Eric Dier

[elltrev]

For me Dier’s mistake isn’t leaving Antonio to go with Fornals, it’s failing to cover that space earlier. Similar to City’s second goal against us, where he left a huge gap after Sanchez had been pulled wider.

Agree Tanganga could have done better too, and Lloris.

It’s also just a brilliant cross, thanks to Bowen having as much time as he wanted due to Reguilon being taken out.

 

[90291Spur]

For me Dier’s mistake isn’t leaving Antonio to go with Fornals, it’s failing to cover that space earlier. Similar to City’s second goal against us, where he left a huge gap after Sanchez had been pulled wider.

Agree Tanganga could have done better too, and Lloris.

It’s also just a brilliant cross, thanks to Bowen having as much time as he wanted due to Reguilon being taken out.

And allied to the fact that NOBODY ELSE closed him down. Not a single one of them.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Anyone left who thinks this guy can still cut it at CB?

 

[DubSpur]

Anyone left who thinks this guy can still cut it at CB?

He's a useful player to have in the squad as he can cover a number of positions in case we have an injury pile up in any position.
He shouldn't be the first choice in any position though.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

He's a useful player to have in the squad as he can cover a number of positions in case we have an injury pile up in any position.
He shouldn't be the first choice in any position though.

I’d tend to agree but we have too many fillers and he isnt even homegrown
Needs to leave for his own sake

 

[DubSpur]

I’d tend to agree but we have too many fillers and he isnt even homegrown
Needs to leave for his own sake

I'm not sure what you mean by "fillers". If the squad is about 25 then that should be 2 in each position and 3 for keepers.
That leaves a couple of spots for players that can cover a number of positions to help cover injuries. That is the one
strength that Dier has and the reason for keeping him. He won't be top quality in any one position but will do a job
when needed.

 

[Legohamster]

Why the feck Moura lets Fornals walk straight past him then points out the danger instead of dealing with it himself.

View attachment 11089
View attachment 11088

That photo sums us up really, lots of players doing nothing.

No one closing down the cross, Moura passing on someone at the last minute and a CB out of position

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm not sure what you mean by "fillers". If the squad is about 25 then that should be 2 in each position and 3 for keepers.
That leaves a couple of spots for players that can cover a number of positions to help cover injuries. That is the one
strength that Dier has and the reason for keeping him. He won't be top quality in any one position but will do a job
when needed.

I mean we have too many currently who play on the first 11 who are fillers. Players who aren’t good enough
We had over half a teams worth yesterday IMO
Keeping them as squad players is part of our problem. They are too comfortable here

 

[Bishop]

I mean we have too many currently who play on the first 11 who are fillers. Players who aren’t good enough
We had over half a teams worth yesterday IMO
Keeping them as squad players is part of our problem. They are too comfortable here

Yup. People keep making arguements for various players usefulness as squad players yet not realising they are playing as first teamers.

A squad full to brim of backups gets you 9th place. We should not be thinking about esoteric situations when a player might be useful. We needed to think about the first 11 and generating funds to improve it. By simply replacing first teamers you gain reasonable squad players.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Looking at that picture and having watched the goal again, I think it actually shows that our players don’t know who they are supposed to be marking or what zones they are supposed to be covering.... it just looks like rank bad coaching from our ‘second to none’ coaching team.

I do take back a lot of what I said about Dier by the way. He sees the near post run and goes with that. I don’t blame him for covering that as he sees nobody else doing it.

Moura (our attacking midfielder is originally on Fornals? Why? That is just plainly wrong... He should be Tanganga’s player. In this situation Tanganga has to realise that he is covering no player and no space that needs to be covered and also that he has completely lost his player and therefore needs to come across to cover Antonio so that Dier can go with Fornals.

The whole thing though comes from Son not doing his job. West Ham’s right back has pushed up, Son hasn’t bothered to follow him, that in inexcusable I think. This is what causes Sanchez and Hojbjeg to have to pull out wide to ensure that West Ham don’t have a 3 on 2 overload. West Ham have now created a dream situation with a huge amount of space between our centre backs and our defensive midfielder also out wide so unable to fill that space. Had Son even made a cursory effort to track Coufal then he would’ve been in a decent position to block Bowen’s cross, or at least not allow him to have the time and space to pick out a good ball. Either Sanchez or Hojbjerg also then could’ve stayed central and covered that space Fornals was running into, allowing Dier to stay on Antonio.

I question what the players are being told in terms of who their direct opponent to defend against is and what zones they are told to cover defensively. We look like a team that isn’t getting any coaching.

 

[DubSpur]

Yup. People keep making arguements for various players usefulness as squad players yet not realising they are playing as first teamers.

A squad full to brim of backups gets you 9th place. We should not be thinking about esoteric situations when a player might be useful. We needed to think about the first 11 and generating funds to improve it. By simply replacing first teamers you gain reasonable squad players.

That doesn't mean you throw out every single squad player. For each position you ideally want two players competing for a start or at least a senior squad member and a young player coming through. But you also need that utility player and out of every "filler" we have in the squad Dier is the best suited to that role. Yes, get rid of the majority of fillers, Winks, Sanchez, Moura etc but keep a couple that can cover multiple roles.

 

[elltrev]

Looking at that picture I think it actually shows that our players don’t know who they are supposed to be marking or what zones they are supposed to be covering.... it just looks like rank bad coaching from our ‘second to none’ coaching team.

I do take back a lot of what I said about Dier by the way. He sees the near post run and goes with that. I don’t blame him for covering that as he sees nobody els doing it.

Moura (our attacking midfielder is originally on Fornals? Why? That is just plainly wrong... He should be Tanganga’s player. In this situation Tanganga has to realise that he is covering no player and no space that needs to be covered and also that he has completely lost his player and therefore needs to come across to cover Antonio so that Dier can go with Fornals.

The whole thing though comes from Son not doing his job. West Ham’s right back has pushed up, Son hasn’t bothered to follow him, that in inexcusable I think. This is what causes Sanchez and Hojbjeg to have to pull out wide to ensure that West Ham don’t have a 3 on 2 overload. West Ham have now created a dream situation with a huge amount of space between our centre backs and our defensive midfielder also out wide so unable to fill that space. Had Son even made a cursory effort to track Coufal then he would’ve been in a decent position to block Bowen’s cross, or at least not allow him to have the time and space to pick out a good ball. Either Sanchez or Hojbjerg also then could’ve stayed central and covered that space Fornals was running into, allowing Dier to stay on Antonio.

I question what the players are being told in terms of who their direct opponent to defend against is and what zones they are told to cover defensively. We look like a team that isn’t getting any coaching.

I totally agree re Son. But I don’t know whether it’s by instruction, to prioritise keeping Son as a counter attacking outlet? If not, extremely poor from him.

 

[DubSpur]

Looking at that picture I think it actually shows that our players don’t know who they are supposed to be marking or what zones they are supposed to be covering.... it just looks like rank bad coaching from our ‘second to none’ coaching team.

I do take back a lot of what I said about Dier by the way. He sees the near post run and goes with that. I don’t blame him for covering that as he sees nobody els doing it.

Moura (our attacking midfielder is originally on Fornals? Why? That is just plainly wrong... He should be Tanganga’s player. In this situation Tanganga has to realise that he is covering no player and no space that needs to be covered and also that he has completely lost his player and therefore needs to come across to cover Antonio so that Dier can go with Fornals.

The whole thing though comes from Son not doing his job. West Ham’s right back has pushed up, Son hasn’t bothered to follow him, that in inexcusable I think. This is what causes Sanchez and Hojbjeg to have to pull out wide to ensure that West Ham don’t have a 3 on 2 overload. West Ham have now created a dream situation with a huge amount of space between our centre backs and our defensive midfielder also out wide so unable to fill that space. Had Son even made a cursory effort to track Coufal then he would’ve been in a decent position to block Bowen’s cross, or at least not allow him to have the time and space to pick out a good ball. Either Sanchez or Hojbjerg also then could’ve stayed central and covered that space Fornals was running into, allowing Dier to stay on Antonio.

I question what the players are being told in terms of who their direct opponent to defend against is and what zones they are told to cover defensively. We look like a team that isn’t getting any coaching.

I'd disagree on Fornal being Tanganga's player, Tanganga is in the right position, Moura should've tracked him as he was the one who moved into the box with him.
Ndombele is also out of position, if he had've dropped 5-6 yards the gaping hole that Fornal runs into would've been covered too. Agree about Son though. Poor from him.

 

[Bishop]

That doesn't mean you throw out every single squad player. For each position you ideally want two players competing for a start or at least a senior squad member and a young player coming through. But you also need that utility player and out of every "filler" we have in the squad Dier is the best suited to that role. Yes, get rid of the majority of fillers, Winks, Sanchez, Moura etc but keep a couple that can cover multiple roles.

I suppose it depends on whether you think said utility player is any good. I don't think he's up to par in any of his positions so don't see the usefulness as a squad player. Although my comment isn't purely about him, but more just the overall argument that almost all of the filler players have some sort of usefulness as squad players. Which if we were to accept then we shouldn't move any of them on and thus you end up with a squad as we currently have it.

 

[DubSpur]

I suppose it depends on whether you think said utility player is any good. I don't think he's up to par in any of his positions so don't see the usefulness as a squad player. Although my comment isn't purely about him, but more just the overall argument that almost all of the filler players have some sort of usefulness as squad players. Which if we were to accept then we shouldn't move any of them on and thus you end up with a squad as we currently have it.

I don't think you're getting my point. We need to move on players. But you're not going to get a top class player that is going to act as a utility player waiting for injuries. Dier is about as good as you'll get. O'Shea did a similar role under Fergie. Nobody would call O'Shea a top class player but he did a job in a number of positions. Every title winning squad has a couple of players like that. They won't be starters in the big games but will come in and cover injuries etc in a number of positions.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I totally agree re Son. But I don’t know whether it’s by instruction, to prioritise keeping Son as a counter attacking outlet? If not, extremely poor from him.

The fact that Son is ‘sort of’ back there tells me that he is supposed to defend against Coufal.

 

[Bishop]

I don't think you're getting my point. We need to move on players. But you're not going to get a top class player that is going to act as a utility player waiting for injuries. Dier is about as good as you'll get. O'Shea did a similar role under Fergie. Nobody would call O'Shea a top class player but he did a job in a number of positions. Every title winning squad has a couple of players like that. They won't be starters in the big games but will come in and cover injuries etc in a number of positions.

I understand the point of squad players I just don't agree with your argument that Dier is a good squad player. O'Shea was significantly better than Dier but that's besides the point. A title winning side worries about it's backups when it gets the starters right. We don't have the starts correct right now and that should be priority.

If selling Dier can garner some cash we should absolutly do it. In terms of quality and utility he is very easily replaced.

 

[Bishop]

I'd disagree on Fornal being Tanganga's player, Tanganga is in the right position, Moura should've tracked him as he was the one who moved into the box with him.
Ndombele is also out of position, if he had've dropped 5-6 yards the gaping hole that Fornal runs into would've been covered too. Agree about Son though. Poor from him.

Indeed, If you look at the pitch in horizontal layers then Tanganga is behind the line at which Fornals runs. He can't realistically take him as he would have to cross vertically past Dier. In essence no one is picking up Fornals he's a free man despite us having 4 men in the box.

I still think Dier should have stuck with Antonio as he had him touch tight until the moment the ball was in the air. I do understand why he changed man, though If he was going to go with Fornals that decision needed to be made earlier and clearly to Tangana, for me a poor decision made from an aerial ball which seems to happen often with Dier.

Ultimately it seems once again that our defence has no organisation and relies on individual defensive actions as opposed to a structured response to opposition. Very much the opposite of what you would expect from a Mourinho defence.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I understand the point of squad players I just don't agree with your argument that Dier is a good squad player. O'Shea was significantly better than Dier but that's besides the point. A title winning side worries about it's backups when it gets the starters right. We don't have the starts correct right now and that should be priority.

If selling Dier can garner some cash we should absolutly do it. In terms of quality and utility he is very easily replaced.

This
Plush the dross out and we may see a wholesale improvement
With people crowing about city’s amazing season under Pep they rarely if ever mention the increase in depth due to huge money spent across the whole squad. The average cost of their bench yesterday was about £35m and that includes Foden who was free
That’s the level teams aspire to get near too, but more importantly most fob that bench would start in every other side in the league
Our bench contains players that some think should start.... which shows how weak our starting team must be now

 

[Finney Is Back]

Indeed, If you look at the pitch in horizontal layers then Tanganga is behind the line at which Fornals runs. He can't realistically take him as he would have to cross vertically past Dier. In essence no one is picking up Fornals he's a free man despite us having 4 men in the box.

I still think Dier should have stuck with Antonio as he had him touch tight until the moment the ball was in the air. I do understand why he changed man, though If he was going to go with Fornals that decision needed to be made earlier and clearly to Tangana, for me a poor decision made from an aerial ball which seems to happen often with Dier.

Ultimately it seems once again that our defence has no organisation and relies on individual defensive actions as opposed to a structured response to opposition. Very much the opposite of what you would expect from a Mourinho defence.

Formals is West Ham’s left sided attacking player. He is literally Tanganga’s player.