• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Emmanuel Adebayor - Officially gone \o/

DTA said:
I think you are smart enough to know you are being obtuse there, either that or naive (why I find hard to believe you are). Perhaps look in to so called 'scientific racism' (that was an actual thing guys) and see how it was used to justify colonalism
Click to expand...

Which cultural and religious beliefs were used to justify expansionism within shamanistic cultures? Can I now imply a connection between those beliefs and yours?

DTA said:
There was never that inference at all, just scara trying to derail/ deflect from the fact that I called him and braineclipse out on their elitest attitudes to other cultures/religions.

Not that I should have to say this, but since scara is deliberately misrepresenting what I said, and that has put doubts in your mind
For what its worth my own people came from a shamistic back ground in central Asia and the modern interpretation of our now monolithic religion still contains elements of this. This is also the case for the majority of people decended from the uk, as the celts were also shamistic, and in terms of the Celts the historians believe their systems to look after the old, disabled etc have only been matched by the ' modern world' in the last 100 years or so, that's a lot of going backward to go forward
Click to expand...

Elitist is a word with a lot of connotations that I'm not entirely comfortable branding towards others. Doing so, if you don't mind, seems a bit elitist. ;)

But I do believe that my opinions on some things are superior to the opinions of others, define that as elitist if you will, no sweat off my back. If I didn't think my opinions were the better one's I would change my ****ing mind. It seems, much like me, you think your way of looking at these things is better than mine. It would surprise me a lot if you would bother discussing these issues with such conviction if you thought our viewpoints were equally valid.

I want to point one thing out. My 'elitist attitudes' on issues like these are not only aimed outwards towards other cultures and religions as you seem to be implying based on my opinion on one isolated issue.

I have plenty of problems with western culture. I have even more problems with western religions. I have freely spoken my mind on this relatively frequently on this board, primarily over in random. As recently as in this thread I ridiculed homeopathy, a system of alternative medicine originating in the west and still most widespread in the west. Related to that, almost by necessity, there are things in other cultures I not only respect, but wish would become more widespread within "western culture".
 
DTA said:
Doesn't really mater what his background is to be honest, you can be from any background and still poutray elitism.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I have had some excellent discussions with him and scara around theism. I think their disregard and lack of respect for these cultures is down to their personal rational convictions. And I respect that.
 
DTA said:
Your post would be 100% correct (maybe) if you were an expert in JuJu, are you?

If not my point stands and the fact that you can't even see that just reinforces it....
Click to expand...

You have made several points, I do not see how my post reinforces any of them.

I'm not an expert in JuJu, but it all seems like woowoo to me. An area where I wouldn't call myself expert (there are very few), but I do know a thing or two. I do not limit my opinions to only areas where I call myself an expert, neither do you it would seem.

To me JuJu believers, like with most superstitious thinking has the burden of evidence firmly planted on their side of the argument. I cannot disprove their every claim, I cannot research every direction of magical thinking. That does not mean that I have to be quiet about the issue.
 
braineclipse said:
Which cultural and religious beliefs were used to justify expansionism within shamanistic cultures? Can I now imply a connection between those beliefs and yours?



Elitist is a word with a lot of connotations that I'm not entirely comfortable branding towards others. Doing so, if you don't mind, seems a bit elitist. ;)

But I do believe that my opinions on some things are superior to the opinions of others, define that as elitist if you will, no sweat off my back. If I didn't think my opinions were the better one's I would change my ****ing mind. It seems, much like me, you think your way of looking at these things is better than mine. It would surprise me a lot if you would bother discussing these issues with such conviction if you thought our viewpoints were equally valid.

I want to point one thing out. My 'elitist attitudes' on issues like these are not only aimed outwards towards other cultures and religions as you seem to be implying based on my opinion on one isolated issue.

I have plenty of problems with western culture. I have even more problems with western religions. I have freely spoken my mind on this relatively frequently on this board, primarily over in random. As recently as in this thread I ridiculed homeopathy, a system of alternative medicine originating in the west and still most widespread in the west. Related to that, almost by necessity, there are things in other cultures I not only respect, but wish would become more widespread within "western culture".
Click to expand...

Will reply to this a bit later, but in terms of my use of the word elitism... I think its fair, but at same time I have no intention of causing offense, and I hope I haven't.
 
The real point is juju is no more or less bs than other beliefs really.
No one here would be laughing at a footballer fasting for Ramadan.

I mean a lot of us think it's all bs but we don't go out of our way to offend and take the ****.
 
Modric THFC said:
The real point is juju is no more or less bs than other beliefs really.
No one here would be laughing at a footballer fasting for Ramadan.

I mean a lot of us think it's all bs but we don't go out of our way to offend and take the ****.
Click to expand...

I would.

I also laugh at footballers who pray when they score, those who touch the pitch when they run on and those who insist on putting one boot on before the other.

They're all as ridiculous as each other, but only of of them (juju) has recently been blamed by one of our players for poor performance.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Fair enough. I have had some excellent discussions with him and scara around theism. I think their disregard and lack of respect for these cultures is down to their personal rational convictions. And I respect that.
Click to expand...

Not sure disregard is accurate.

Lack or respect probably is, but with the qualifier that it's not of cultures as a whole, but with specific aspects of cultures. And that extends to my own "western culture". A belief in the supernatural is in no way the worst aspect of most cultures, but it's my belief that it's connected to and causes other issues too.

I leave it to others to respect all aspects of entire cultures. There are things that humans do that doesn't deserve respect in my opinion.

This too comes with a caveat though. I'm accepting the use of "respect" as defined by you as far as I do not have it. Respect seemingly entails not criticizing or ridiculing, but rather accepting and ignoring what others choose to do. Or at least going to extreme lengths to ensure that no offense is taken by anyone. Personally I don't think this definition/description of respect is the best one. I prefer one that includes taking other people's opinions seriously, and a part of that for me is actually being willing to challenge those opinions if one disagrees.

DTA said:
Will reply to this a bit later, but in terms of my use of the word elitism... I think its fair, but at same time I have no intention of causing offense, and I hope I haven't.
Click to expand...

You should be less concerned with causing offense and more concerned about being accurate. The word elitism didn't offend me at all. Some of your other statements seemed much more offensive to me, but that's not really all that relevant. I would rather discuss the opinions at hand than any offense caused or taken. I was simply clearing my throat about elitism instead of simply accepting your description of me as elitist. Because by some descriptions of what it means to be elitist I do not disagree, but by others I do. So I preferred a slightly different description, but similar to what I thought you intended.
 
Modric THFC said:
The real point is juju is no more or less bs than some other beliefs really.
No one here would be laughing at a footballer fasting for Ramadan.

I mean a lot of us think it's all bs but we don't go out of our way to offend and take the ****.
Click to expand...

Fixed that for you. There surely are beliefs less bs than the belief in juju.

I think there's a difference between following a religious practice despite it having a negative influence on your sporting performance and blaming a lack of performance on a magical action taken by someone else. I really don't think your comparison holds up.

If someone didn't fast during Ramadan and then hit a really bad patch of form and said Allah was punishing him for not fasting I would certainly roll my eyes. And I think jokes would occur.

Jurgen the German said:
So bored of this topic and of Ade in general. Surely this is his last season as a Spurs player?
Click to expand...

Agreed. Why it's better taken way off topic ;)
 
braineclipse said:
Yeah, I prefer things with a basis in reality.



I'm sorry, but what does this have to do with spellcasting/juju/whatevers?

When did I ridicule "religions and cultures" as a whole? I was talking about one specific belief! As a basis for humor no less. I think there are positive and negative aspects to many cultures, the same for religions (although perhaps more negative comparatively). Pointing out one negative aspect of one culture is not the same as ridiculing all of that culture, related cultures and all of their views. Your argument is a complete straw man.



Why?

For humor? For entertainment? For education? For progress?

Go ahead, say cultural relativism...

You're just wrong on this being an inherently academic western discourse.
Click to expand...

Hey brain listen ..you and scara are more than entitled and to be fair its not your fault and its not as if you dont have evidence to support your position.

Its just the mockery of someone else because of what they believe in that i find unsavoury.

In the grand scheme of things..People killing children vs BE poking a bit of fun at things he is strongly against.... water off a ducks back
 
braineclipse said:
Fixed that for you. There surely are beliefs less bs than the belief in juju.

I think there's a difference between following a religious practice despite it having a negative influence on your sporting performance and blaming a lack of performance on a magical action taken by someone else. I really don't think your comparison holds up.

If someone didn't fast during Ramadan and then hit a really bad patch of form and said Allah was punishing him for not fasting I would certainly roll my eyes. And I think jokes would occur.

Agreed. Why it's better taken way off topic ;)
Click to expand...

ALL religious/faith/spiritual beliefs are equal BS in the eyes of any rational/scientific view. But that would be the point of faith, people with these beliefs .. not surprisingly believe, hence for all intents and purposes its real for them.

Back to Ade, it will be interesting if/how we use him, functionally I could see Ade returning and scoring 3-4 goals in a quick succession, if Poch can use that without getting sucked into believing he will sustain that, he should.

However I suspect if we can find cover, we will do everything to shift him in January.
 
africanspurs said:
Hey brain listen ..you and scara are more than entitled and to be fair its not your fault and its not as if you dont have evidence to support your position.

Its just the mockery of someone else because of what they believe in that i find unsavoury.

In the grand scheme of things..People killing children vs BE poking a bit of fun at things he is strongly against.... water off a ducks back
Click to expand...

Well I'm delighted you don't find me quite as unsvoury as infanticide :lol:

Do you find it equally unsavoury if the beliefs in question are political? How about academic views? Or views on healthcare? How about views on sexuality?

It's my belief that religious and some cultural beliefs have been protected for far too long. A lot of self censorship, and actual censorship, have protected these beliefs and it's not been healthy. When insulted the "offense" cry echoes as people expect those particular beliefs to still be protected. I don't agree. If those beliefs are so private and so personal that criticism of them is unacceptably offensive then keep them private and personal.
 
scaramanga said:
It's an inherently acedemic discourse, I'm not sure I'd describe it as Western. There's a very good reason for ridiculing all silly beliefs - it makes the next generation so much less likely to believe in it. By doing so you've helped marginalise what was common belief and helped improve the lives of a generation.
Click to expand...

This comes down to: are you an expert on the subject? If not who are you to say the belief is silly. I have a very limited understanding of what juju is, why would I mock it.
 
DTA said:
This comes down to: are you an expert on the subject? If not who are you to say the belief is silly. I have a very limited understanding of what juju is, why would I mock it.
Click to expand...

I think this conversation should be pulled out of this thread ..

Re understanding juju, I do and you don't need a good grasp of the concept to get its bs This is the singular best argument against these religion/belief/etc -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

synopsis: it's obvious its bull****, but its no less/more believable than anyone else's made up ****.
 
I thought this was a football forum, but I think I've taken a wrong turn somewhere and ended up at the Astrologers' and witchcraft Community.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back