ENIC

[Grays_1890]

To be honest i do understand the angst of some fans about Levy and his ownership but there has to be a middle ground between the so called haters and the so called lovers. Of course he has made mistakes ( just like EVERYONE of us on here has in our life). After all he has had a major job to have built up what he has done over the years, i understand the frustrations of some of the anti Levy group because as i say he HAS made mistakes but for some of us we can also look at how far this club has come since he has been here.

Again to be honest ( apart from one or two posters on here) the criticisms on here are fair in general and as they say Stop! Hammer time. You get the Levy out phalanx saying those who support Levy think he is blameless for where we are at this moment which is gonad*s, of course he has made mistakes but i have never met ANYONE who does not make mistakes we all do it all the time.

I have been a supporter for a very long time and to see where my club is now is millions of miles away from what it used to be and a lot of that is down to Levy ( even though i admit he has made mistakes along the way). But as they say opinions are like arseholes everyone has one and where would the fun be if we all agreed.

Peace and Love.

Exactly spot on TBH

We can all accept that we have made mistakes, christ it's terrible now but that doesn't mean that absolutely everything has been terrible and it certainly doesn't mean we have to re-imagine the good that has been done.

Having the ability to step back and not be influenced by the noise, lazy lies and make rational judgements, does not make you a lover or a hater, those have been popularised lazy terms.





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[parklane1]

Exactly spot on TBH

We can all accept that we have made mistakes, christ it's terrible now but that doesn't mean that absolutely everything has been terrible and it certainly doesn't mean we have to re-imagine the good that has been done.

Having the ability to step back and not be influenced by the noise, lazy lies and make rational judgements, does not make you a lover or a hater, those have been popularised lazy terms.





Sent from my SM-A127F using Fapatalk

Indeed.

 

[nattenskonge]

I dont have many problems with Enic, my biggest problem with Levy is that I feel we do 90% and the last 10% is fcking us up. Like we get a top manager but dont give him the one player he needs, or we have a great team and we all se we just need a LB or a CD to maybe win something or we use the summer to get the player we need and it goes to hell in the end, just becouse we try to save some euros.. Its just the last push I feel they dont want to do…

 

[Raziel]

Spurs had the 5th highest revenue in the PL in the season before ENIC took over from Sugar.

1. Man Utd
2. Chelsea
3. Arsenal
4. Leeds
5. Tottenham
6. Liverpool.

For some reason many on here seem to have this idea that Spurs didn't have high revenues prior to ENIC taking over.

Because context matters

- Liverpool had a one off bad financial season the year before, they were ahead of us the previous years to that and corrected the year after
- Similar to Saudi Sportswashing Machine, took us almost 5 years to catch them

So the more fair picture is

- Spurs were 7th behind Leeds, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Arsenal, Chelsea
- Leeds would implode a few years after
- Chelsea would become the first money doping club with RA
- City would join the pack a decade later as 2nd money doping club
- And recently Saudi Sportswashing Machine

So a par review of performance is

- If all clubs were equally run, Spurs should be 8th now (City addition), 7th if you feel Leeds fudging up is luck
- You should calculate the literal billions of dollars of headstart the top 4 clubs in that first 20 years of PL/CL had, then

What was income now vs. then, from a gap perspective

Quick examples
- In 00/01, Arsenal €107M, Saudi Sportswashing Machine €91M, Chelsea €118M, Pool €137M, United €217M, Spurs €80M
- By 05/06, Arsenal €192M, Saudi Sportswashing Machine €124M, Chelsea €221M, Pool €176M, United €242M, Spurs €107M

So basically due the headstart others had, handicap we had, within the first few years, two clubs were earning double our revenue, two clubs were earning 70%-90% more per year

- In 22/23, Arsenal €433M, Saudi Sportswashing Machine €212M, Chelsea €568M, Pool €701M, United €688M, City €731, Spurs €523M, West Ham (next best club) €301M

So in the interim, we have passed and doubled our lead on Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Leeds has died, we passed Arsenal, we have effectively caught Chelsea, Pool (due to their 4 competition run last year have inflated numbers, usually below United) & United remain ahead but gap is closer, City is bogus (and officially under investigation).

But, hey, anybody could have done it ..

 

[Gazza]

Because context matters

- Liverpool had a one off bad financial season the year before, they were ahead of us the previous years to that and corrected the year after
- Similar to Saudi Sportswashing Machine, took us almost 5 years to catch them

So the more fair picture is

- Spurs were 7th behind Leeds, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Arsenal, Chelsea
- Leeds would implode a few years after
- Chelsea would become the first money doping club with RA
- City would join the pack a decade later as 2nd money doping club
- And recently Saudi Sportswashing Machine

So a par review of performance is

- If all clubs were equally run, Spurs should be 8th now (City addition), 7th if you feel Leeds fudging up is luck
- You should calculate the literal billions of dollars of headstart the top 4 clubs in that first 20 years of PL/CL had, then

What was income now vs. then, from a gap perspective

Quick examples
- In 00/01, Arsenal €107M, Saudi Sportswashing Machine €91M, Chelsea €118M, Pool €137M, United €217M, Spurs €80M
- By 05/06, Arsenal €192M, Saudi Sportswashing Machine €124M, Chelsea €221M, Pool €176M, United €242M, Spurs €107M

So basically due the headstart others had, handicap we had, within the first few years, two clubs were earning double our revenue, two clubs were earning 70%-90% more per year

- In 22/23, Arsenal €433M, Saudi Sportswashing Machine €212M, Chelsea €568M, Pool €701M, United €688M, City €731, Spurs €523M, West Ham (next best club) €301M

So in the interim, we have passed and doubled our lead on Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Leeds has died, we passed Arsenal, we have effectively caught Chelsea, Pool (due to their 4 competition run last year have inflated numbers, usually below United) & United remain ahead but gap is closer, City is bogus (and officially under investigation).

But, hey, anybody could have done it ..

No just and only levy. He's done well taking us to where we are currently ... but the way we have operated for matters on the pitch I don't think we will move forward ... let's see.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Wowzers...do you have a source for this?

Deloitte money league report from season 1999/2000.

 

[Finney Is Back]

You'll have to provide a wider period just to discount the probability of a company 'rude healthing' themselves before a sale.

Very difficult to inflate turnover - and the following season it still went up slightly even though the period was 11 months instead of 12 months (as ENIC moved the financial reporting end one month earlier).

 

[Bishop]

So here is where the disconnect is

- No one is saying Levy/ENIC haven't made errors
- Most people (there are few on a tangent) admit Levy/ENIC has made a significant positive difference to the club over the tenure
- Most people (again a few outliers) realize there is a limit to how much success you can achieve on a self funded model (hence agreement with ownership change may be required)

The above once we remove the emotion, most of us kinda of say .. yes

The challenge is when people harp on about mistakes the club has made, bad buys, bad managers, having a budget, whatever (and a lot are legitimate)

You're doing the same thing. You harp on about the positives as you see them. You're not objective despite what you might think. You're as biased as anyone on these matters.

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[viscount thurso]

You guys are talking about money!

Take a step back. Let’s just reset for a second.

Ask yourselves some basic questions.

Would you take another 20 years of the same "success"?

How much longer do we give the board until it’s enough?

Why is now not the right time?

Throughout our history, have we ever gone through trophy droughts like this?

When was the last time we won a major trophy? How is it that if we have spent so much money, that we have NOTHING to show for it? What is the reason?

Honestly, do you feel like Tottenham has become a joke in other supporters’ eyes?

If we were taken over, do you think that we would go into financial decline?

Do you think that others don't have the same business acumen? Because they havent run a successful business themselves?

Yes we are in a better position financially, you have to commend that. Levy is a fantastic business man.
But wouldnt you have swapped that for a few fa cups? For a league?

Ultimately,

What is it that I want from supporting spurs?

• Good football -is that enough?
• Financial stability - is that enough?
• Trophies? Trophies! Glory nights! Glory Glory nights!!

 

[elltrev]

Spurs had the 5th highest revenue in the PL in the season before ENIC took over from Sugar.

1. Man Utd
2. Chelsea
3. Arsenal
4. Leeds
5. Tottenham
6. Liverpool.

For some reason many on here seem to have this idea that Spurs didn't have high revenues prior to ENIC taking over.

Posted this in response to you before:

I've just looked at PL club revenue going back to 2001/2 (when Levy took over), thanks to the Deloitte Football Money League and Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League

And this graph shows how the top clubs' revenue has changed over those 20 years, from 01/02 (in blue) to 21/22 (in orange):

View attachment 14981

The y-axis represents each club's revenue as a % of the top club's revenue that year. So for example, in 01/02 our revenue was about 43% of the top club's (Man U at the time). And in 21/22 it's 71% of the current top club (Man C).

So we've leapfrogged Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Leeds and now earn more than double their revenue, overtaken Arsenal, and got close to Chelsea. Obviously Man C have leapfrogged us with their financial doping.

And Levy has achieved that whilst building a new stadium, and with little to no cash injection from the owner. He may not be perfect, but overall I think this represents impressive progress. If we could now get just a little bit of extra cash from the owner to keep getting Conte the players he wants and needs, maybe we could take that final step and win a top trophy.

 

[Grays_1890]

You guys are talking about money!

Take a step back. Let’s just reset for a second.

Ask yourselves some basic questions.

Would you take another 20 years of the same "success"?

How much longer do we give the board until it’s enough?

Why is now not the right time?

Throughout our history, have we ever gone through trophy droughts like this?

When was the last time we won a major trophy? How is it that if we have spent so much money, that we have NOTHING to show for it? What is the reason?

Honestly, do you feel like Tottenham has become a joke in other supporters’ eyes?

If we were taken over, do you think that we would go into financial decline?

Do you think that others don't have the same business acumen? Because they havent run a successful business themselves?

Yes we are in a better position financially, you have to commend that. Levy is a fantastic business man.
But wouldnt you have swapped that for a few fa cups? For a league?

Ultimately,

What is it that I want from supporting spurs?

• Good football -is that enough?
• Financial stability - is that enough?
• Trophies? Trophies! Glory nights! Glory Glory nights!!

I won't go point by point but keep it simple

Like any fan I want to win things whilst appreciating how difficult it is to win things, whilst also appreciating the progression the club has made on and off the pitch. Given that I have been to more finals and semi finals and European tours than anytime I have personally had as a supporter, I would have liked to have won more of those games and I would fairly lay the blame on not doing so on the collective of investment and decisions by players and management. I would also balance that by saying that for all the good the boards done they have also done alot of bad of which there are several examples given and currently being lived. That all said in summary the overall quality has in the last 20 years been better than the 10 years before it and we could have easily come out of it with more given the places we have put ourselves in, I am not bitter about it, my journey has been personal and I have had some great times in the last 20 years as I had the 20 years before they came, I am sure, given how football works I will also have them in the future, however they come. As for the rest I won't wind myself up about who the owners are as I can't do naff all about it and those that really care can't even be bothered to protest so its all abit of a howling at the moon wash.

As for what other fans think of us, I could not give a gnats chuff TBH

Up the Yids and fcuk the rest

 

[Raziel]

You guys are talking about money!

Take a step back. Let’s just reset for a second.

Ask yourselves some basic questions.

Would you take another 20 years of the same "success"?

How much longer do we give the board until it’s enough?

Why is now not the right time?

Throughout our history, have we ever gone through trophy droughts like this?

When was the last time we won a major trophy? How is it that if we have spent so much money, that we have NOTHING to show for it? What is the reason?

Honestly, do you feel like Tottenham has become a joke in other supporters’ eyes?

If we were taken over, do you think that we would go into financial decline?

Do you think that others don't have the same business acumen? Because they havent run a successful business themselves?

Yes we are in a better position financially, you have to commend that. Levy is a fantastic business man.
But wouldnt you have swapped that for a few fa cups? For a league?

Ultimately,

What is it that I want from supporting spurs?

• Good football -is that enough?
• Financial stability - is that enough?
• Trophies? Trophies! Glory nights! Glory Glory nights!!

So your answers

- Don't see us outspending City, United or Saudi Sportswashing Machine, probably Chelsea either, so not sure what else you are expecting in next 20 years

- Help me understand how it's up to you on how long the board gets?

- It's a great time if you got big money owners who wish to lose money every season, you know some? price ~£4B

- Yes, throughout our history we have won 17 major trophies in 141 years, ENIC's failure is missing the average by 1.2 trophies. The only really good dominant Spurs has had is the 60's. We had 40 years between FA cups wins as e.g. and we have won the league twice in 141 years

- Who cares, I swear the biggest issue with some supporters isn't our lack of success, it's poor me, I have to take banter from my mates, really, who gives a brick?

- If we got bought out in a leveraged model, e.g. what happened at United it could hurt us very badly financially, especially at current interest rates

- I'll reword your last one, would I swap Leicester's last 20 years for ours? = no

To the ultimately part

- Good football would be nice, and yes I enjoyed the BMJ, Harry & Poch eras even if it led to no trophies
- That part is done, the work to protect the club's future is fine, as long as we don't sell in a way that overleverages the club, we likely will never have those problems again
- 1 or 2 a decade would be nice, it's all we have ever done on average.

 

[viscount thurso]

So your answers

- Don't see us outspending City, United or Saudi Sportswashing Machine, probably Chelsea either, so not sure what else you are expecting in next 20 years

- Help me understand how it's up to you on how long the board gets?

- It's a great time if you got big money owners who wish to lose money every season, you know some? price ~£4B

- Yes, throughout our history we have won 17 major trophies in 141 years, ENIC's failure is missing the average by 1.2 trophies. The only really good dominant Spurs has had is the 60's. We had 40 years between FA cups wins as e.g. and we have won the league twice in 141 years

- Who cares, I swear the biggest issue with some supporters isn't our lack of success, it's poor me, I have to take banter from my mates, really, who gives a brick?

- If we got bought out in a leveraged model, e.g. what happened at United it could hurt us very badly financially, especially at current interest rates

- I'll reword your last one, would I swap Leicester's last 20 years for ours? = no

To the ultimately part

- Good football would be nice, and yes I enjoyed the BMJ, Harry & Poch eras even if it led to no trophies
- That part is done, the work to protect the club's future is fine, as long as we don't sell in a way that overleverages the club, we likely will never have those problems again
- 1 or 2 a decade would be nice, it's all we have ever done on average.

So you turn up to games and are indifferent whether we win or lose? Surely you have some emotion, some desire, some hunger to win a trophy, to be the best!? I just can't fathom how you can call yourself a fan when you say you'd be happy with another 20 years with 1.2 trophies? I mean saying it out loud makes me chuckle.

Do you go about your life aiming that low?

Do you have any ambition?

"The work to protect the club's future". Do you say that when you meet your friends... I don't care if you won a trophy last week, my club's future is secure! I can now go to the games and go home happy when we get tanked 6-1 because it doesn't matter really, we've still got another 10 years to keep up that average of 1.2 trophies!

I just don't get it.

Roll the dice a little. Risk it for the win.

 

[billyiddo]

Rolling the dice doesn't actually mean anything here you know? None of us have any input as to whether the club gets sold or whether or not someone wants to buy it

 

[DubSpur]

So you turn up to games and are indifferent whether we win or lose? Surely you have some emotion, some desire, some hunger to win a trophy, to be the best!? I just can't fathom how you can call yourself a fan when you say you'd be happy with another 20 years with 1.2 trophies? I mean saying it out loud makes me chuckle.

Do you go about your life aiming that low?

Do you have any ambition?

"The work to protect the club's future". Do you say that when you meet your friends... I don't care if you won a trophy last week, my club's future is secure! I can now go to the games and go home happy when we get tanked 6-1 because it doesn't matter really, we've still got another 10 years to keep up that average of 1.2 trophies!

I just don't get it.

Roll the dice a little. Risk it for the win.

I think you're mistaking what people want and what we should be aiming for with their realistic expectations.

 

[Raziel]

So you turn up to games and are indifferent whether we win or lose? Surely you have some emotion, some desire, some hunger to win a trophy, to be the best!? I just can't fathom how you can call yourself a fan when you say you'd be happy with another 20 years with 1.2 trophies? I mean saying it out loud makes me chuckle.

Do you go about your life aiming that low?

Do you have any ambition?

"The work to protect the club's future". Do you say that when you meet your friends... I don't care if you won a trophy last week, my club's future is secure! I can now go to the games and go home happy when we get tanked 6-1 because it doesn't matter really, we've still got another 10 years to keep up that average of 1.2 trophies!

I just don't get it.

Roll the dice a little. Risk it for the win.

This is why conversations are difficult, there are no less than 4 personal digs in your response

See @DubSpur's response because when you accuse people you don't know of not really being a fan, not having ambition, aiming low, my response would be slightly less polite

 

[parklane1]

This is why conversations are difficult, there are no less than 4 personal digs in your response

See @DubSpur's response because when you accuse people you don't know of not really being a fan, not having ambition, aiming low, my response would be slightly less polite

Is there a WUM about do you think.

 

[viscount thurso]

This is why conversations are difficult, there are no less than 4 personal digs in your response

See @DubSpur's response because when you accuse people you don't know of not really being a fan, not having ambition, aiming low, my response would be slightly less polite

I don't agree with you about what the future should hold for spurs fans, but for what it's worth I'm sorry if I caused offence.

 

[DTA]

So you turn up to games and are indifferent whether we win or lose? Surely you have some emotion, some desire, some hunger to win a trophy, to be the best!? I just can't fathom how you can call yourself a fan when you say you'd be happy with another 20 years with 1.2 trophies? I mean saying it out loud makes me chuckle.

Do you go about your life aiming that low?

Do you have any ambition?

"The work to protect the club's future". Do you say that when you meet your friends... I don't care if you won a trophy last week, my club's future is secure! I can now go to the games and go home happy when we get tanked 6-1 because it doesn't matter really, we've still got another 10 years to keep up that average of 1.2 trophies!

I just don't get it.

Roll the dice a little. Risk it for the win.

could I just ask what you do for a living?

not being a cûnt im genuinely interested.

 

[viscount thurso]

could I just ask what you do for a living?

not being a cûnt im genuinely interested.

Spurs chairman lol

Not willing to share on an internet forum. Sorry!

Can I ask what piqued your interest?