

Any fans will expect the same amount of effort put into the endeavor they pay good money to watch that they themselves put in. The ordinary fan in the stands spends a large chunk of his/her yearly earnings on the club, stands there as the years roll on and the icicles form and then melt on the overhangs above the pitch, all the while screaming himself hoarse in his/her own attempts (however misguided) to see his team pick up the three points on offer.

And what do they get from the players? Chuckles with the opposition, no pride in the shirt, no loyalty to the manager, no attachment to the club. And now, this. Cowardice and deception of the highest order, with the players pointing to the fans themselves as reasons for why they don't have a collective spine or any sense of shame.

F*ck you, Ade. There are systemic problems with the club that run far deeper than you, the manager or the team itself, but cravenly blaming the fans for your own lack of pride in the shirt and in yourself is taking the easy way out.
 
Re: Emmanuel Adebayor

Like it or not he is the vice captain. He is the right person to make these statements.

I don't know if there is any right person to make these statements. We are merely customers to the Club and so the customers kick up a fuss when they don't get the service they feel they deserve. The team that got relegated in '76 got a standing ovation from the crowd at the final home game - these lot get boos at half and full time. A better thing to say, in my opinion, is that the players understand the frustrations of the crowd and are doing all they can to rectify the situation and that if there is any way the crowd could sing and clap and cheer to get behind them it would help.
 
Re: Emmanuel Adebayor

The fans pay horrendously expensive prices to attend games because they feel a residual pride in the shirt and in the club that hasn't been entirely washed away by the tides of commercialization that have accompanied the modern game. Then they see the team limply ship two goals to opponents that work harder than our players, put in more effort and determination than our players, care more for their pride than our players care about our pride. Then they see the likes of Capoue laughing it up with the opposition when we're 2-0 down: they see most of the players run down the tunnel at full time without even bothering to acknowledge the displeasure of the crowd at the result, they see them gaily swapping shirts and chuckling with players from the other team as they head to their dressing rooms, and then they see them driving away in their supercars to their mansions in the countryside.

And then the players themselves turn around and accuse these fans of scaring them to a degree that they feel inhibited when trying to play the game.

Bull****, just pure cowardice and deceit masquerading as an attempt to apportion blame to anyone but the players themselves.

The anger of the fans didn't stop you yuk-yuk-ing it up with the opposition throughout the game. The anger of the fans didn't stop you from meekly surrendering to the opponent. The anger of the fans didn't prevent you showing no shame at the result and no remorse for the performance as you strolled down the tunnel, grinning and clutching a Stoke shirt.

No, it isn't like going to a gig to see the artist perform and then booing him. That's a completely inaccurate description. It's like those kids who bought tickets to see Justin Bieber perform, only to have him cancel at the last minute because he had a cold and didn't want to hurt himself performing for the fans who spent all that time and effort to go see him. It's like those people who bought Britney Spears tickets during her low period: all they got was a semi-coherent drunken sot screaming and lip-synching at them half the time. Did they have no right to complain about such a lackadaisical effort put in by the idols they paid to see?

Any fans will expect the same amount of effort put into the endeavor they pay good money to watch that they themselves put in. The ordinary fan in the stands spends a large chunk of his/her yearly earnings on the club, stands there as the years roll on and the icicles form and then melt on the overhangs above the pitch, all the while screaming himself hoarse in his/her own attempts (however misguided) to see his team pick up the three points on offer.

And what do they get from the players? Chuckles with the opposition, no pride in the shirt, no loyalty to the manager, no attachment to the club. And now, this. Cowardice and deception of the highest order, with the players pointing to the fans themselves as reasons for why they don't have a collective spine or any sense of shame.

F*ck you, Ade. There are systemic problems with the club that run far deeper than you, the manager or the team itself, but cravenly blaming the fans for your own lack of pride in the shirt and in yourself is taking the easy way out.

Well written and i understand where you are coming from however i think its a catch 22, ignoring Ade's comments

When we are awful Portsmouth away pre-redknapp springs to mind, we sang we made noise, yes it was gallows humour at points however i walked away with if not a sense of pride in our players, a sense of pride in the support

Nobody enjoys sitting in a crowd with no atmosphere, waiting to be entertained listening to people grumbling, so maybe its worth us a supporter base going to make some noise first rather than waiting to be entertained and then make some noise?

Just seems the pressure of "needing a result" has got to everybody and maybe people need to think why they are actually going! To be entertained or to support the club/team/badge whatever you feel allegiance to
 
Re: Emmanuel Adebayor

I'm not sure other "big" clubs in the last 10 years have significantly tried to change/implement systems successfully, outside of a personality like a Mourinho, and even then, it usually ends in tears (AVB failed both at Cheat$ki and Spurs in getting player buy in, is it him, or the clubs?)

Swansea/Southampton type clubs don't have players who think they are bigger (or have bigger opportunities) than the club, in a lot of cases its fit in, or you might be playing in the championship next. everyone of our players could get a gig elsewhere, potentially for more money.

Lloris would have been best, Mason or Kane were an example that would get less flack because they are young, because they are "home grown". Ade was the wrong choice, most people (see this thread) will just say "**** you Ade, play like you give a **** and maybe I will support like I give a ****"

Regarding your last paragraph, I don't think 'most people' have disagreed with Ade at all. 'most people' have actually listened to what he has said to say rather than immediately reaching for the entitlement card.

Dubai, well written post but you assume a lot of things, such as 'effort', lack of pride in the shirt etc. I don't think it's an effort problem at all. It's clear to see its confidence, which is again, exactly what Ade is saying.
 
Re: Emmanuel Adebayor

The fans don't get behind the team when they keep losing at home. That sounds about right. The fans are human. They find it hard to get roused when the team are ****e. And when our over paid striker can't control the ball. And he may have a point but you really don't want to hear about support and loyalty from someone with Adebayors track record. It will **** the fans off.

Ade can Eff off and not play at WHL or he can play and get the fans back on side by scoring some fekin goals.
 
Re: Emmanuel Adebayor

Yesterday there was a spell of singing for they sake of it for around 10 minutes after the beginning of the second half

It was singing actually for the craic rather than to motivate anyone other than the fans themselves

It was actually enjoyable briefly and felt like football

The majority of the time it seems like most fans are baiting the team to fail so they could boo/moan/criticise and thir just waiting for that opportunity

What was more worrying yesterday was these moaners were actually right with their normally macaronic comments
 
Re: Emmanuel Adebayor

Regarding your last paragraph, I don't think 'most people' have disagreed with Ade at all. 'most people' have actually listened to what he has said to say rather than immediately reaching for the entitlement card.

Dubai, well written post but you assume a lot of things, such as 'effort', lack of pride in the shirt etc. I don't think it's an effort problem at all. It's clear to see its confidence, which is again, exactly what Ade is saying.

Was Capoue so low on confidence that he had to chuckle along, arm in arm with Geoff Cameron, when we were 2-0 down? Was Ade so low on confidence that he cheerfully chatted to two Saudi Sportswashing Machine players immediately after our defeat to them, in the damn dressing room?

It isn't a confidence issue. It's the players being so utterly spineless they can't even get angry at themselves or their teammates when they're losing to worse opposition without ever putting up a fight. They prefer to make merry with their opponents, swap shirts and run to their mansions post-match. What is that but cowardice? And, furthermore, what is subsequently blaming the fans for their own lack of pride in themselves or their teammates anything but deception and bare-faced, spiteful dishonesty?

Don't expect the fans to stick up for you when you don't stick up for them. Or even yourself.
 
Re: Emmanuel Adebayor

I agree to some extent, the fans at Spurs are crap! moan moan moan

On the other hand this is where our mentality is showing itself up. GROW SOME BALLS and take the game by the scruff of the neck. Try hard, close down, effort effort effort will win the spurs fans round.

When a player is playing poorly if he tries it helps. We had Freund, not the best footballer but tried his heart out and was a fan favorite!

As a supporter, that is all I ask of our players. Mason and Kane are prime examples of this for me, they are far from world-beaters but they give their all.
If we win we win, if we lose, at least go down fighting and showing some pride in the shirt.

What gets your goat as a paying fan, is seeing players who clearly have talent, phoning in displays and thats what frustrates the majority of us
 
Re: Emmanuel Adebayor

I am a paying fan. I agree with every word he has said. Not sure it was the right messenger,but it was the right message.

Nail on head.

WHL is an ugly place to be at the moment. Opposition fans can't wait to play there, I bet.

All I heard around me, from the very first minute of the game, was moaning, booing and abuse of the players. The sheer stupidity and ignorance revealed in every bad tempered comment simply beggared belief.

Listen, there's no doubt that what we got from the players yesterday (like much of this season) was unacceptable. I'm not going to make excuses for them. And Ade shouldn't either. But make no mistake........the fans have been no less of a disgrace.
 
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