Do teachers know the meaning of stress?

[Golfball]

Dont know what relevance mollycoddled children is to people who get help from their parents.

Personally I have had no help financially, and it meant fudge all when I graduated or started earning real money. I wasnt particularly happy that I spent my weekends as a 16 year old working in some poxy job saving up for when i did go to uni. Id much rather have had hand outs so that I could live a bit more or put extra effort into studying.

I went to Bath uni where as you can imagine, a lot did have rich parents funding their way. Its not the same as mollycoddling though and doesnt mean they didnt earn it. It just meant that their parents were able to help them cut out the poxy part time job and give them a helping hand in having a better life. Trust me they worked damn hard to get a degree - try explaining to your parents who gave you X amount of money as to why you failed. They have worked damn hard since leaving uni and have some top jobs. Parents funding uni is not the same as a rich parent funding a 50 year old man who never had a job etc. But these people I know with rich parents still do get handouts, help with mortgages etc but they still work hard, who cares if they didnt earn every penny themselves. Its natural for a parent to want to give their kids a better life, why struggle when there is no need, I doubt the guys on the end of the handouts really sit there and think "i didnt earn this, im not proud anymore".

Im in position where I will make sure I give my kids handouts, I wouldnt see them struggle when they do not have to. Infact the better they do, the more they will get. Get a 1st from Oxford ? you can have a 4 bed detached. Get a 3rd from Middlesex ? you get a 1 bed flat up north.

Would also like to point out, that while I dont see parents who can afford to helping out as a bad thing, I also dont see the current university charges as affordable and would like to see it lowered so that kids from poorer backgrounds are able to have a chance to one day become a rich parent funding their kids.

 

[Leeds Spur]

Trust me. That's about to change!!!

?ú9k a year and rising. The country is a trillion in debt.

University numbers will drop like a stone over the next decade.....and for the better

We need more plumbers, electricians, mechanics and other blue collar workers. At the moment we import them and they send their money home!

Our students will start to go abroad. You don't pay fees at Harvard f your parents erm less Han ?ú40K

 

[Leeds Spur]

Dont know what relevance mollycoddled children is to people who get help from their parents.

Personally I have had no help financially, and it meant fudge all when I graduated or started earning real money. I wasnt particularly happy that I spent my weekends as a 16 year old working in some poxy job saving up for when i did go to uni. Id much rather have had hand outs so that I could live a bit more or put extra effort into studying.

I went to Bath uni where as you can imagine, a lot did have rich parents funding their way. Its not the same as mollycoddling though and doesnt mean they didnt earn it. It just meant that their parents were able to help them cut out the poxy part time job and give them a helping hand in having a better life. Trust me they worked damn hard to get a degree - try explaining to your parents who gave you X amount of money as to why you failed. They have worked damn hard since leaving uni and have some top jobs. Parents funding uni is not the same as a rich parent funding a 50 year old man who never had a job etc. But these people I know with rich parents still do get handouts, help with mortgages etc but they still work hard, who cares if they didnt earn every penny themselves. Its natural for a parent to want to give their kids a better life, why struggle when there is no need, I doubt the guys on the end of the handouts really sit there and think "i didnt earn this, im not proud anymore".

Im in position where I will make sure I give my kids handouts, I wouldnt see them struggle when they do not have to. Infact the better they do, the more they will get. Get a 1st from Oxford ? you can have a 4 bed detached. Get a 3rd from Middlesex ? you get a 1 bed flat up north.

Would also like to point out, that while I dont see parents who can afford to helping out as a bad thing, I also dont see the current university charges as affordable and would like to see it lowered so that kids from poorer backgrounds are able to have a chance to one day become a rich parent funding their kids.

You don't know the new system do you?

It's actually cheaper for those with parents on low incomes. It's a better system.

I'd subsidise courses where the country actually has a recognised skills gap. Wanna study football? Fine!! You pay top whack. Medicine? Free.

 

[Golfball]

You don't know the new system do you?

It's actually cheaper for those with parents on low incomes. It's a better system.

I'd subsidise courses where the country actually has a recognised skills gap. Wanna study football? Fine!! You pay top whack. Medicine? Free.

To be honest I dont fully know the new system. Cheaper... but is it affordable ? is it an off putting amount of money?

I doubt the system is better than when I went. Fees werent that much anyway and if your parents didnt earn over a certain amount, it was free. I know when my sister went in 2007 she paid a lot more than I did. And if she was going now she'd pay a lot more again.

 

[Leeds Spur]

Now you actually pay a rate comesurate with the cost. Although the government still subsidise higher education.

Now you don't pay anything until you earn a higher amount and you ay a smaller amount. If you never earn sufficient money since you're in a lower paid job, the loan gets written off.

The average graduate earns ?ú600,000 more over their careers. Paying ?ú27k towards that is fudge all, if yore really serious about a career and not just getting tinkled. Bottom line, we don't need and cannot sustain 50% of opl going to university. That was Blair's target

 

[Leeds Spur]

Someone earning up to ?ú25k under thr new system pays less basically.

Classic though, commenting when you don't know the facts.

 

[Golfball]

Someone earning up to ?ú25k under thr new system pays less basically.

Classic though, commenting when you don't know the facts.

Something you do all the time. And even in this case you haven't given me the facts. My comment still stands regarding affordability. Paying less, sustaining high uni figures etc are just not relevant to my comment.

If I see the exact details I might change my mind. But I'm guessing the cheaper fees are still expensive which is why no real figures were put forward to me.

 

[Leeds Spur]

Go and prove me wrong then.

Otherwise move along

 

[Leeds Spur]

Read it and weep biatch! (ironic)

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes

 

[COYS]

Read it and weep biatch! (ironic)

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes

This is the reference I use over and over again.

University is 100% affordable, no matter what your background is.

 

[yiddo2786]

This is the reference I use over and over again.

University is 100% affordable, no matter what your background is.

From what I can gather from an 'outsider' of the new system, it seems pretty excellent.

 

[COYS]

From what I can gather from an 'outsider' of the new system, it seems pretty excellent.

It's excellent unless you read The Guardian

 

[Leeds Spur]

I look forward to golf all posting his critique.

You see. Once people actually get informed they realise, like with all policy areas, this government is recognising problems and acting. They are looking to protect the poorer students.

 

[Golfball]

Go and prove me wrong then.

Otherwise move along

What do you mean, move along ? I made the initial post, didnt challenge your points, you challenged mine. Infact you picked up on a minor comment, something that I didnt expect anyone to respond to as it is just my view on fees. Its not a subject i really wish to discuss if im honest.

But if you were expecting me to change my view based on what you have provided, well, it really didnt do a single thing. My opinion was based on what I thought to be the fees and system, and your link confirms I was on the right lines with my thinking.... and I still think the fees are an off putting amount to some people. Point 8 on your link, you WILL owe money for longer and MAY pay a LOT more.

Now, firstly I will say this isnt a comment regarding whether we could sustain previous university entry figures, but a poorer student 5 years ago would pay nothing for university. They could live at home, pay nothing for fees. Cant tell me the new system is better than that.

Now onto this new system... yes I fully understand you dont have to pay much up front and can get loans. But you have to pay that back. I would hate to have left uni knowing that I now have a massive debt that I will pay back slowly and due to the slowness, pay lots of interest. The system now takes a bit more each month, but the debt would be much less to start with and you will pay much less interest. The people who get grants will still have massive debt.

As I said, it is an off putting amount of debt to be in even if they have made it manageable to pay back. I would hate to have that much debt before I have even started my working life. Nothing is going to change my opinion, I know most of the facts. I think these uni fees are too high. Simple as that. People going to uni now may not pay much up front, but they could end up paying so much more than when I went. I can guarantee you would not have thought it was fair if you were going now, its easy to have your opinion now that you earn a decent wage.

Now, you can reply if you want but to be honest I dont really care about the subject and it wont change my mind no matter what spin you put on it. I dont think the system is great considering the fees. You make it sound like years of slowly paying back debt is a good thing compared with previous systems....errrrr.... I'd much rather be a poor student 6 years ago than I would now.

Come back to edit this.... I just saw the table near the bottom of the link... someone earning 40k to start with (and then earning 165k in 30 years time) would end up paying 133k before the loan is written off !! haha yeah this new system is better alright... do the tories really think people are fudging stupid and think because the repayments are lower each month that they wont realise over 30 years they will pay so much for their education. And of course it doesnt favour the rich who could just pay up front and not have to worry about the additional 90k ! no wonder the students were protesting so much, as if the housing situation isnt bad enough for them they will now have to pay 133k for something I practically did for free.

 

[Golfball]

It's excellent unless you read The Guardian

The fees are terrible compared to previous systems.

It is terrible if you do not have rich parents who can pay up front. The poorer students will pay, through loans and interest a lot more for their education.

Some people cannot take any criticism of a tory policy and will put any stupid slant on it.

 

[Leeds Spur]

Poorer students will pay less. People who earn low wages will pay less. You've demonstrated yet again that your tiny brain cannot digest complex matters, I'd recommend refraining from public displays of self flagellation.

 

[Leeds Spur]

And you can pay early, it's just like a mortgage. Why would you take 30 years to pay a £40k if you earn £100k?

I had £22k of student loans when I graduated, all paid within 6 years.

As I said before, the average grad earns £600k more over their career. Why wouldn't you invest (good labour word that!) in your future? The university system is still subsidised. Hopefully this will make people think what they want to do and if Uni is right for them. For £27k you could do lots of alternatives, ACA, IT quals, etc.

 

[Leeds Spur]

And we'll see the numbers shall we? I reckon there will be a slight fall it administrations, a good thing. And many people are going abroad now as well. Most European nations offer degrees in English. And the US has the best universities in the world.

 

[yiddo2786]

From what I gather, if uni is successful in getting you a well paid job, you pay for it in tiny pieces a month, and if it doesn't get you a job, you don't pay for it. Fantastic.

 

[Dorothy]

What do you mean, move along ? I made the initial post, didnt challenge your points, you challenged mine. Infact you picked up on a minor comment, something that I didnt expect anyone to respond to as it is just my view on fees. Its not a subject i really wish to discuss if im honest.

But if you were expecting me to change my view based on what you have provided, well, it really didnt do a single thing. My opinion was based on what I thought to be the fees and system, and your link confirms I was on the right lines with my thinking.... and I still think the fees are an off putting amount to some people. Point 8 on your link, you WILL owe money for longer and MAY pay a LOT more.

Now, firstly I will say this isnt a comment regarding whether we could sustain previous university entry figures, but a poorer student 5 years ago would pay nothing for university. They could live at home, pay nothing for fees. Cant tell me the new system is better than that.

Now onto this new system... yes I fully understand you dont have to pay much up front and can get loans. But you have to pay that back. I would hate to have left uni knowing that I now have a massive debt that I will pay back slowly and due to the slowness, pay lots of interest. The system now takes a bit more each month, but the debt would be much less to start with and you will pay much less interest. The people who get grants will still have massive debt.

As I said, it is an off putting amount of debt to be in even if they have made it manageable to pay back. I would hate to have that much debt before I have even started my working life. Nothing is going to change my opinion, I know most of the facts. I think these uni fees are too high. Simple as that. People going to uni now may not pay much up front, but they could end up paying so much more than when I went. I can guarantee you would not have thought it was fair if you were going now, its easy to have your opinion now that you earn a decent wage.

Now, you can reply if you want but to be honest I dont really care about the subject and it wont change my mind no matter what spin you put on it. I dont think the system is great considering the fees. You make it sound like years of slowly paying back debt is a good thing compared with previous systems....errrrr.... I'd much rather be a poor student 6 years ago than I would now.

Come back to edit this.... I just saw the table near the bottom of the link... someone earning 40k to start with (and then earning 165k in 30 years time) would end up paying 133k before the loan is written off !! haha yeah this new system is better alright... do the tories really think people are fudging stupid and think because the repayments are lower each month that they wont realise over 30 years they will pay so much for their education. And of course it doesnt favour the rich who could just pay up front and not have to worry about the additional 90k ! no wonder the students were protesting so much, as if the housing situation isnt bad enough for them they will now have to pay 133k for something I practically did for free.

To be fair a large proportion of the students protesting didn't even fully understand why they were. Just like a lot of those protesting. Most are encouraged, cajoled, coerced into it and don't ereally know why they are. Just think of the number of students whose parents pay for them who were out there protesting. I can think of lots of them. Maybe it was a deep sense of brotherhood with their fellow students who want something for nothing (a modern British disease..). Any suprise that New Labia are thrown out after driving the country to the brink of ruin and that somehow the deeply dense public within no time at all have forgotten who was responsible for the hard decisions the coalition are having to take. All we are seeing is the manipulation from the left in our sad popularity politics show. It is like trying to get cake away from a fat bird. People are addicted to working less, doing less and getting something for nothing and when it is rightly taken away from them they all take to the streets. They want the Government to wave a magic wand and give them more, take less, improve everything and they don't want to pay for it. To think at a time when the country desperately needs to plan forward, to motivate, to recruit, to build, to give real (nor virtual hope) we have an opposition party that can only serve as some pantomime dame. I can't remember anything quite as dull and embarrassing as the touring around of the word 'millionaire' earlier this year. What a sad endictment on modern British life when all the opposition can do is divide class and tinkle on success and aspiration. Let us hope that we can better insulate ourselves from the nonsense elsewhere in the world, get a proper handle on the longer term of future of Britain and continue to watch our spending, balance our books and rebuild from a period of sustained 'something for nothing'.