ENIC

[Grays_1890]

I believe Tony Bloom has spent 400m of his own money on Brighton to get them up the leagues, including a lot of his own money in the Amex Stadium.

That earns him a pass Levy cannot match - it's the difference and the reason why Bloom is a better owner of Brighton than ENIC are at Spurs. They will finish higher than us after being close to dropping out of the Football League at the time ENIC were taking over Spurs - since Bloom took over in 2009, he built them a new stadium, got them up and then kept them up.

The randomness of football is a fair point, but let's be clear here - Tony Bloom is a smarter, more ambitious owner and chairman than Levy will ever be. It's not even close.

Of course, and I won't disagree with alot of that but as I have said if Tony Bloom can't keep the players who are being highly converted and back the manager with the clear 2/3 players they only need to really push on, does the money he has already put in matter?

The argument levelled at us when we reached that point was we lacked ambition, surely if they decide to sell the crown jewels and just exist in mid table, the same must be levelled at them? If people of course are being consistent in their judgements.

Personally I think they will sell and reinvest and keep a status quo around 5th and 6th, like we did at the same time that we had the same break out.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Of course, and I won't disagree with alot of that but as I have said if Tony Bloom can't keep the players who are being highly converted and back the manager with the clear 2/3 players they only need to really push on, does the money he has already put in matter?

The argument levelled at us when we reached that point was we lacked ambition, surely if they decide to sell the crown jewels and just exist in mid table, the same must be levelled at them? If people of course are being consistent in their judgements.

Personally I think they will sell and reinvest and keep a status quo around 5th and 6th, like we did at the same time that we had the same break out

Sure, and I don't disagree with that either. Just saying that Bloom gets a far bigger pass because he put his money where his mouth is - Levy has not done so to the same extent, and is basically worthless to us as a club outside of being a mediocre hand on the tiller.

As for Brighton aiming for 5th/6th, for them it's the highest they have ever been as a club. In their entire history, these are the halcyon days.

For us, 5th/6th is par for the course - we have been higher, and built a tradition around daring to dream. Our halcyon days saw titles and cups, not scraping around in 5th/6th. For all these reasons, what is a disappointment to us means a lot to Brighton, so I don't think the two are the same, mate.

 

[elltrev]

I believe Tony Bloom has spent 400m of his own money on Brighton to get them up the leagues, including a lot of his own money in the Amex Stadium.

That earns him a pass Levy cannot match - it's the difference and the reason why Bloom is a better owner of Brighton than ENIC are at Spurs. They will finish higher than us after being close to dropping out of the Football League at the time ENIC were taking over Spurs - since Bloom took over in 2009, he built them a new stadium, got them up and then kept them up.

The randomness of football is a fair point, but let's be clear here - Tony Bloom is a smarter, more ambitious owner and chairman than Levy will ever be. It's not even close.

But Daniel Levy doesn't have £400m of his own money, right? Surely it's Joe lewis that you should be aiming more of your ire at than Levy?

 

[DubaiSpur]

But Daniel Levy doesn't have £400m of his own money, right? Surely it's Joe lewis that you should be aiming more of your ire at than Levy?

Oh yeah, no argument there. My grudge is against ENIC as a whole - both Lewis and his mediocre deadweight of a henchman. But Levy is nominally our 'chairman', the same position Bloom occupies, so the comparison was based on that.

 

[Grays_1890]

Sure, and I don't disagree with that either. Just saying that Bloom gets a far bigger pass because he put his money where his mouth is - Levy has not done so to the same extent, and is basically worthless to us as a club outside of being a mediocre hand on the tiller.

As for Brighton aiming for 5th/6th, for them it's the highest they have ever been as a club. In their entire history, these are the halcyon days.

For us, 5th/6th is par for the course - we have been higher, and built a tradition around daring to dream. Our halcyon days saw titles and cups, not scraping around in 5th/6th. For all these reasons, what is a disappointment to us means a lot to Brighton, so I don't think the two are the same, mate.

Not 100% like for like I agree, but Brighton are at that crossroads we found ourselves at ala my original post and have every opportunity we had to push on, should they wish to, thats true regardless of the past. Interestingly I just read a Paul Barber article saying that the money borrowed would need to be paid back and the club needs to find a way to be more sustainable, probably more PL parallels there to our situation back 10/15 years ago than people maybe think.

Anyway as always mate, enjoyed that exchange, alot more engaging than alot of the other stuff I read.

 

[Bishop]

And that's the hindsight perspective (which is always 100%)

For another (and I'm not saying it's right, just a view), Jose was when the stadium was coming online, this was the moment the club had been waiting 15 years for, additional money to spend, the pressure of the "almost years" and the length of time since last trophy was telling, you also had Son & Kane at their absolute prime, Lloris still good, last chance to milk something out of this squad. Who better to give a 24 month run (neither Jose or Conte stay), back with some money, grab a trophy, get the monkey off the back and then move on to the next stage, rebuild, life post the CL squad.

Jose got fudged by Covid, then we doubled down on the approach with Conte.

Bad call for sure, but to say it was without some kind of logic/perspective is disingenuous. It's funny but I actually think after 20 odd years of playing the long game, Levy lost his patience at exactly the wrong time.

You're not listening. It's not hindsight when it was said and questioned at the time. If I predict you're going to fall, trip and fall on your face and you subsequently do so you can't then say oh you're saying it in hindsight.

Some people had serious concerns about those appointments and suggested as such at the time. You can't just brush that aside and say it's just hindsight now.

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[Bishop]

Let's say we replaced Nuno with eg Potter or Rodgers and it failed by now, and the rumour spread that at the time Conte was available to replace Nuno and we didn't go for it. Full meltdown?

No because I never felt Conte was a good fit for the role. I don't buy into names or reputations. I follow how a coach fits, their philosophy, their model etc. I'm perfectly happy having a lower profile coach such as Slot if his model actually suits and fits the model the club pursues. That was never the case with Mourinho or Conte.

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[Gazza Dazzla]

You're not listening. It's not hindsight when it was said and questioned at the time. If I predict you're going to fall, trip and fall on your face and you subsequently do so you can't then say oh you're saying it in hindsight.

Some people had serious concerns about those appointments and suggested as such at the time. You can't just brush that aside and say it's just hindsight now.

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Some people have had concerns about every single appointment we’ve made. No managerial appointment will be 100% universally liked by all the fan base.

 

[Grays_1890]

Some people have had concerns about every single appointment we’ve made. No managerial appointment will be 100% universally liked by all the fan base.

And as I said yesterday, as all managers end up sacked, especially at Spurs it's hardly going to make you the next inline for MOTD with such bold predictions.

I think, as again I said yesterday, I would have been more impressed had these people predicted such a catastrophic meltdown post Norwich last season. Still open to be impressed if anyone can pull up a post

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[Bishop]

Some people have had concerns about every single appointment we’ve made. No managerial appointment will be 100% universally liked by all the fan base.

That's absolutely fine, but you can't then characterise those concerns as just being hindsight.

I for example was fine with the eventual appointment of Nuno (the type of coach we should have gone for directly after Poch imo). Now Nuno obviously didn't work but you won't see me criticising ENIC for appointing him now. That would be hindsight as I didn't have an issue at the time.


hindsight
/ˈhʌɪn(d)sʌɪt/
noun
understanding of a situation or event only after it has happened or developed.
"with hindsight, I should never have gone"


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[ricky2tricky4city]

I believe Tony Bloom has spent 400m of his own money on Brighton to get them up the leagues, including a lot of his own money in the Amex Stadium.

That earns him a pass Levy cannot match - it's the difference and the reason why Bloom is a better owner of Brighton than ENIC are at Spurs. They will finish higher than us after being close to dropping out of the Football League at the time ENIC were taking over Spurs - since Bloom took over in 2009, he built them a new stadium, got them up and then kept them up.

The randomness of football is a fair point, but let's be clear here - Tony Bloom is a smarter, more ambitious owner and chairman than Levy will ever be. It's not even close.

Post moving into the Amex It took them 6 seasons to get out of the championship with FOUR failed attempts at the play offs. I'd like to read the DubaiSeagull posts on their equivalent message boards for that period.

It's only since Potter arrived that they've looked any good and even his finishes are 15th 16th and 9th.

Flavour of the month they are.

Bloom is a good owner but D.ick Knight did much much more for them.

 

[parklane1]

Some people have had concerns about every single appointment we’ve made. No managerial appointment will be 100% universally liked by all the fan base.

I don't know how to use the like button for sure, there will always be doubts from fans about new manager appointments just like there is when we sign players. You then get fans saying that manager/player is brick and it will never work here and you get others saying the exact opposite.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Not 100% like for like I agree, but Brighton are at that crossroads we found ourselves at ala my original post and have every opportunity we had to push on, should they wish to, thats true regardless of the past. Interestingly I just read a Paul Barber article saying that the money borrowed would need to be paid back and the club needs to find a way to be more sustainable, probably more PL parallels there to our situation back 10/15 years ago than people maybe think.

Anyway as always mate, enjoyed that exchange, alot more engaging than alot of the other stuff I read.

Blooms wants paying back BUT he's quite willing to forego the loans to the club as I understand it. He and his family are historic Seagull fans.

 

[billyiddo]

Some people have had concerns about every single appointment we’ve made. No managerial appointment will be 100% universally liked by all the fan base.

Not really sure what the relevance of that is tbh - ask enough people whether to appoint Frank Lampard or not and some will say go ahead, does that mean it can only be criticised as a poor appointment in hindsight?

What should be happening here is that those of you who thought they were the right appointments at the time and subsequently proven wrong, should all be saying 'in hindsight i was wrong' not saying to those that got it bang on that it's only with the benefit of hindsight, I mean there's a fundamental lack of understanding of what the term means going on right now

 

[Raziel]

Post moving into the Amex It took them 6 seasons to get out of the championship with FOUR failed attempts at the play offs. I'd like to read the DubaiSeagull posts on their equivalent message boards for that period.

It's only since Potter arrived that they've looked any good and even his finishes are 15th 16th and 9th. Flavour of the month they are.

Bloom is a good owner but dingdong Knight did much much more for them.

So we can see if my hindsight works in 3-5 years

- What fans are failing to acknowledge is you/we don't know if Brighton/Bloom have cracked the code, are great/smart owners and you won't know for another 3-5 years
- What history/evidence suggests is it's nothing more than a moment in time, that we have seen this with 20 other clubs all the way back to Charlton and the most likely scenario is they will look good for a couple of seasons more (if lucky) then one of the squad refreshes/manager changes will not work out, then they will struggle to stay up for another year or two followed by the inevitable relegation.

£400M in investment is great as a Seagulls fan but seeing that is more than 2X their entire annual income (would be the equivalent of ENIC putting in £1B) it's not sustainable (unless it's state level money as source)

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Not really sure what the relevance of that is tbh

It’s a direct response to the post I replied to funnily enough

 

[billyiddo]

It’s a direct response to the post I replied to funnily enough

See my edited post - it doesn't really work as a response to what @Bishop was saying imo

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

No because I never felt Conte was a good fit for the role. I don't buy into names or reputations. I follow how a coach fits, their philosophy, their model etc. I'm perfectly happy having a lower profile coach such as Slot if his model actually suits and fits the model the club pursues. That was never the case with Mourinho or Conte.

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Fair enough. I can add you to the list of fans who refrain from basing arguments on big dollops of hindsight. (They'll not be many on that list)

 

[Grays_1890]

Blooms wants paying back BUT he's quite willing to forego the loans to the club as I understand it. He and his family are historic Seagull fans.

Yeh they have a long association, I worked with Ray Bloom in the events business for abit....properly nice bloke

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[SpurMeUp]

Sure, and I don't disagree with that either. Just saying that Bloom gets a far bigger pass because he put his money where his mouth is - Levy has not done so to the same extent, and is basically worthless to us as a club outside of being a mediocre hand on the tiller.

As for Brighton aiming for 5th/6th, for them it's the highest they have ever been as a club. In their entire history, these are the halcyon days.

For us, 5th/6th is par for the course - we have been higher, and built a tradition around daring to dream. Our halcyon days saw titles and cups, not scraping around in 5th/6th. For all these reasons, what is a disappointment to us means a lot to Brighton, so I don't think the two are the same, mate.

I think there is a stimulating comparison to be made with Brighton.

1. Most fans, probably yourself too, want Levy away from the football side. Yet Bloom is a numbers man who’s no doubt highly involved in transfers.

2. There was a period where other teams tried to emulate our transfer business. We’d signed Modric, Berbatov, Bale amongst others.

3. I think there is a strong argument that where we went wrong is moving away from the model where Spurs senior management were more involved and accountable on the footballing side.

Let’s no forgot fans love to capture a moment and extrapolate it as everything - when in reality things will shift each month. That said, the reason Brighton are excelling is because of their shrewd transfer business. We did what all fans were screaming for - moving the footballing side away from Levy. Yet we’ve possibly had one of the worse returns from our transfer investment with the Manager of Football model this year. Forster being lauded by Ali Good as our most successful signing when we spent in excess of 100m.

How we spent so much and neglected to strengthen the defence is worthy of investigation.

What do we take from this? We need stability. And I personally would welcome DLs greater involvement in the footballing side. History shows us that when he didn’t have the stadium project we behaved far more like Brighton and uncovered more gems. Times have changed and no doubt we need a dedicated footballing team. But as Brighton show, having an owner who cares deeply about transfers is critical. So much of success is dictated by who you sign, I would welcome greater input from levy into this critical area. The club has to improve this area with the owner taking charge, it is too important for the senior management not to be involved. That is how Brighton do it, and we have a past history of success in a similar mould. Now we have to update this model to be compatible with our current reality.