If I attend games, I won't boo him or scream abuse at him, but I'm sorry, on here I won't sugar coat it. He was appalling tonight!
He was not appalling. His general play was actually good, he played well... His only errors were missing 2 very easy chances but we scored from 1 of those anyway. The header that didn't go in was saved too, it wasn't like he blasted it over the bar... Sure, he should have put that far more to the side of the goalkeeper, but he's low on confidence and just tried to get it on target rather than missing...
I can totally see the point that as a result of his header we lost out on a chance that should have resulted in a goal, but to say he was appalling is ignoring 92 minutes and focusing on 5 choice seconds.
His finishing has to get better, we can't have a striker of all positions that isn't going to score the easiest of chances but it wasn't a case of every ball bouncing off him when he tried to control it, it wasn't a case of him contributing nothing.
Also I he is occupying them he frees up space somehow (logically)
Not only that but he drags players out of position. Koscielny has a nightmare whenever we've played Ade against him.
His first touch is too poor, he can be pushed off a challenge by a little girl, his reaction time seems slow, and he lacks the overview to make that vital pass too. He is like a (slightly) more mobile Crouch, minus the heading ability.
Not always. His first touch was fine last night. He cannot be pushed off the ball like a little girl.
His reactions when? To a ball bouncing around in the box or to a pass being made?
Overview? He has great awareness of player positions, which run to make, where space is and where it needs to be... His passing is fine, better than most number 9s by some distance.
A slightly more mobile Crouch that's more mobile than Defoe...
Minus the heading ability... Offensively Crouch's heading ability isn't great, his heading for knockdowns is exceptional though... Ade is better at heading offensively than Crouch although doesn't beat Crouch for headed knockdowns, but few in the world do.
The comparison is beyond awful though, Ade is better than Crouch at almost everything. The only thing they have in common is they're both very tall. Almost any other target man will give you a better comparison.
The funny thing about that Crouch comparison is that teams are terrified of Crouch's potential to cause havoc, they will always play a higher line than they normally would because they fear the 7 foot giant that can knock the ball down almost wherever he wants. If a team parks the bus and defends in their own box, Crouch's potential is frightening. If Ade could win as many aerial duels as Crouch does and knock the ball down as well as Crouch does, he would be the ideal striker for our team's style.
We don't have the luxury of having a striker that doesn't score tho Gutterboy. Apart from Bale, our midfield don't get enough goals, Bale has been carrying us goal wise since the turn of the year. I agree we need a striker who can link up play amongst other things, but we need a striker who can get goals more than anything.
You say that, Dempsey hasn't been doing bad lately until his injury, Siggy just opened his account but has been hitting the post almost every appearance, Bale is as you say scoring the vast majority of our goals... Whoever we play as DM isn't going to get many goals, but Dembele can score goals, his shots do better than Modric's did... We're not in a horrible position as far as goalscoring midfields go.... Lennon is always going to be a creator that grabs a couple of goals, but the midfield at least has the potential to get goals... I remember having this conversation before when we really didn't have a midfield that'd score goals.
Ade does score goals though, every season he scores goals. This is a horrible run of form as far as scoring goes, but he will score a couple more before the season ends... A couple isn't enough, but he will get some, at least. We've no option but to hope he starts scoring goals again... The good news is that he always scores against Arsenal, the bad news is he usually gets banned for something else he does in that game.
Arsenal didn't exactly try too hard to keep him.
City paid about 25 mil for him back then.... Arsenal sold Henry for 16 mil a couple of seasons before that. 25 million for a striker was a ton of money when City bought him.
I don't think that's entirely fair to people's perception, as any forward (or player in general) which the opposition bothers to mark and "runs around a bit" will free up space by default. I appreciate the silver lining kind of thinking, but that's a little bit too far fetched IMHO.
LOL. Ok, You're Bale at the edge of the opposition D, I'm BAE on the left.... I'm going to "run around a bit" and run forward in a wide arc that takes me past the opposition right midfielder and the right back, I turn in your direction. At this moment you receive the ball and dribble past the opposition DM. I continue my run but bend it to run behind you.
The right midfielder tracked me as I was his man, the right back stepped towards the rcb as the left flank had no Spurs player anywhere near it, you are the closest person to it and you're on the D with the ball.
Congratulations, my running around a bit has brought extra opposition players to you.
Contrast this to Giroud who took 2 CBs out of the reckoning for the winner Arsenal scored against Villa. Contrast it to Podolski taking the Villa RB out of position for that goal. Villa lost that game due to "running around a bit".
Intelligent movement and self sacrifice being summed up as "running around a bit" is like describing a 40 yard volley as "swinging a leg at the ball"... At least Harry wasn't talking to someone with a good grasp of English when he said it and at least Pav was a striker and didn't need to read a manual on how to play the game, however Harry got ridiculed for that comment so it seems a strange thing to use to describe something that is a skill.
Certain players can't make intelligent runs to save their lives, Ade is actually awesome at it. Now, I'm not saying most strikers will fudge things up as badly as I did in my example, but to dismiss something Ade offers the team as "something any player" does is doing him a disservice, especially as you implied everyone does it to the same standard.
I agree he was not appalling. However the sitter he missed is just going to dent his confidence even further.
He chased the ball, ran people down and then redoubled his efforts when he missed it, he was clearly annoyed with himself.
I don't see where the spark is going to come for him. If anything the emergence of Bale makes it even less likely as Bale, not Adebayor, seems to be the focal point of our attack.
Arsenal at home. Scoring in that and winning the game could do for Ade what it did for the entire Arsenal team in the last 2 derbies.
It's interesting because I absolutely agree on the one hand, but on the other I feel he's going to suddenly burst out and put them away for fun. It could well be blind optimism re: scoring (not wanting to have to take a photo wearing an egg for Bush Hill)
You're fine. He only needs one goal, as long as he plays most of the rest of our games, he will get that goal.
That miss was simply unforgivable.
Nah, he got it on target and we won the game, he worked hard and performed well other than that one moment. It's quite forgivable. It was an awful moment for him, sure, but it didn't actually cost us anything. (In the end, everything might have worked out for the best.)
It'll be a lot harder to forgive when he skies a miss from 6 yards and it costs us points... But Pav seemed to do that once every couple of games and I remember him quite fondly now, so I suppose all misses are forgivable eventually... Until one costs us a CL place. I still haven't forgiven Bayern or Barca. The goalkeeper that shall not be named will never ever ever be forgiven, gifting Arsenal that many goals on the last day of the season is unforgivable... But Ade's one header that was saved is nothing compared to those things.
He couldn't hold the ball up, the ball seems to bounce off him at the moment.
He did ok at holding the ball up, it's really not that bad.
He celebrated the first two.
Not the last one though.
And yet he was the most responsible and reliable person at making sure we didn't lose the game afterwards. He played to win rather than risk losing the ball and having West Ham score and snatch the points from us.
If everyone wants to see him smile and do silly dances, wait until the Arsenal game, if he scores half of you will be worried he might celebrate too much.
but that miss can only have decimated whatever small amount of confidence he has left. He'll be over-thinking every chance now, going hiding from goal scoring opportunities. We really need one to bounce off his ass or something.
Over-thinking possibly, I think he over-thought the first header. His second header was actually good though and he didn't look like he was hiding.
I agree about one bouncing off his ass though, I've been saying that for a while.
it seemed like everytime the ball was cleared Ade would be in a different part of the pitch where he wasn't doing anything at all. These were times when it seemed obvious to me where the ball would be cleared to and by putting himself in that area he'd be able to make a genuine challenge for the ball. It's frustrating.
The only time something like that happened and it annoyed me, it was actually Bale 5 feet from challenging with a defender after a clearance was up in the air for about half a dozen seconds, I wondered if he'd lost it in the air or if he just hadn't noticed where the ball went... But it was Bale, so I can't question his work ethic, the thing is, Ade wasn't anywhere near it. Generally if Ade is close, he challenges... I didn't look out for Ade not moving to obvious areas where the ball would be cleared to though, I'll try to keep an eye on that in future games. (Maybe not the next one because concentrating in NLDs is not something I'm going to do on even the 2nd viewing.)
If we want a striker who plays well but never scores we might as well sign Heskey.
Heskey was top scorer in the Australian league earlier this season, how is he doing at the moment? I haven't checked up on him lately.
The thing about Heskey though, is he doesn't play well but never scores, he always plays badly and never scores. I kept myself entertained through the latter part of his second coming by counting the times he contributed something on the ball and I can't remember him being in credit after any games. Usually he gave the ball away more than he did anything else with it.
If we had Crouch, Xavi, Messi, Lahm, King and Sandro combined into a super striker that couldn't score goals but could do everything else, then I'd totally take that. Bale would have hat tricks handed to him on a plate with that sort of striker.
Honestly, football forums do make me laugh sometimes. I have yet to meet a Spurs fan in real life either at the games or just in general that actually believes he is playing well at the moment and doesn't need to get his act together. I know people like a debate but I don't see how people can make a case that he's playing well.
If he scored 0.5 goals per game, but nothing else changed, would he be playing well?
I think Ade was a lot better than recently but still far from enough to earn his wages.
This is fair.
But doing enough to earn his wages will always be hard. How many footballers do earn their wages? If Walcott earns his 100k, Ade isn't far away from doing enough to earn his 100k... I don't remember Walcott doing much more than Ade lately...
At least one poster has said that for the last 4 games, someone has to be right eventually I guess
See? Everyone can be confident Ade will score eventually... The world isn't ending any time soon.
I will agree he isn't getting lots of chances, but even when he does get one, he never looks like scoring which is worrying. He isn't creating chances or even half chances for himself like Defoe can do on occasion.
His second header was a good attempt. That header and Caulker's three headers, they all looked like scoring.
No, he doesn't create chances or half chances for himself like Defoe does, but Ade creates chances for others. He does that from time to time. You aren't going to see him do what he did against Saudi Sportswashing Machine last year at this rate because we're not packing the box and giving him the opportunity to slide in lots of little passes for assists, but even with the way we are playing he can create a decent amount.
He never bloody missed when he played for Arsenal in North London derbies.
Not just that, even Real Madrid against us.
If every Arsenal player had their NLD performances shown to scouts around the world but those scouts couldn't see non NLD performances, Arsenal would have been able to sell 50 of their players over the last 10 years for 50 mil each.
But Ade plays well against Arsenal too when it comes to scoring goals, so we should benefit this time.
Because we're winning in spite of him and could replace him with a striker who offers a goal threat.
You say you meant Defoe with this?
Firstly, I disagree we are winning in spite of him. That's taking things a bit far. We're not better with him off the pitch than we are with him on it.
Secondly, Defoe's form has been abysmal when it comes to scoring goals and because Defoe is Defoe, he responds to not scoring goals by shooting more until he scores.
That said, he has just had an injury so that might have reset him. That sort of thing usually resets his form.
Kind of clutching at straws isn't it? He was poor in the other game against Lyon and Saudi Sportswashing Machine.
He was not poor against Saudi Sportswashing Machine... He came on and we looked much much better. I'm sure even you have said that.
What we see is a seemingly more elaborate passing game, but our average possession stats are down from 56.7 % to 52.5 %.
No. Last season we were a possession side with a huge focus on passing the ball, keeping possession, recycling the ball and looking for the killer pass. When we played well, we hit several cross field passes each match, made opposition defences shuffle from side to side constantly and had King, Modric and VDV. King used to pass to wingers more than Parker did, he had this awesome pass from a typical CB position curling right into the path of the left winger and one fired to the right winger's feet. Modric speaks for himself and VDV was integral to our game too.
This season we're a totally different team, our style has changed and we don't play the typical possession football that possession football teams play. We don't have the possession of a possession team either, but we don't have Modric or VDV so we don't have the passing ability of a possession team either. We had a better passing midfield than Arsenal, even though Parker was part of our midfield.
Also, BAE has missed a lot of this season and he was important for us being a possession side.
The thing about the possession stat though is last season, being a possession side, possession did help show when we were playing well and when we weren't played as well... This season we have such a counter attacking focus that we'd probably benefit from the loss of possession.
Do you think he's done enough to keep his place when Defoe comes back? Take whether you don't rate Defoe or not out of the equation. On performances, has he deserved it?
You can't just ignore your feelings for Defoe. No one felt Kane or one of the other young strikers we had temporarily before we sent them back out on loan should have been played ahead of Ade.
If it's about who deserves to start, I don't think Ade or Defoe would get into the team ahead of Holtby, Dempsey and Bale, but none of those are number 9s.
As I have been saying all along Ade has been sh1t all season. He is playing like a player who is feeling "underpaid". You all know the sort at work. Those who just work 9-5 and are out the door on the stroke of five. While at work they just go through the motions. No desire to put in anything extra and no commitment whatsoever. Even on £80 or £100k per week, in my view Ade sees himself as "underpaid"!. He therefore is just going throught the motions until he can get another bonanza payday - or stiff us for another so called "loyalty bonus" like he did to City.
He has shorchanged us all season.
He has not.
Are we really just going to slap labels on players and guess what they're feeling?
No, I'm one of those guys that work exactly my hours and nothing more, those that put in nothing extra. That's not someone feeling underpaid, that's someone who wouldn't work if they were underpaid because they're not there for the love. They probably dislike their work and can't wait to leave every single day and someone like that knows exactly how much they need to get paid to work feeling that way. None of this sounds like Ade.
No, if he was angling for a move, he would be extra motivated. You get a move by attracting clubs, you don't attract clubs by playing badly. You can flip this round by saying that last season he wanted to impress us to get his move, this season he doesn't want to impress us... The problem is that's flimflam because it comes down to not scoring goals at the moment and no striker is going to not score by choice.
He has not shortchanged us all season.
For the record, you can't just make brick up to explain things the way you want to explain them. I can't say you're a devil worshipper that has read the stars and feels like he has all the secrets of the universe, because it's flimflam. There's no way for me to know that stuff, you can't just make that sort of stuff up about people you don't know. Behave yourself.
I think someone needs to get in his ear and point out that we could overtake City. He seems to want to prove himself against his former teams.
Playing well would go part of the way to proving himself. The way he made sure we kept the ball near the corner flag did show his desire to win. Anything is worth a shot at this point though, I'm just not sure how much of an effect it would have... I like the idea though.
So you're saying Ade should keep his place regardless of how badly he plays and regardless if he scores 0 goals because you rate him higher than Defoe. Now that is stupid. As much as I don't rate Ade, if he goes on to score in the next two games, he should keep his place.
As long as there's no one that can play better than him, yes. If he deliberately scores three own goals, he would be playing worse than any random fan in the stadium... Hell, Arsenal fans could barely match that, although they could mess up our offside trap. But the other options we have must always come into play. Dempsey is a real option for that position even though it isn't his proper position, but Kaboul wouldn't be. The thing with Defoe is you never know when his form is going to return. The Arsenal game is a dangerous one to risk him on, but against lesser teams, we can usually give him a bit of time and then change things if he doesn't work out. If Defoe isn't in goalscoring form, Dempsey has to be ahead of a non goalscoring Defoe because Dempsey offers more, even if he doesn't quite know everything he is expected to do as a number 9.
Now Defoe might not have great hold up skills, but he's offered us far more in terms of goals and his overall output than Adebayor has.
Goals earlier in the season yes.... Overall output, I disagree.
He has scored double figures yes. However you are crazy if you think his current form is better than Adebayors.
I'd rather have the player who is a handful, and opens up the space for other players, than the player who shoots from impossible angles and wastes possession. Each to his own i guess.
Completely agree with this post.
This is Levy's fault more than anyone else. I can't honestly believe AVB would turn down a chance to sign a striker.
I can. It wasn't an emergency. We tried to get a striker, didn't get one, still had Defoe, Ade and Dempsey... It sucked that Ade had to go to the ACON and it sucked that Defoe got injured... It sucks that Dempsey isn't a striker and AVB seems to not want to leave him up front on his own after last time.
Bad luck, but we had 3 people capable of playing as the 1 in a 4-2-3-1, that is not a crisis, that is not an emergency. Yes, from our point of view it's very easy to say "we should sign a striker this window".... AVB got Holtby and we seem to be getting a lot out of him, he seems versatile and very talented. AVB might have planned for Holtby to play alongside Dempsey and Bale. In his mind, I'm sure he had several possible ideas...
Also, Defoe getting injured was not inevitable, it was a possibility but not by any means a certainty. AVB made sure we had alternatives but look at the crazy scenario he finds himself in.
Defoe - Injured and out of form.
Ade - ACON, came back late and out of form.
Dempsey - Doesn't do as well as a 9 as Ade does.
That is a strange scenario. But Bale has been doing really well, this setup might be working better than the 4-4-2 we looked like we might end up playing earlier this season.... Ade hasn't been scoring but we've still been winning. Even Dempsey got injured but we're still ok at this point and into 3rd.
This is the best crisis I've ever seen. Usually the crisis happens when we forget how to win, but we're mid crisis while we're winning.
Sure, if AVB could go back in time to the previous 2 windows, he might have done different things. But if he could go back in time to the previous 2 windows, would he have seen us in this position?
Plus, AVB has a team that keeps getting last minute goals, he has a player on fire, he has a team in form, he has a team on a great unbeaten run...
There's no telling what might have happened with another striker, he might have flopped for more money, he might get sent off every time he plays, he might have scored Ade's header but we might have ended up conceding a last minute goal trying to defend a last minute lead instead.
When you factor Ade's recent performances into things, there's no need to wish things had gone differently, things have gone really well.
We did the play the best football in the league but end up getting screwed out of the CL last year, this year I just want the results to come, even if we remember this as the season Bale carried us for.
Ade and Defoe between them should somehow be able to negotiate the rest of the season, EL and PL. If they can't, we're in trouble because Ade just signed and we won't be able to sell him, Defoe has thought about leaving whenever he hasn't been first choice... Next season they'll both be useless with no confidence if they do contribute to us fudging this season up.
Trying to go for the ball, that's the least I expect from a striker, fudge that, I expect it from any footballer when ball is 5 yards away. Their defender made a mistake and touched the ball straight to Bale, don't see how you can give credit to Ade for that one.
He didn't get the assist, but it is very harsh for you to not give him any credit at all. If players have to do something exceptional for credit, most assists wouldn't count.
Doing the basic things should be more than enough to get credit for contributing to a goal.
Plus, QPR's last game proves you often cannot count on people to do basic things.
Hell, look at Lloris, he makes saves with his face. Look at Nasri, can't even stand in a wall.
