ENIC

[billyiddo]

Not since 2008. Leicester have won two trophies bigger trophies than we have since 91 in fact. I said to you earlier the discussion isn't about consistency, you're trying to pivot to that but that isn't the conversation. The conversation is that when given an opportunity to succeed ENIC have repeatedly walked in the opposite direction.

I entered in to the thread to make the point that our dwindling trophy count owes more to the state of post PL/Sky football than it does the owners, but that's not to say that they haven't made the wrong call at times (I think I've repeatedly said/implied as much throughout the discussion tbh) - like i said earlier the inference was that different owners wouldn't have made the same 'mistakes' - this is an unknown, maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't, that's not really the point - maybe Mourinho would have got Pochettinos team over the line we you parachuted him in for the CL final - but then would he have built the team that got us there in the first place? Probably not - similar here, maybe someone would have done better in whatever particular moments you are talking about but the data (that I've discussed and that Raz laid out) doesn't suggest that different owners would have even reached those points in the first place.

 

[billyiddo]

No the point is to actually win, until we do that I'm not hearing any criticism of Leicester's actual win.

Let's win even just once before we start talking about consistency because we are indeed consistent, consistently not winning.

The point is that the people you think were making the good decisions that we aren't have shown in subsequent seasons and their relegations that it was likely more down to luck than anything else

 

[Bishop]

I entered in to the thread to make the point that our dwindling trophy count owes more to the state of post PL/Sky football than it does the owners, but that's not to say that they haven't made the wrong call at times (I think I've repeatedly said/implied as much throughout the discussion tbh) - like i said earlier the inference was that different owners wouldn't have made the same 'mistakes' - this is an unknown, maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't, that's not really the point - maybe Mourinho would have got Pochettinos team over the line we you parachuted him in for the CL final - but then would he have built the team that got us there in the first place? Probably not - similar here, maybe someone would have done better in whatever particular moments you are talking about but the data (that I've discussed and that Raz laid out) doesn't suggest that different owners would have even reached those points in the firsr place.

You're right in the sense that who knows how successful or not alternative ownership might have, that is indeed pure speculation. What we can say though and I do think it's unarguable is that when we have been close (through the efforts of ENIC) they have invariably made poor decisions.

Moreso my arguments has never even been that we need different ownership, I've always said we need a better leader/chairman/CEO as I do not believe Levy is capable when push comes to shove in the key critical moments of making intelligent football decisions. The last 25 years have demonstrated that clearly enough to me.

 

[Bishop]

The point is that the people you think were making the good decisions that we aren't have shown in subsequent seasons that it was more down to luck than anything else

I disagree it's as simple as not firing Mourinho a week before a final. Or letting Poch's squad stagnate. Or requesting a ridiculous fee for Eriksen and then not reading the room and accepting that he was going. Its not selling Berbatov on the last day of the transfer window and replacing him with flipping Frazier Campbell all after having already sold Keane.

These aren't luck, they are poor footballing decisions.

 

[billyiddo]

I disagree it's as simple as not firing Mourinho a week before a final. Or letting Poch's squad stagnate. Or requesting a ridiculous fee for Eriksen and then not reading the room and accepting that he was going. Its not selling Berbatov on the last day of the transfer window and replacing him with flipping Frazier Campbell all after having already sold Keane.

These aren't luck, they are poor footballing decisions.

I was talking about Leicester wrt luck

 

[Muttley]

You're right in the sense that who knows how successful or not alternative ownership might have, that is indeed pure speculation. What we can say though and I do think it's unarguable is that when we have been close (through the efforts of ENIC) they have invariably made poor decisions.

Moreso my arguments has never even been that we need different ownership, I've always said we need a better leader/chairman/CEO as I do not believe Levy is capable when push comes to shove in the key critical moments of making intelligent football decisions. The last 25 years have demonstrated that clearly enough to me.

How I would put your argument is that ENIC haven't had enough football or even sport people running our club. At every point of inflexion in the last 20 years that has been our undoing. The root cause has been that quartet of Levy, Collecott, Cullen and Caplehorn. Deep down, I think Levy knows that is the problem which is why he tried to get Trevor Birch in 2019. He's then turned to Munn and most recently Venkatesham to supplement the team. It's not as if Levy is blessed with much football DNA either. He has something that is nurtured through a long tenure but I still wouldn't want him anywhere near a football decision. Nor should he as part owner and chairman. He needs to hire the right leaders for that. Money gets you a lot of the way. You still need football DNA though.

I stand a little corrected that we've managed to average about 5th or 6th place over a decent period of time. That has been punctuated with some lower finishes but also some decent ones as well. We shall see whether we gravitate back to our natural position in the food chain. If fans are happy with that consistency then good for them. I'm not.

 

[Baleforce]

How I would put your argument is that ENIC haven't had enough football or even sport people running our club. At every point of inflexion in the last 20 years that has been our undoing. The root cause has been that quartet of Levy, Collecott, Cullen and Caplehorn. Deep down, I think Levy knows that is the problem which is why he tried to get Trevor Birch in 2019. He's then turned to Munn and most recently Venkatesham to supplement the team. It's not as if Levy is blessed with much football DNA either. He has something that is nurtured through a long tenure but I still wouldn't want him anywhere near a football decision. Nor should he as part owner and chairman. He needs to hire the right leaders for that. Money gets you a lot of the way. You still need football DNA though.

I stand a little corrected that we've managed to average about 5th or 6th place over a decent period of time. That has been punctuated with some lower finishes but also some decent ones as well. We shall see whether we gravitate back to our natural position in the food chain. If fans are happy with that consistency then good for them. I'm not.

Was that our undoing, or our protection?

How many Michael Ricketts or Saido Berahino’s did it save us from?

How many clubs have spent beyond their means at points in time and then suffered for it massively. falling out of the PL completely.

Also, the idea that you need “football people” to make good decisions doesn’t wash with me. We hear the opinions of “football people” on coverage and commentary every week, most of them can’t construct a coherent sentence, yet we should rely on them to build our business strategy?

 

[Muttley]

Was that our undoing, or our protection?

How many Michael Ricketts or Saido Berahino’s did it save us from?

How many clubs have spent beyond their means at points in time and then suffered for it massively. falling out of the PL completely.

Also, the idea that you need “football people” to make good decisions doesn’t wash with me. We hear the opinions of “football people” on coverage and commentary every week, most of them can’t construct a coherent sentence, yet we should rely on them to build our business strategy?

Not footballers......football leaders. There is a massive difference. Our board hasn't been blessed with football people. Just look at the manager selections over 2 decades. It's not about spending above your means either. It is about running football operations optimally.

As I've mentioned many times. We are quite close at the moment. That is not our current problem and hopefully wont be moving forward if we've changed the guard a little around Levy.

 

[Baleforce]

Not footballers......football leaders. There is a massive difference. Our board hasn't been blessed with football people. Just look at the manager selections over 2 decades. It's not about spending above your means either. It is about running football operations optimally.

As I've mentioned many times. We are quite close at the moment. That is not our current problem and hopefully wont be moving forward if we've changed the guard a little around Levy.

I think the manager selections, other than Sherwood* and Ange have all been highly logical.

*I think it’s possible Levy knew he was a taco and put him in as manager so he could get rid, having lined Poch up already.

 

[Mikey10]

This is a very good listen on our finances. It’s a conversation with The Athletic’s football finance expert.