ENIC

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

Yeah man, it has. I even have Spurs-supporting mates who all banged on about how they were ready to be patient and back the manager, but they are already starting to turn on the manager/team/everyone.

It is really sad to see this scenario happening, but worst of alll... I was expecting it. IMHO We have too many fans who have over-inflated expectations, no patience and a lack of perspective.

The worst thing is that this scenario helps absolutely no-one and worst of all, damages the most important thing: the team.

I don't know how we solve it, other than going down like we did in '77 and trimming the fat (I'm sure they'll all quickly abandon ship then). Mind you, as City have found, they all tend to come back with a vengeance.

Abolishing season tickets and putting everything on general sale might help (with prices decreasing the more you buy to build up the same discount for loyalty), so everyone at a match has actively chosen to be there, but the club would never give up that guaranteed income.

 

[Joesh]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

Southampton have started the season like a team with nothing to lose and little expectations which often allows teams to perform so much better. Here there is always expectation and pressure which our team doesn't thrive on. It reminds me of when Cisse signed for Saudi Sportswashing Machine and scored for fun, we all hammered our scouting team for missing out and now he is hardly a superstar.

For me, results were going to be up and down, but before the start of the season we were all told about this high intensity training and a high energy approach. Where is the evidence of this??? We don't hunt in packs or close down high up which I expected. We still can go 60-70mins without a shot on target?? Our defence has not improved, our home form has carried on like last year and our attack is still weak.

Is 9 games impatient? Nobody is asking for the guy to be sacked but you need some evidence of change and we seem to be all talk at the moment.

 

[Baleforce]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

- Dempsey was getting on and Chadli is as effective as him.
- Dawson was getting on and Fazio should be as effective as him.
- Huddlestone had fitness issues and his departure has given room for Mason and Bentaleb to emerge.
- Livermore was a very limited player - nowhere near as good as Capoue.
- Defoe hadn't been effective in the league for years and was on a completely different wavelength to any half-intelligent AM.
- And Siggy was about out 7th choice CM last year and is only effective because he's given more space at Swansea than any team would ever afford us.

These are all good points on paper, the fact of the matter is that its not being borne out on the pitch. To take them in turn, Chadli has not been as effective as Dempsey, we are a car crash at the back as we have no leadership, we were better with Dawson despite his lack of pace, yes Hudd has made way for Mason and Bentaleb, but he'd do a better job than Dembele for example. Capoue isn't doing it. Adebayor. Siggy has his faults, but even out of position for us he offered a greater goal threat than our current attacking team.

You can't drop a whole team of potential on a pitch and hope it works out, you need to mix some safe options in there.

 

[The Portugeezer]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

It's not just Rodgers or Poch at Soton. To initiate a revolution you often appear to go backwards before you make forward strides.

People forget that Bill Nicholson took over us in 6th place and we finished his first season 18th (in a 22 team league with 2 relegation spots). The season after we finished 3rd. The season after we were champions.

Burkinshaw got relegated in his first season in charge, but he was making the structural reforms we needed and was backed to implement his vision.

We're trying to do a proper job this time, rather than more papering over the cracks.

Looks like you're under the illusion Poch is the next Nicholson and Burkinshaw! Let's get real here, Poch's no Nicholson and Burkinshaw, he's an average manager. Just look at where Southampton are in the league. They are doing better without him! I reckon we missed a trick with Koeman.

 

[milo]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

Looks like you're under the illusion Poch is the next Nicholson and Burkinshaw! Let's get real here, Poch's no Nicholson and Burkinshaw, he's an average manager. Just look at where Southampton are in the league. They are doing better without him! I reckon we missed a trick with Koeman.

It's a bit early in his career to judge how good a coach Poch is and unless the league has been shortened to a handful of games, I am not sure that Southampton's current league position is a fair judge of Koeman and Poch's abilities. By that measure Jewell, Brown and Holloway are better managers than Van Gaal.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

Looks like you're under the illusion Poch is the next Nicholson and Burkinshaw! Let's get real here, Poch's no Nicholson and Burkinshaw, he's an average manager. Just look at where Southampton are in the league. They are doing better without him! I reckon we missed a trick with Koeman.

I like Pochettino. I like how his teams play......once he gets them playing as he wants them to. Bielsa style football is great to watch.

Clearly, this bunch of Spurs players aren't playing anything like a Pochettino team yet. And maybe the problem is that too many of them aren't capable of it. In which case, just for once, I'd like to see us getting rid of the guilty players rather than the manager. Get rid of the disease that appears to be endemic to the club. If it means making a big financial loss on a lot of players, so be it. Just keep the rump of players who do have the required ability and attitude. We need to start with a clean slate and build from the bottom.

The good news is that we finally have an academy that is producing players good enough to play for Spurs. Bring them on. It will allow us to sign fewer players but greater quality players. It's not beyond imagination that, within the next five years, more than half our team could be academy graduates. And that would mean a team that genuinely cares. I'd love that. We all would. But it will only happen if we give them a chance. And Poch is a manager who has shown that he will do just that.

As to Koeman, he has a mixed record as a manager. Far too early to tell whether or not this is just a brief honeymoon period.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

This Saudi Sportswashing Machine result have made people crazy. There's no realism any more. People want change , they want success but they want it yesterday.

That, and the internet, radio football phone-ins and SSFN.

There was a time when you'd go to the game on the Saturday, moan about it with your mates at the pub that night and then move on.

Now the saturation coverage has the effect of elongating time between games, where every detailed is pored over every day until the next game. It makes change seem slower.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

Looks like you're under the illusion Poch is the next Nicholson and Burkinshaw! Let's get real here, Poch's no Nicholson and Burkinshaw, he's an average manager. Just look at where Southampton are in the league. They are doing better without him! I reckon we missed a trick with Koeman.

It's a bit early in his career to judge how good a coach Poch is and unless the league has been shortened to a handful of games, I am not sure that Southampton's current league position is a fair judge of Koeman and Poch's abilities. By that measure Jewell, Brown and Holloway are better managers than Van Gaal.

Yep, it's a bit like insisting your dinner's not cooked but you've taken it out of the oven early.

 

[Yermiyahu]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

begin?

Fair point.

 

[jts1882]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

I think the people saying we have a good young squad that needs time have it right. Obviously Poch needs to get them playing well as a teams so we have a good team rather than a collection of individuals and we aren't there yet. We have seen some promising signs recently, though.

The other problem is that the players are much of a muchness. What a good squad needs is for a few players to begin to stand out and to form crucial partnerships, then the rest are good enough to make up an effective teams. In the outfield its only really Erikson who has consistently done so. When we look at the squad it's not obvious which should be in the starting XI. There is no Bale or Modric. However, think back and the "jinx" Bale was an injury away from going out on loan and Modric was too light-weight for the centre, before another injury pushed him into the centre for the toughest part of our CL-qualifying season. Most of our new players of the last two summers have shown glimpses - even Paulinho has shown the ability to get in goal-scoring positions - so once Poch has the teamwork sorted we just have to hope a few players step up.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

Southampton have started the season like a team with nothing to lose and little expectations which often allows teams to perform so much better. Here there is always expectation and pressure which our team doesn't thrive on. It reminds me of when Cisse signed for Saudi Sportswashing Machine and scored for fun, we all hammered our scouting team for missing out and now he is hardly a superstar.

For me, results were going to be up and down, but before the start of the season we were all told about this high intensity training and a high energy approach. Where is the evidence of this??? We don't hunt in packs or close down high up which I expected. We still can go 60-70mins without a shot on target?? Our defence has not improved, our home form has carried on like last year and our attack is still weak.

Is 9 games impatient? Nobody is asking for the guy to be sacked but you need some evidence of change and we seem to be all talk at the moment.

It took 9 months for Poch to get Soton playing his way. And he inherited a really healthy club/team then, compared to the mentally destroyed mess Timmeh left behind.

Looks like you're under the illusion Poch is the next Nicholson and Burkinshaw! Let's get real here, Poch's no Nicholson and Burkinshaw, he's an average manager. Just look at where Southampton are in the league. They are doing better without him! I reckon we missed a trick with Koeman.

It's Swansea Rodgers vs Laudrup.

It initially looked like Swansea were laughing having got Laudrup in and continued to grow. But in reality Martinez and Rodgers had done such a good job that he was just being carried by their momentum. The same will happen with Koeman IMO. It might not be till next season, but the wheels will come off sooner or later.

 

[Ade's folks are ok really]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

Some of us need to realise (and quick!) that we're just not that team anymore. We dont have the world beaters that Bale, Modders, VdV were…far from it. There are players in that squad with the capabilities but we're far from it yet.

The sooner we stop trying to pretend we're top 5 challengers, or even that finishing 6-7 is our GHod given right at Tottenham, the better. We have gone several steps backwards whilst the likes of Everton have solidified and the others above have progressed again. Even those below us traditionally are making good steps. We are going to lose home games we shouldn't, because WHL is no longer a fortress of clean sheets that it was a few years back and our players are average-good at best.

Let's stop pretending otherwise and suck up the crappy results whilst we sort our **** out!!!

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

Some of us need to realise (and quick!) that we're just not that team anymore. We dont have the world beaters that Bale, Modders, VdV were…far from it. There are players in that squad with the capabilities but we're far from it yet.

The sooner we stop trying to pretend we're top 5 challengers, or even that finishing 6-7 is our GHod given right at Tottenham, the better. We have gone several steps backwards whilst the likes of Everton have solidified and the others above have progressed again. Even those below us traditionally are making good steps. We are going to lose home games we shouldn't, because WHL is no longer a fortress of clean sheets that it was a few years back and our players are average-good at best.

Let's stop pretending otherwise and suck up the crappy results whilst we sort our **** out!!!

Sadly this. We have gone backwards and have wasted a large amount of the Bale money, it could and perhaps will set us back years. Not writing off Poch off yet but I am not expecting anything higher than 6th, in fact, I think 6th would be an excellent season. I actually think we will finish 7th or 8th.

 

[NorwegianSpursFan]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

Sadly this. We have gone backwards and have wasted a large amount of the Bale money, it could and perhaps will set us back years. Not writing off Poch off yet but I am not expecting anything higher than 6th, in fact, I think 6th would be an excellent season. I actually think we will finish 7th or 8th.

I think this is also part of the reason we've been getting tonked by the good teams the last two years. We're not good enough to attack them and play them at their own game, but we've been trying anyway. Against arsenal it looked like we realised this and played a more defensive counterattacking game.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

One thing that does interest me though, I'm interested in to why people believe Poch will get 5 years of his contact or even half that considering the same guff was spouted by the club when we signed AVB, i.e. here for the long term, want to build something, change the style of play etc.

Sadly, I think it will come down to one of two factors that decides Poch's long term future;

1) Can he get consistent top 5-6 finishes and ultimately get us a top 4 finish? Will multiple heavy defeats seal his fate like they did AVB's?

2) Will Poch fall out with Levy like AVB reportedley did? Will Poch get frustrated by players being signed that are not his choices?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

I think this is also part of the reason we've been getting tonked by the good teams the last two years. We're not good enough to attack them and play them at their own game, but we've been trying anyway. Against arsenal it looked like we realised this and played a more defensive counterattacking game.

Yep, I think we should approach all away games against the top teams like we did against Scum.

As for the home games, well, we have been waiting for years to finally come up with a solution to breaking teams down who sit back at WHL.

 

[milo]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

One thing that does interest me though, I'm interested in to why people believe Poch will get 5 years of his contact or even half that considering the same guff was spouted by the club when we signed AVB, i.e. here for the long term, want to build something, change the style of play etc.

Sadly, I think it will come down to one of two factors that decides Poch's long term future;

1) Can he get consistent top 5-6 finishes and ultimately get us a top 4 finish? Will multiple heavy defeats seal his fate like they did AVB's?

2) Will Poch fall out with Levy like AVB reportedley did? Will Poch get frustrated by players being signed that are not his choices?

It will end one of two ways. If he does well he will get offered bigger jobs, if he does badly he will get the sack. Let's hope that it is the former but either way I cannot see him being with us for more than three seasons.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

It will end one of two ways. If he does well he will get offered bigger jobs, if he does badly he will get the sack. Let's hope that it is the former but either way I cannot see him being with us for more than three seasons.

What would you or what would you think Levy would class as poor? Let's just keep it league positions and possibly cup form rather than delve in to it too deeply.

 

[LCLC]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

It took 9 months for Poch to get Soton playing his way. And he inherited a really healthy club/team then, compared to the mentally destroyed mess Timmeh left behind.

Our regression has everything to do with the appointment of AVB and out horrific summer 2013 spending spree.

AVB made the same mistakes that he did at Chelsea, ripped the core out of our team and replaced ball players with rigid athletic players. If it wasn't for bale he would have been found out in his first season IMO as the Redknapp legacy wore off.

Shwerwood inherited this mess and did what he could with limited experience.

AVB was a shocking appointment in hindsight.

 

[milo]

Re: Daniel Levy isn't stupid...

What would you or what would you think Levy would class as poor? Let's just keep it league positions and possibly cup form rather than delve in to it too deeply.

I'm not too bothered about league position this season as long as we are making progress in terms of performances.

I doubt that Levy is in a hurry to find another manager and unless things go horribly wrong, I do not think that Poch will be judged against short term targets.