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European TDD (Spurs-Related Deals)

Right so apparently Trippier was rubbish, Aurier is rubbish, KWP is rubbish, Sanchez was awful yesterday. Maybe just maybe its the system leaving our FBs constantly exposed that is a massive part of the issue? All of these players have decent attributes, I refuse to accept they are all simply not good enough. Aurier's deficiencies are often greatly over exaggerated on here, and if he can get over his recent injury problems and have an extended run in the side I think he will prove solid enough....
 
glorygloryeze said:
I'm not just talking about now, i'm talking about the last few years. It was us (presumably Poch) who bought Aurier in the first place.
Of course there was also last summer when we didn't buy anyone and so had to do the CM upgrades now maybe at the detriment of upgrading RB.

As i say, it shows how bad our transfer market involvement has been
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Yes the transfer inactivity has certainly stacked the work up. We're almost looking at rebuilding.
 
Finney Is Back said:
If you are happy to see Sanchez there for the next however many matches until one of the others is fit then that's your prerogative, the hopes the two of us have for our season are obviously very different.

Typically when centre halves play at fullback they tend to be ones who are actually good on the ball (i.e. Jan playing at left back). Sanchez is anything but good on the ball, he is arguably the weakest player in possession in our whole first team squad.

Hopefully one of the others (preferably the one who is actually a right back as opposed to a centre half/midfielder) will be available after the international break as you say. I haven't looked at the likely return dates but realistically I don't see Foyth of Dier being available until some time in October.

I would've thought we could get £15 to £20 million for Aurier just as easily in January as we can now.
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Certainly don't want to see Sanchez there again.

If Ndombele is fit, Sissoko can be deployed. We've got a home game against Palace in a fortnight (slightly tricky as Zaha could be up against whomever) the Leicester away...sure the options will improve. Plus Aurier will probably still be here..so moot.
 
harr1984 said:
Right so apparently Trippier was rubbish, Aurier is rubbish, KWP is rubbish, Sanchez was awful yesterday. Maybe just maybe its the system leaving our FBs constantly exposed that is a massive part of the issue? All of these players have decent attributes, I refuse to accept they are all simply not good enough. Aurier's deficiencies are often greatly over exaggerated on here, and if he can get over his recent injury problems and have an extended run in the side I think he will prove solid enough....
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I think that a lot of the issue is that there has been a drop off in the quality of our fullbacks over the last couple of seasons. Rose is still decent but is not where he was and at RB we have missed the athleticism that we had under Walker, although Trippier was good in 2017-18. Peak Walker and Rose really stretched teams and created space for our other creative players. The job has been made harder by decrease in quality in central midfield and the lack of passing ability there most of last season.

I do not think that doubling up is the answer, it just invites more pressure. We need to rediscover our verve, hopefully, Ndombele and Lo Celso will settle quickly and allow us to make better use of the ball in midfield and put us on the front foot more often.
 
milo said:
Summer 2018 was a brick show, I think that this summer has been pretty good, we just need the new signings to settle in and be fully integrated into the team.
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It was a good window but I think we're only seeing the long term effects of 2018 now where you see why clubs tweak their squad each season as it left us too much to do in one summer if we wanted to work on RB, CM, attacking midfield, LB and thats without even thinking that our 2 CB's have no real succession plan at present - arguably Sanchez but I'm beginning to doubt him and the idea of him leading the line next season if they both leave is scaring me.
 
P.D. said:
It was a good window but I think we're only seeing the long term effects of 2018 now where you see why clubs tweak their squad each season as it left us too much to do in one summer if we wanted to work on RB, CM, attacking midfield, LB and thats without even thinking that our 2 CB's have no real succession plan at present - arguably Sanchez but I'm beginning to doubt him and the idea of him leading the line next season if they both leave is scaring me.
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The big issue in 2018 was not being able to move on the players that Poch no longer wanted. It gave us a lot more work to do this summer and meant that our rebuilding was pushed back a year. We are playing catch up for that mistake and it is one of the reasons why I hope that we can move on other unwanted players today because it gives us less to do in future windows.
 
milo said:
Summer 2018 was a brick show, I think that this summer has been pretty good, we just need the new signings to settle in and be fully integrated into the team.
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I agree with you here.

However I think it would be madness to undo some of that good work this summer by going and selling one of the only two right backs (and indeed the only currently uninjured one) that we have in the squad.
 
milo said:
The big issue in 2018 was not being able to move on the players that Poch no longer wanted. It gave us a lot more work to do this summer and meant that our rebuilding was pushed back a year. We are playing catch up for that mistake and it is one of the reasons why I hope that we can move on other unwanted players today because it gives us less to do in future windows.
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I think that was all of our own doing however. It is VERY rare for a player to stay at a club when they know they aren't wanted at all (Winston Bogarde excepted). It is amazing how many players will accept a move away when officially told that they won't be getting a squad number. If we are a club that needs to get players out before buying then we need to ensure that we're not putting prohibitive prices on those players to ease their departures. The biggest barrier to players moving on is generally financial. The players we want shot of tend to be moving down the football pyramid and therefore it is very difficult for clubs to pay the transfer fees that Levy demands and agree personal terms with the player comparable to their wage at Spurs. Our 2018 window was a joke and I don't think being unable to move players on is any excuse. You can always move players on with the right combination of the carrot and stick (Winston Bogarde excepted)
 
harr1984 said:
Right so apparently Trippier was rubbish, Aurier is rubbish, KWP is rubbish, Sanchez was awful yesterday. Maybe just maybe its the system leaving our FBs constantly exposed that is a massive part of the issue? All of these players have decent attributes, I refuse to accept they are all simply not good enough. Aurier's deficiencies are often greatly over exaggerated on here, and if he can get over his recent injury problems and have an extended run in the side I think he will prove solid enough....
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My reason for thinking Sanchez was rubbish yesterday was the fact that he was so clearly unable to play in tight spaces and therefore couldn't play any part in us trying to break through Arsenal's press. If you were picking centre halves to play at full back he would be one of the last choices due to his (in)ability on the ball, that's no big criticism of him, he is a centre half who's game is based mainly on physicality and strength.

I don't think KWP is rubbish, I think he is OK. Just as I think Aurier is OK. I don't think either are good enough for a team that wants to win the title, but they are at least both PL standard right backs. The one thing that both of them can do is control and pass the ball in confined spaces, allowing them to be involved in our team turning defence into attack.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I agree with you here.

However I think it would be madness to undo some of that good work this summer by going and selling one of the only two right backs (and indeed the only currently uninjured one) that we have in the squad.
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Maybe the reason for not looking to sign a right back and being willing to sell one of the two that we have left is that he wants to change the way we play. Maybe he wants someone who can form a back three when we attack and Rose or Sessegnon push forwards becoming a front five.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I think that was all of our own doing however. It is VERY rare for a player to stay at a club when they know they aren't wanted at all (Winston Bogarde excepted). It is amazing how many players will accept a move away when officially told that they won't be getting a squad number. If we are a club that needs to get players out before buying then we need to ensure that we're not putting prohibitive prices on those players to ease their departures. The biggest barrier to players moving on is generally financial. The players we want shot of tend to be moving down the football pyramid and therefore it is very difficult for clubs to pay the transfer fees that Levy demands and agree personal terms with the player comparable to their wage at Spurs. Our 2018 window was a joke and I don't think being unable to move players on is any excuse. You can always move players on with the right combination of the carrot and stick (Winston Bogarde excepted)
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We're into the realms of speculation here and I do not know the reasons why we have found it difficult to sell unwanted players. It is also possible that they are not attracting offers from clubs that they are willing to join and do not want to take a step down. I think that it is best to sell unwanted players when you have the opportunity, it might not present itself at a convenient time in the window next time and that could hamper other business. We are hardly talking about a key players here, either, he's a had a poor injury record last season and has been erratic for a lot of the rest of his time with us.
 
milo said:
We're into the realms of speculation here and I do not know the reasons why we have found it difficult to sell unwanted players. It is also possible that they are not attracting offers from clubs that they are willing to join and do not want to take a step down. I think that it is best to sell unwanted players when you have the opportunity, it might not present itself at a convenient time in the window next time and that could hamper other business. We are hardly talking about a key players here, either, he's a had a poor injury record last season and has been erratic for a lot of the rest of his time with us.
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As I said before I have yet to see a player stay at a club (Winston B.... etc) when told they aren't wanted and they won't be worse off financially by moving.

If we wanted to sell Aurier this window then we needed to secure his replacement in that same window (if not before). I assume that the club actually agree with my stance on retaining Aurier here seeing as how it looks as though he will be staying with us until at least Jan now.
 
Finney Is Back said:
As I said before I have yet to see a player stay at a club (Winston B.... etc) when told they aren't wanted and they won't be worse off financially by moving.

If we wanted to sell Aurier this window then we needed to secure his replacement in that same window (if not before). I assume that the club actually agree with my stance on retaining Aurier here seeing as how it looks as though he will be staying with us until at least Jan now.
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Crouch had to be forced out. He was told that he would be playing with the reserves to force him to move to Stoke. Rose wanted to leave last summer, and we wanted to sell him, but he wouldn't join the clubs that were interested in him.
 
milo said:
Crouch had to be forced out. He was told that he would be playing with the reserves to force him to move to Stoke. Rose wanted to leave last summer, and we wanted to sell him, but he wouldn't join the clubs that were interested in him.
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I guess the question is therefore how much we wanted him out? At a transfer fee of say £50 million there are only a handful of clubs that can afford Rose and an even smaller handful who can give him a pay rise. However at only £20 million there are probably 12 clubs in the PL alone who would want him. Equally if Rose knows he can turn clubs down and continue playing for Spurs anyway then he is more likely to turn down any club other than one that offers a definite step up or will be paying him considerably more money. If Danny Rose was told "We think it is time the two of us parted company Danny, to that end we won't be giving you a squad number this season. We have agreed a fee in principle with these 5 clubs.... You are free to negotiate with all of them". I think it is far more likely that he would agree to move to one of them.
 
milo said:
We're into the realms of speculation here and I do not know the reasons why we have found it difficult to sell unwanted players. It is also possible that they are not attracting offers from clubs that they are willing to join and do not want to take a step down. I think that it is best to sell unwanted players when you have the opportunity, it might not present itself at a convenient time in the window next time and that could hamper other business. We are hardly talking about a key players here, either, he's a had a poor injury record last season and has been erratic for a lot of the rest of his time with us.
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My speculation!
Rose - another case of professional jealousy seeing his opposite full back get a glamorous move but not actually attracting interest from any team better than us? Not helped by us not offering him a new deal due to age (would say injuries but that never stopped Lamela getting a new one)
Toby - I’m still mystified why every team in the league didn’t slap down 25m to ask the question, I assume he has a plan and a preferred club that have made a higher wage offer based on him going on a free (maybe Ajax who would be prepared to take the risk of waiting?)
Jan - I’ve said a few times I don’t see why we wouldn’t give him at least 2 years given his service and injury record. GHod knows what he did in pre season!
Wanyama - I’m amazed a team would gamble on hi given the injury issues he’s had, let alone the fact he looks a shadow of the player he was. If he’s turned down a move due to wages I think that’s an indictment on where his priorities are.
Eriksen - Levy may have asked for silly money based on Hazards fee it the top clubs just don’t see him as a box office signing for the price and wages quoted.
Janssen - think this was one may have genuinely been about him wanting to fight for his place instead of going to Brighton, but I think the move to Mexico has all been about trying to maintain the inflated salary we gave him.
I also think part of the issue is Levy wanting to recoup ‘book value’ on players we don’t want and the stadium uncertainty stopping us from making the decision to offload players not extending with two years to go.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I guess the question is therefore how much we wanted him out? At a transfer fee of say £50 million there are only a handful of clubs that can afford Rose and an even smaller handful who can give him a pay rise. However at only £20 million there are probably 12 clubs in the PL alone who would want him. Equally if Rose knows he can turn clubs down and continue playing for Spurs anyway then he is more likely to turn down any club other than one that offers a definite step up or will be paying him considerably more money. If Danny Rose was told "We think it is time the two of us parted company Danny, to that end we won't be giving you a squad number this season. We have agreed a fee in principle with these 5 clubs.... You are free to negotiate with all of them". I think it is far more likely that he would agree to move to one of them.
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Again, it is speculation. If Aurier was a nailed on first team player, I could see the point but he's not. He's in his third season and has been unable to establish himself as first choice throughout his time here. If we can get a fair price for him, we should take it and then focus on signing a top quality replacement at the earliest opportunity.
 
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