ENIC

[billyiddo]

I think you have made some good points, but levy and Enic are not the be all and end all ... if they continue with their current form ofcourse fans will not be happy.

In ten years time if we still are in the same place .. will you be saying we'll 30 years ago ...

Enic invested well in Tottenham but let's not get it twisted by thinking no one else could have pushed this club forward from sugar.

Someone could have, how much of a likelihood that is is up for debate - the argument that it would be quite a low chance is that at different times over the PL era Villa Leeds Saudi Sportswashing Machine Everton and West Ham have threatened to be the team to break the top 4 monopoly and none of them achieved it to the extent that we have, 4 of them have been relegated since and the other is perennial relegation candidate (our emergence as a top team along with City made the top four be reconsidered as the big 6) Whereas I'm not too sure what the argument is as to why the likelihood someone would have done as good/better over that time period actually is, beyond pointing out the bad decisions and missed opportunities that taken place over 20+ years

 

[Jurgen the German]

Why would I, for example, change my mind based on Mabbutt or Hoddles views?

I picked them because they are club legends whose words might carry more weight than some journo who supports Chelsea who has an axe to grind with Spurs apparently. Pretty clear some have an unshakable belief in ENIC and nothing will change their minds.

 

[Jurgen the German]

So here is where the disconnect is

- No one is saying Levy/ENIC haven't made errors
- Most people (there are few on a tangent) admit Levy/ENIC has made a significant positive difference to the club over the tenure
- Most people (again a few outliers) realize there is a limit to how much success you can achieve on a self funded model (hence agreement with ownership change may be required)

The above once we remove the emotion, most of us kinda of say .. yes

The challenge is when people harp on about mistakes the club has made, bad buys, bad managers, having a budget, whatever (and a lot are legitimate)

- Where is the example club that has done better over the same 20 year period, that either wasn't already established top 4 or money doping? and is still on the up?
- Where are the clubs in the same category that improved their infrastructure in that same category that wasn't a government gift?

So when the answer to the question to who has done better seems to be a sample size of zero, people who are acknowledging the positive side of ENIC's time are not shills/fan boys/happy clappers or whatever disrespectful brick people seem to need to come with when others disagree with them, it's a point of caution. It seems that the overwhelming attitude is "we have had 20 years, we are fed up and I'm willing to take a punt on literally anyone else" regardless of the fact that data/odds show that the "anyone else" unless it comes with money doping (has it's own implications) is most likely to be worse

Whilst a lot that is true, I think you’re missing the point whether intentional or unintentional. People have lost confidence in ENIC over the last few years. It’s not a case of literally anyone but ENIC and it’s a bit disingenuous to suggest that’s what people are advocating. It would have to be the right people like it would be when choosing the manager. As I keep saying, ENIC shouldn’t get a life pass. I truly wonder how many on here would stop following Spurs if ENIC were to sell up.

If Levy had employed someone who had made as many bad calls as he has over the last 4 years he would have fired him many times over.

 

[johnola]

I picked them because they are club legends whose words might carry more weight than some journo who supports Chelsea who has an axe to grind with Spurs apparently. Pretty clear some have an unshakable belief in ENIC and nothing will change their minds.

I get you. But we all have the same information and it’s perfectly acceptable to form different opinions around that.

I know there are those who see continued enic ownership as more of the same, but they do have scope to review their objectives and focus.

New owners will bring with them their own set of positive and negative actions.

And then there is the complete hopelessness of asking enic to sell when, as seems to be the case, they do not want to and still have plans to move forward.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I get you. But we all have the same information and it’s perfectly acceptable to form different opinions around that.

I know there are those who see continued enic ownership as more of the same, but they do have scope to review their objectives and focus.

New owners will bring with them their own set of positive and negative actions.

And then there is the complete hopelessness of asking enic to sell when, as seems to be the case, they do not want to and still have plans to move forward.

And I wouldn’t want anyone running the club, it’s not a case of anyone but ENIC. For example I wouldn’t want Mike Ashley anywhere near the club. And I also accept new owners comes with a risk but after more than 20 years I am willing to roll the dice.

 

[Gazza]

Just seems like ENIC have got their job done by increasing the value of the club and I'll happily say thanks for building the club to compete ... however I feel in my opinion they have hit their glass ceiling and we are in a rut at the moment.

I cant see them changing their strategy for matters on the pitch and have got found out. Playing money ball and hoping for the best is good when you are trying to catch the elite teams but they do need a change in their approach for them to truely want to be an elite club that genuinely want to be the best.

To dare is to do? Gosh it's embarrassing to have that motto ... it should read "To win would be nice"

 

[Grays_1890]

Enic invested well in Tottenham but let's not get it twisted by thinking no one else could have pushed this club forward from sugar.

Then why have they not done that at another club? And lets compare apples with apples and not talk sugar daddies? If there were other owners that could and would have had the foresight and energy to turn a dying commercial swan into a financial powerhouse at say, Leeds, Villa, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, West Ham etc then why did they not do it?

Lets also not get it twisted that we were an attractive prospect, thats why we cost 55m. There were many bigger clubs than us out there who have had more than one owner in that time and done alot worse than we have some having gone down and back up in that time so although your statement holds some truth it also does not tell the full story.

Talking about the infrastructure on its own, Its a stretch to suggest that an owner without deep financial pockets, aka not a Roman A or Sheikh would have come in and had the vision and drive to develop what was the Spurs back then into the self sustaining club you see today, people can say what they want about the trophies and lack of but if you think that there was another owner out there willing to have that vision and see that through, with the effort and sustained interest to do so and deliver on a commercial side, then I think you are lying to yourself slightly and the lack of on field success is masking your judgement.

For all the faults Levy and Enic have and man there are tons, the development of Spurs into the off field monster it is has no parallel in football anywhere in the world

I cant see them changing their strategy for matters on the pitch and have got found out. Playing money ball and hoping for the best is good when you are trying to catch the elite teams but they do need a change in their approach for them to truely want to be an elite club that genuinely want to be the best.

Thats not strictly true though is it? Again we can argue they have done things badly, yes they have but the strategy of build the club off the field and use the profits for the squad has been met and they are doing it, doing it badly at times yes but its a lie to suggest that any money made is not going back in because the financials prove it is.

 

[Raziel]

Whilst a lot that is true, I think you’re missing the point whether intentional or unintentional. People have lost confidence in ENIC over the last few years. It’s not a case of literally anyone but ENIC and it’s a bit disingenuous to suggest that’s what people are advocating. It would have to be the right people like it would be when choosing the manager. As I keep saying, ENIC shouldn’t get a life pass. I truly wonder how many on here would stop following Spurs if ENIC were to sell up.

If Levy had employed someone who had made as many bad calls as he has over the last 4 years he would have fired him many times over.

So you started with a legitimate discussion, I get it, I see it, but look a few posts down and someone is literally advocating a roll of the dice is fine

The highlighted part is unnecessary, I could as easily say they seem to be a lot of people on this board (closely aligned to the ENIC out) who seem to be more Poch fans than Spurs.

 

[Gazza]

Then why have they not done that at another club? And lets compare apples with apples and not talk sugar daddies? If there were other owners that could and would have had the foresight and energy to turn a dying commercial swan into a financial powerhouse at say, Leeds, Villa, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, West Ham etc then why did they not do it?

Lets also not get it twisted that we were an attractive prospect, thats why we cost 55m. There were many bigger clubs than us out there who have had more than one owner in that time and done alot worse than we have some having gone down and back up in that time so although your statement holds some truth it also does not tell the full story.

Talking about the infrastructure on its own, Its a stretch to suggest that an owner without deep financial pockets, aka not a Roman A or Sheikh would have come in and had the vision and drive to develop what was the Spurs back then into the self sustaining club you see today, people can say what they want about the trophies and lack of but if you think that there was another owner out there willing to have that vision and see that through, with the effort and sustained interest to do so and deliver on a commercial side, then I think you are lying to yourself slightly and the lack of on field success is masking your judgement.

For all the faults Levy and Enic have and man there are tons, the development of Spurs into the off field monster it is has no parallel in football anywhere in the world



Thats not strictly true though is it? Again we can argue they have done things badly, yes they have but the strategy of build the club off the field and use the profits for the squad has been met and they are doing it, doing it badly at times yes but its a lie to suggest that any money made is not going back in because the financials prove it is.

Again some very good points, I expect the owners to make the most of any commercial avenues and rightly so have excelled in this department.

They do invest in the squad but do not spend the money wisely and have managers have alluded to, not just one, do not back them where they have requested.

Commercially great, on the pitch below par.

 

[Grays_1890]

Again some very good points, I expect the owners to make the most of any commercial avenues and rightly so have excelled in this department.

They do invest in the squad but do not spend the money wisely and have managers have alluded to, not just one, do not back them where they have requested.

Commercially great, on the pitch below par.

Agree

 

[DubSpur]

Just seems like ENIC have got their job done by increasing the value of the club and I'll happily say thanks for building the club to compete ... however I feel in my opinion they have hit their glass ceiling and we are in a rut at the moment.

I cant see them changing their strategy for matters on the pitch and have got found out. Playing money ball and hoping for the best is good when you are trying to catch the elite teams but they do need a change in their approach for them to truely want to be an elite club that genuinely want to be the best.

To dare is to do? Gosh it's embarrassing to have that motto ... it should read "To win would be nice"

Over the last year they've been putting into place a better structure on the football side. It's the one area that I feel they could've done better and not listened to managers that didn't want a DoF. So they are changing their approach there.

Before the stadium was opened it was more or less buy to sell, now they have opened the purse strings and are amongst the biggest spenders.
They've sent out players on loan that are not wanted and still bought. So another change in approach.

What other changes in approach do you want?

 

[Gazza]

Over the last year they've been putting into place a better structure on the football side. It's the one area that I feel they could've done better and not listened to managers that didn't want a DoF. So they are changing their approach there.

Before the stadium was opened it was more or less buy to sell, now they have opened the purse strings and are amongst the biggest spenders.
They've sent out players on loan that are not wanted and still bought. So another change in approach.

What other changes in approach do you want?

Being more decisive in the market and going for players that the manager wants. That would be a start.

Getting a manager who will want to either work within the constraints of ENIC, or get a manager and listen to then for what it will take to win

 

[DubSpur]

Being more decisive in the market and going for players that the manager wants. That would be a start.

They went for players that Conte wanted, Perisic, Porro and Richarlison were obvious Conte signings. No manager is going to get every single player he wants.

 

[Gazza]

They went for players that Conte wanted, Perisic, Porro and Richarlison were obvious Conte signings. No manager is going to get every single player he wants.

Agree, but Conte was right that the whole squad needs a refresh. Next season there has to be quick transfer activity sales and purchases. Get a settled team/squad that the manager wants and not just lip service.

I dont think we are capable of that

 

[Finney Is Back]

Then why have they not done that at another club? And lets compare apples with apples and not talk sugar daddies? If there were other owners that could and would have had the foresight and energy to turn a dying commercial swan into a financial powerhouse at say, Leeds, Villa, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, West Ham etc then why did they not do it?

There are owners doing exactly that at all of those clubs at present. Leeds, Villa, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and West Ham all have recent new ownership/investment and all have improved as a result.

 

[DubSpur]

Agree, but Conte was right that the whole squad needs a refresh. Next season there has to be quick transfer activity sales and purchases. Get a settled team/squad that the manager wants and not just lip service.

I dont think we are capable of that

Most of the squad has been refreshed, goalkeeper and CB are they only two positions that haven't been refreshed enough in the last 2-3 years.
It will be difficult for quick sales with the financial state of European clubs. Whoever the next DoF is will have his work cut out there.

 

[Grays_1890]

There are owners doing exactly that at all of those clubs at present. Leeds, Villa, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and West Ham all have recent new ownership/investment and all have improved as a result.

Not anywhere near to the same level or overhaul that we have undertaken over the period of time and energy its taken, apples and oranges

 

[Finney Is Back]

Not anywhere near to the same level or overhaul that we have undertaken over the period of time and energy its taken, apples and oranges

None of those owners haven't had as long as ENIC yet. Most of them also took over with their club at a far lower ebb than we were when ENIC took us over.

 

[Grays_1890]

None of those owners haven't had as long as ENIC yet. Most of them also took over with their club at a far lower ebb than we were when ENIC took us over.

The fact that 20 years ago many of those clubs were not at a lower ebb and better off than us and spiralled kinda proves my points that if it was that easy why were people not doing it then?

And I bet you the keys to my house that none will be there in 20 years let alone make the same commercial or community impact that Spurs have and will go on further to make.

 

[Gazza]

And I bet you the keys to my house that none will be there in 20 years let alone make the same commercial or community impact that Spurs have and will go on further to make.

Just don't change the locks