ENIC

[DubSpur]

Just got home. On the flight back, I got more and more wound up by how we ended up here and the very real prospect that we could be relegated.

Some of the decisions from the club, especially when they’ll be viewed through the prism of hindsight, are going to look beyond incompetent and reckless.

It also occurred to me that if Levy had been in charge, we wouldn’t be in this bad of a mess. Not that he doesn’t have responsibility here, he absolutely does. But if he was in charge, Frank would have gone in December when Paratici apparently wanted him gone.

Even if we’d reached January, Levy would have done something to buy our way out of trouble like he did in 2009 for example. Why? Because Levy owns probably about 1bn worth of the club and he wasn’t going to stand by and watch hundreds of millions wiped off of his investment.

The decision to sack Levy, in terms of the timing, the manner and the way his the void was filled was a disaster for this club.

It would've made a lot more sense to move Levy into Charringtons role as non-executive chairman than get rid of him totally. His knowledge would've been there when needed. The Lewis kids could lean on him for advice when needed and he could've stepped in and made the call on Frank when it was obvious that he was out of his depth. Steps would've been taken much earlier to right things. Just hoping they haven't been taken too late now.

 

[Muttley]

I think getting Porro and Romero back will be enough to drag us out of trouble by the skin of our teeth. Both are players who can pass. But I have no doubt at all this is going to get hairier before it calms, and honestly, for those of us who remember 1993/94, it will be pretty similar IMO in terms of how late it is before we manage to wriggle free…

Yeah was thinking yesterday that Tudor has his own version of RCB and LCB and likes his wing-backs high and wide. Both those two players mentioned are good fits. If think the pair of them could have fun together as the anchor of that right channel.

 

[Gutter Boy]

It’s quite staggering the lack of technical ability amongst our squad. We were desperate for a passer in Jan and signed CG . Mental recruitment.

I think we at least need to put Gray in there for now. He's the most capable of the lot in that direction

 

[DeanoAustin]

It would've made a lot more sense to move Levy into Charringtons role as non-executive chairman than get rid of him totally. His knowledge would've been there when needed. The Lewis kids could lean on him for advice when needed and he could've stepped in and made the call on Frank when it was obvious that he was out of his depth. Steps would've been taken much earlier to right things. Just hoping they haven't been taken too late now.

It feels a bit to me like they have left it too late. We are now completely in the lap of Tudor, what's left of our playing squad and luck. The board can do little to affect our battle against relegation.

People have said we're sleepwalking into relegation. I don't agree at this point. I think everyone at the club is more than aware of the danger we are in but the players and coaching staff have been hung out to dry by a board who could have helped them in December or January. The scale of the incompetence is so hard to comprehend.

As it is, we need to win a minimum of 3-4 of the 5 home games we have or we likely go down because we aren't going to pick up a lot of points away from home. The home games are against winnable opposition but we've won 4 from our last 28 home league games. That's some trend to try and arrest and reverse in any circumstances but particularly when your lives depend on it.

 

[Rorschach]

They made more of an "effort" today but quality is still an issue. Our bench is hilarious. The youngsters who could help are on loan.
I had half tapped in Dec after forest. I really tapped out after spam.

It really will come down to hoping Leeds or forest are worst. Its out of our hands.

I dont know what ENIC plan is. But it couldnt go more wrong if they tried. And I hope all their greed and dunceness bites them in their ass. Unfortunately for us it would mean playing QPR next season

Well, I'm not too sure there was a whole lot of difference in terms of effort. Maybe there was a slight improvement, but as with our press under Frank, we do it badly. There are always easy out balls that are not covered properly. Arsenal gave us a lesson on how to press effectively. The most obvious difference I can see between them and us is our starting point. We stand too far off them to begin with, and as such they have plenty of time to move it on before a Spurs player is in contact.

 

[DubSpur]

It feels a bit to me like they have left it too late. We are now completely in the lap of Tudor, what's left of our playing squad and luck. The board can do little to affect our battle against relegation.

People have said we're sleepwalking into relegation. I don't agree at this point. I think everyone at the club is more than aware of the danger we are in but the players and coaching staff have been hung out to dry by a board who could have helped them in December or January. The scale of the incompetence is so hard to comprehend.

As it is, we need to win a minimum of 3-4 of the 5 home games we have or we likely go down because we aren't going to pick up a lot of points away from home. The home games are against winnable opposition but we've won 4 from our last 28 home league games. That's some trend to try and arrest and reverse in any circumstances but particularly when your lives depend on it.

Yes, 100% agree, criminal negligence from all on the board and the Lewis kids. Proper course of actions would've been to replace Frank in December and get in 4-5 deals done in January (mostly loans would've been fine). Even bring back one or two loanees that we feel are ready to help out. They'd be better than what we have on the bench at the moment. It's no wonder Paratici said sod this I'm off.

If we do manage to stay up then the Lewis family need to put their money where their mouth is in the summer and spend big on quality and proven players.

 

[Mikey10]

Yes, 100% agree, criminal negligence from all on the board and the Lewis kids. Proper course of actions would've been to replace Frank in December and get in 4-5 deals done in January (mostly loans would've been fine). Even bring back one or two loanees that we feel are ready to help out. They'd be better than what we have on the bench at the moment. It's no wonder Paratici said sod this I'm off.

If we do manage to stay up then the Lewis family need to put their money where their mouth is in the summer and spend big on quality and proven players.

Which they won’t.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Just got home. On the flight back, I got more and more wound up by how we ended up here and the very real prospect that we could be relegated.

Some of the decisions from the club, especially when they’ll be viewed through the prism of hindsight, are going to look beyond incompetent and reckless.

It also occurred to me that if Levy had been in charge, we wouldn’t be in this bad of a mess. Not that he doesn’t have responsibility here, he absolutely does. But if he was in charge, Frank would have gone in December when Paratici apparently wanted him gone.

Even if we’d reached January, Levy would have done something to buy our way out of trouble like he did in 2009 for example. Why? Because Levy owns probably about 1bn worth of the club and he wasn’t going to stand by and watch hundreds of millions wiped off of his investment.

The decision to sack Levy, in terms of the timing, the manner and the way his the void was filled was a disaster for this club.

Catastrophic decision!

 

[djp82]

I think we at least need to put Gray in there for now. He's the most capable of the lot in that direction

Agreed in terms of ability on the ball. Don’t think he’s there in a sense of breaking up play. He’ll only learn tho by being used there.

 

[Bishop]

Agreed in terms of ability on the ball. Don’t think he’s there in a sense of breaking up play. He’ll only learn tho by being used there.

Is Gray actually that good on the ball, really? Hes not awful by any means but hes never really done anything impressive or out of the ordinary that you wouldn't really expect from any PL level player? Hes got potentially but people are speaking of him as if hes already there now and that I can't see or understand.

 

[braineclipse]

It feels a bit to me like they have left it too late. We are now completely in the lap of Tudor, what's left of our playing squad and luck. The board can do little to affect our battle against relegation.

People have said we're sleepwalking into relegation. I don't agree at this point. I think everyone at the club is more than aware of the danger we are in but the players and coaching staff have been hung out to dry by a board who could have helped them in December or January. The scale of the incompetence is so hard to comprehend.

As it is, we need to win a minimum of 3-4 of the 5 home games we have or we likely go down because we aren't going to pick up a lot of points away from home. The home games are against winnable opposition but we've won 4 from our last 28 home league games. That's some trend to try and arrest and reverse in any circumstances but particularly when your lives depend on it.

Frank definitely needs to get his share of the criticism here, not just the board and owners.

But yeah, we are now left having to completely trust Tudor and the players that are here and available.

 

[braineclipse]

Well, I'm not too sure there was a whole lot of difference in terms of effort. Maybe there was a slight improvement, but as with our press under Frank, we do it badly. There are always easy out balls that are not covered properly. Arsenal gave us a lesson on how to press effectively. The most obvious difference I can see between them and us is our starting point. We stand too far off them to begin with, and as such they have plenty of time to move it on before a Spurs player is in contact.

Makes it easier when they can leave a couple of players, a couple of out balls that if not covered properly still won't lead us anywhere positive because those players won't do anything useful with the ball anyway.

But yeah, also our own pressing mostly wasn't good enough. But given that we can't retain possession well we can't press properly high and aggressively for 90 minutes, we have to drop off too. But we lack coordination on when and how to do so.

 

[DubSpur]

Is Gray actually that good on the ball, really? Hes not awful by any means but hes never really done anything impressive or out of the ordinary that you wouldn't really expect from any PL level player? Hes got potentially but people are speaking of him as if hes already there now and that I can't see or understand.

He's decent on the ball without being outstanding. That's a lot of Grays problem at the moment, he's decent at most things without having a standout ability.

 

[braineclipse]

Is Gray actually that good on the ball, really? Hes not awful by any means but hes never really done anything impressive or out of the ordinary that you wouldn't really expect from any PL level player? Hes got potentially but people are speaking of him as if hes already there now and that I can't see or understand.

To me at least really rather good in tight spaces. Has that ability to just get out of trouble with the ball, get past players as well as keeping possession.

Showed some good passing too, but that's been more of an inconsistent/occasional thing for him so far.

For me it's more of an interesting "what would happen if" situation. If we played him in midfield and trusted him to receive more under pressure. If we gave him more responsibility on the ball, trusted him more. But not been proven so far as last season he played almost exclusively as a CB or FB and this season the main job of the midfielders when we have had possession has been to watch the ball being played wide to a full back then up the line or long.

 

[Mikey10]

Frank definitely needs to get his share of the criticism here, not just the board and owners.

But yeah, we are now left having to completely trust Tudor and the players that are here and available.

It's been on a downward curve in the PL since December 2023. Frank plays his part, but there is plenty of blame to share around to all of those who have played a role.

 

[braineclipse]

I think getting Porro and Romero back will be enough to drag us out of trouble by the skin of our teeth. Both are players who can pass. But I have no doubt at all this is going to get hairier before it calms, and honestly, for those of us who remember 1993/94, it will be pretty similar IMO in terms of how late it is before we manage to wriggle free…

That's certainly the hope.

Said last season (and maybe before too), Porro, Romero and Maddison were all key to how we manage to progress the ball. We could maybe do without one, but not two, certainly not all three.

We brought in Kudus who should have helped with that given his ability to just drag the ball, team and himself up the pitch. But then he was overplayed to the point of fatigue (probably) and then injury. Then the same with Porro.

If/when we get a couple of them back hopefully that will help enough to keep us safe.

But our lack of recruitment of players with similar skillsets deep would be laughable if it wasn't so damaging to us. Nothing against Gallagher or Palhinha, but they're not that player. Then we freeze out Bissouma who at least on his day can be that player.

Even then we had Gray and Bergvall who respectively could potentially be that player if he ever got the chance and a player who showed that with some risk he was that player last season. But fail to play and use them in a role like that.

Yeah.... I still think a lot of this is on Frank. As Paratici said, Frank's style is (/was) his style. We obviously recruited players for Frankball. We obviously trained and set up for set pieces and defensive solidity over risk on the ball and our own possession game.

Now Tudor has to try to fix it with a squad Frank took from injury problems to injury ravaged with his overplaying of key players while not getting results in the process. A squad that already had balance issues, in part because of us recruiting for Frankball.

What a dumpster fire onboard a crashing train of a season...

 

[Rorschach]

Makes it easier when they can leave a couple of players, a couple of out balls that if not covered properly still won't lead us anywhere positive because those players won't do anything useful with the ball anyway.

But yeah, also our own pressing mostly wasn't good enough. But given that we can't retain possession well we can't press properly high and aggressively for 90 minutes, we have to drop off too. But we lack coordination on when and how to do so.

I shake my head when I see one of ours running full pelt at a defender when he has easy options either side. It is expending enegy for little or no purpose. Contrast that with our guys trying to play out from the back. They have nowhere to go. Arsenal were almost within touching distance of some of our players, removing them as options with no energy expended at all. Vic is often the only outball and his distribution is subpar.

It is a difficult thing to do properly. I've tried coaching it to teenagers before, and if everyone is not fully engaged, then it just falls apart.

 

[Mrs Vert]

Yes, 100% agree, criminal negligence from all on the board and the Lewis kids. Proper course of actions would've been to replace Frank in December and get in 4-5 deals done in January (mostly loans would've been fine). Even bring back one or two loanees that we feel are ready to help out. They'd be better than what we have on the bench at the moment. It's no wonder Paratici said sod this I'm off.

If we do manage to stay up then the Lewis family need to put their money where their mouth is in the summer and spend big on quality and proven players.

They won't. And they will have learnt nothing from this if we survive. If all these people are still here come Aug. Good luck Poch. Cos we wont buy what we need and buy more kids. And if we dont go down this year. Then next year we will

 

[braineclipse]

I shake my head when I see one of ours running full pelt at a defender when he has easy options either side. It is expending enegy for little or no purpose. Contrast that with our guys trying to play out from the back. They have nowhere to go. Arsenal were almost within touching distance of some of our players, removing them as options with no energy expended at all. Vic is often the only outball and his distribution is subpar.

It is a difficult thing to do properly. I've tried coaching it to teenagers before, and if everyone is not fully engaged, then it just falls apart.

On that I think Tudor has a bit of a problem to figure out with Kolo Muani, he clearly has quality we need, but he's not exactly the most engaged presser around.

Otherwise agree on the need for the pressing to be cohesive. Another challenge if Tudor wants that from us, getting that ingrained quickly.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Is Gray actually that good on the ball, really? Hes not awful by any means but hes never really done anything impressive or out of the ordinary that you wouldn't really expect from any PL level player? Hes got potentially but people are speaking of him as if hes already there now and that I can't see or understand.

For now we just need him to do what Poch used Bentaleb and Mason for - to speed up our transition. We can develop him longer term to be an Anderson or Wharton, but for now we just need someone not ponderous in there.