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ENIC

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

One thing that does interest me though, I'm interested in to why people believe Poch will get 5 years of his contact or even half that considering the same guff was spouted by the club when we signed AVB, i.e. here for the long term, want to build something, change the style of play etc.

Sadly, I think it will come down to one of two factors that decides Poch's long term future;

1) Can he get consistent top 5-6 finishes and ultimately get us a top 4 finish? Will multiple heavy defeats seal his fate like they did AVB's?

2) Will Poch fall out with Levy like AVB reportedley did? Will Poch get frustrated by players being signed that are not his choices?

In a couple of respects, I think Poch will be a much better fit for Levy:

1. He will not hand Levy a list of unrealistic targets and then furrow his brow and wobble his lower lip when Levy fails to buy them for him.

2. Unlike AVB, he will actually deliver on the promise of promoting academy graduates to the first team.

That's not to say that he is immune to Levy's trigger finger. Just that I think that Levy will afford him more patience. Not least because it's perfectly obvious that the squad that Poch has to work with isn't as good (currently, at least) as that enjoyed by his predecessors.

Besides which, I think even Levy must realise by now that he has to put his trust in a manager eventually.
 
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Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

Our regression has everything to do with the appointment of AVB and out horrific summer 2013 spending spree.

AVB made the same mistakes that he did at Chelsea, ripped the core out of our team and replaced ball players with rigid athletic players. If it wasn't for bale he would have been found out in his first season IMO as the Redknapp legacy wore off.

Shwerwood inherited this mess and did what he could with limited experience.

AVB was a shocking appointment in hindsight.

Yep, agreed. Some won't admit it tho because they liked AVB and hated Sherwood. In my mind Sherwood has little or nothing to do with our predicament now. He didn't buy anyone, didn't sell anyone, he inherited everything, was inserted mid-season, did a temporary job for 5-6 months, and in his first gig as a rookie we finished 6th and in Europa, (and with a crap bunch of players, I'm now hearing?), and helped develop Kane, etc a long the way. I mean, who cares? He did ok as a caretaker and handed over the reigns. Its not like a 6 month stint has set us back 20 years. A 'mentally destroyed mess'? Give me a break. He did all that damage in a short space of time? Really? Meanwhile Poch will need a whole bunch of time to do or change anything because it will be too soon to judge or implement anything? Funny how this was a 'very good squad' under Sherwood (and 6th was a disappointment), and yet now the same players are crap. Nah, this was a good situation for Poch to come in to...and if it wasn't he shouldn't/wouldn't have came. By the way, anything Sherwood did or didn't do or left behind lies squarely at the feet of Levy cos he chose and fired AVB.
 
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Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

Yep, agreed. Some won't admit it tho because they liked AVB and hated Sherwood. In my mind Sherwood has little or nothing to do with our predicament now. He didn't buy anyone, didn't sell anyone, did a temporary job for 5-6 months, and in his first gig as a rookie, we finished 6th and in Europa, and helped develop Kane, etc a long the way. I mean, who cares? He did ok as a caretaker and handed over the reigns. Its not like he set us back 20 years. A 'mentally destroyed mess'? Give me a break. This was a good situation for Poch to come in to, and if it wasn't he shouldn't have came. By the way, anything Sherwood did or didn't do or left behind lies squarely at the feet of Levy cos he chose and fired AVB.

True.

Sherwood isn't to blame for our current (possibly short term) woes.

But I still couldn't have tolerated him continuing to be our manager beyond the end of last season.
 
Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

I hear ya. And I was ok with him going too as I don't think he was ready.

But for those who hate him. why can't it just be...'Ok, didn't like him, but he was only here 5-6 months, so we dodged one, no big deal in the overall scheme of things, and we move on'...
 
Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

One thing that does interest me though, I'm interested in to why people believe Poch will get 5 years of his contact or even half that considering the same guff was spouted by the club when we signed AVB, i.e. here for the long term, want to build something, change the style of play etc.

Sadly, I think it will come down to one of two factors that decides Poch's long term future;

1) Can he get consistent top 5-6 finishes and ultimately get us a top 4 finish? Will multiple heavy defeats seal his fate like they did AVB's?

2) Will Poch fall out with Levy like AVB reportedley did? Will Poch get frustrated by players being signed that are not his choices?

Touched on this in another thread regarding Lamela, but this is probably a better place for it. Basically Levy needs to stop undermining managers and realise that when he doesn't agree on footballing matters it's more likely that the guy with x amount of coaching badges that works with the players everyday is right than he is.
 
Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

Touched on this in another thread regarding Lamela, but this is probably a better place for it. Basically Levy needs to stop undermining managers and realise that when he doesn't agree on footballing matters it's more likely that the guy with x amount of coaching badges that works with the players everyday is right than he is.

To be fair, we don't actually know that that is what is happening.

Levy's failure to sign Moutinho, Hulk, Oscar and Willian for AVB wasn't about undermining or disagreeing with his manager. It was simply that those players were, for varying reasons, out of our reach.

Similarly, Levy's failure to sign Schneiderlin and Musacchio was the consequence of external factors out of Levy's control.
 
Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

True.

Sherwood isn't to blame for our current (possibly short term) woes.

But I still couldn't have tolerated him continuing to be our manager beyond the end of last season.

Yeah - any supposed problems Sherwood caused re confidence or whatever is more what GB will have wanted to happen rather than what we can see has happened. Even if he did and i guess there are some things which could be pointed to to back up that thinking - it wouldn't have had any lasting effects as it was such a short period of time and most likely the players would have known he wasn't likely to continue beyond the summer.

the situation we're in now, squad wise, stretches way back further than Sherwood to the summer Redknapp left and our inability to rebuild the squad and also a lack of quality young players being signed the years previous
 
Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

Chadli scores that absolute sitter yesterday and we would now be in 5th place, ahead of Arsenal, Man Utd and victims with everyone ****ing over what a great job Poch is doing.

Please. Have some ****ing perspective on things.

We took just one point off the top 4 last season, we've already matched that now. We scored only two goals against them all year last season including in the cups, we've already matched that this season. If you can't see the difference between open games against City and victims in which we created chances but lost out to individual mistakes and poor refereeing decisions, compared with the equivalent of a heavyweight boxer pounding a disabled child's corpse into the ground like last season's performances were, then I cannot convince you of anything.

Do people really think there's a chance we might finish below teams like West Ham, Swansea and Hull? I mean really? Over a 38 game season, when cup games and injuries come into play? Southampton have done brilliantly - no doubt, but they have only equalled the start that Paul Jewell's Wigan made in 2005, and are doing worse than Phil Brown's Hull were doing at this stage in 2008, just before they finished 17th. To hear Koeman saying that they have a chance of finishing above Arsenal or victims today is really quite funny. If they're so good and we're so bad, how did we manage to deservedly beat them only a few weeks ago?

Levy is not stupid. He will have noticed that, instead of every player bar Bale under AVB and bar Adebayor under Sherwood, some of our players actually appear to be playing better than the previous year - with Rose, Chadli and Mason the obvious success stories. He will also have noticed that last season, the only chances we were creating even against some of the worst teams in the league were 30 yard Townsend pot shots because we had a complete lack of technical skill and movement in the final third, and because AVB and Sherwood were both really poor coaches. He will also have noticed that under Poch, we are moving the ball around quicker and creating far more clear goalscoring opportunities per game than before. Because whilst some of you last season expected those scrappy 1-0 wins to suddenly turn into us thrashing the smaller teams when all the new players "clicked", the smarter people amongst the fan base could see that we had nothing about us, and once the dodgy penalties that Soldado scored stopped getting awarded our way, there were some heavy defeats coming. Whereas now, given the number of proper chances we actually create every game, I think it's actually reasonable to expect that, if we carry on creating chances like this, eventually we're going to start battering teams. Villa just lost to QPR, their fans will expect them to come out and attack us at home, that would be a good place to start.

It's been said before, but Rodgers had the worst start a victims manager has ever had, and oversaw their worst start to a season since 1911. Reason being? He was taking time to implement a new passing philosophy. It wasn't until the players got the hang of it and he'd added Sturrige and Coutinho that it all really clicked. Pellegrini also lost to Cardiff, Villa and Sunderland in his first few games at City. Van Gaal took five points from a start that featured games against Swansea, Burnley, Sunderland, QPR and Leicester, as well as losing 4-0 to MK Dons. That doesn't mean that starting badly is "acceptable", but it's nothing to panic about if there's clear progress being made. And Levy will have noticed that we're playing better football now than any time in the previous two seasons, bar when Bale had the ball.

Great post. I think 3-4 squad alterations will make the world of difference and I only hope that is allowed to happen.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
 
Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

Levy has to prove he has the bottle to back Poch even if we hang around between 7th and mid table for a season or two. This has to be Levy's last chance, if he sacks Poch then Levy has to step down too surely.
 
Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

To be fair, we don't actually know that that is what is happening.

Levy's failure to sign Moutinho, Hulk, Oscar and Willian for AVB wasn't about undermining or disagreeing with his manager. It was simply that those players were, for varying reasons, out of our reach.

Similarly, Levy's failure to sign Schneiderlin and Musacchio was the consequence of external factors out of Levy's control.

But the fall out they had over Levy wanting him to play 2 up front was.
 
Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

Sadly this. We have gone backwards and have wasted a large amount of the Bale money, it could and perhaps will set us back years. Not writing off Poch off yet but I am not expecting anything higher than 6th, in fact, I think 6th would be an excellent season. I actually think we will finish 7th or 8th.

I really have full confidence in Poch, but I would be absolutely gutted if we missed out on EL.

I'm still pretty confident we will finish ahead of Everton (6th) and possibly one of United or victims (5th).



Great post. I think 3-4 squad alterations will make the world of difference and I only hope that is allowed to happen.

I think 2 would do it. Rodriguez in for Lennon and Moreno/Musacchio in for Chiriches + Kaboul.

Walker, Stambouli and Fazio also haven't contributed to the season yet, but will do
 
Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

Where's that come from? Can't say it sounds realistic to me

Was reported in a fair few news sources following the sacking. I thought it was fairly common knowledge. The press picked it up as him refusing to play Adebayor (which may also be true), but the conversation was initiated by Levy suggesting 2 up front.

Google brought up the below;

http://www.theweek.co.uk/football/premier-league/56550/why-did-spurs-sack-avb-levy-and-adebayor-hold-key

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/andre-villasboas-sacked-avb-seals-his-fate-at-spurs-by-rejecting-emmanuel-adebayor-9009034.html

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1890544-andre-villas-boas-reportedly-refused-chance-to-save-his-tottenham-job
 
Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

cheers

i do recall it now i've read the links. taking everything in to account i think there was more to AVBs departure than any one sticking point. even so - as the article say it's the infamous 'insid information' situation with regards to this particular point.
 
Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

Their final meeting where Levy supposedly suggested AVB should try playing 2 up front, AVB disagrees and then decides the job's not for him anymore.

Even if that is true, I would hardly describe having a conversation and making suggestions (however uninformed or lacking in understanding) as "undermining" the manager.

If Levy ordered him to play two up front, that would be another matter. But there's no suggestion of that.
 
Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

Yep, agreed. Some won't admit it tho because they liked AVB and hated Sherwood. In my mind Sherwood has little or nothing to do with our predicament now. He didn't buy anyone, didn't sell anyone, he inherited everything, did a temporary job for 5-6 months, and in his first gig as a rookie we finished 6th and in Europa, (and with a crap bunch of players, I'm now hearing?), and helped develop Kane, etc a long the way. I mean, who cares? He did ok as a caretaker and handed over the reigns. Its not like a 6 month stint has set us back 20 years. A 'mentally destroyed mess'? Give me a break. He did all that damage in a short space of time? Really? Meanwhile Poch will need a whole bunch of time to do or change anything because it will be too soon to judge or implement anything? Funny how this was a 'very good squad' under Sherwood (and 6th was a disappointment), and yet now the same players are crap. Nah, this was a good situation for Poch to come in to...and if it wasn't he shouldn't have came. By the way, anything Sherwood did or didn't do or left behind lies squarely at the feet of Levy cos he chose and fired AVB.

A fair assessment. I think if Sherwood had been acknowledged as interim coach, which we mostly assumed or hoped he was, the reaction would have been different. It was the supposed permanent appointment and the lost opportunity for an upgrade that upset people.

In retrospect the AVB appointment was a mistake in hindsight as he repeated his errors at Chelsea, but it wasn't unreasonable to assume that he would have learnt and not played the high line with the wrong personnel and not antagonised/exclused senior players.

In some ways it is a good sign that Poch is not replicating his Southampton system at the moment. If he doesn't think he has the right players then it would be pretty dumb. Either he will get the players and gradually shift to "his" system or he will come up with a system that suits the players.
 
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Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

It took 9 months for Poch to get Soton playing his way. And he inherited a really healthy club/team then, compared to the mentally destroyed mess Timmeh left behind.

You do talk *******s sometimes.... Sherwood left Pochettino a team that finished 6th and a team that was the 5th best team from the point at which he took over onwards. A team that beat Pochettino's (settled) Southampton team TWICE last season. Not only that but he did it with exactly the same squad that AVB left him. If anybody inherited a mentally destroyed mess then it was Sherwood himself.

Stop inventing arguments to suit your viewpoint.
 
Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

If Poch goes, I hope Levy and the rest of the people at ENIC follow him out the damn door. Other than that, there is little to say with regards to the problems at the club that need to be fixed.
 
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