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Djed Spence

harr1984 said:
It's pretty obvious - he didn't include players in pre season that he didn't want, unlike the previous pre season he chose to include Djed so like it or not he was in his plans. Before the injury nightmare he had given Djed some minutes - fine, not as many as some would have liked but he had started involving him. You want to see how someone who wasn't in his plans was treated then see Reggie - he was never integrated at any point until the injury problems we had months into the season.

PS You can't say he got it wrong regardless - if he hadn't of made Spence work for it, you have no idea whether he would be putting in the performances he is now. It's all guesswork from the armchair fan society. The only evidence is the performances he is now putting on the pitch which are damn good, and might be because of how Ange has handled him. Heaven forbid Ange did something right.....
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Included him. Gave him a new contract. Gave Spence enough of a belief in his future here that he chose to sign that contract. Whatever happened wasn't that Ange just didn't rate him.

I think what Ange says makes sense and is the most likely explanation.
 
harr1984 said:
It's pretty obvious - he didn't include players in pre season that he didn't want, unlike the previous pre season he chose to include Djed so like it or not he was in his plans. Before the injury nightmare he had given Djed some minutes - fine, not as many as some would have liked but he had started involving him. You want to see how someone who wasn't in his plans was treated then see Reggie - he was never integrated at any point until the injury problems we had months into the season.

PS You can't say he got it wrong regardless - if he hadn't of made Spence work for it, you have no idea whether he would be putting in the performances he is now. It's all guesswork from the armchair fan society. The only evidence is the performances he is now putting on the pitch which are damn good, and might be because of how Ange has handled him. Heaven forbid Ange did something right.....
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But that was my point. It was a win-win for Ange. It was so easy for Ange to create a narrative that makes him look like he made great choices all along even though he may have not. We'll never know whether Ange feels he could have got there quicker with Djed. He'll never own up to it and why should he? What we do know is that last season Ange had no UEFA football and had 3 senior RB's. I reckon if Emerson wasn't at the club he would have been equally happy to have Spence at the club last season. We did the right thing by Emerson who is a model pro.
 
Bishop said:
The vast majority of that list are not white and some I think you're reaching a bit. Stambouli, really? You remember him being cited as someone with attitude problems? I remember him being criticised for not being very good but I honestly don't recall anyone doubting his attitude. The guy who does stand out as matching your criteria is Bentley and the suitability of attitude wasn't ever in doubt, it was super obvious to see that he was a bit of playboy and said so himself.

I think you're misunderstand or maybe not quite understanding. No one questions Romero or GLC's attitude they just think that they had more affinity for playing for Argentina. This is not the same thing.
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Isn't grouping people as "not white" just a way of changing things to suit your argument?

You said that only black players get labelled as having attitude problems. I've shown you a list of players who (as far as I recollect) had documented issues with their behaviour.

And stambouli was a good player who didn't settle here and it impacted his happiness and his attitude. He went on to play for PSG so he can't have been that bad.
 
Now that that Udogie is coming back in the team, I wonder if we will try a Gareth Bale type transformation with Spence? (Not saying he will be the next Bale) He does have natural skill, confidence and pace, just need to see if he has the Shot technique in advanced positions.
 
totalspurs said:
Now that that Udogie is coming back in the team, I wonder if we will try a Gareth Bale type transformation with Spence? (Not saying he will be the next Bale) He does have natural skill, confidence and pace, just need to see if he has the Shot technique in advanced positions.
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We need a decent right back who can defend, lets not try and change the position of the only one we have.
 
Muttley said:
But that was my point. It was a win-win for Ange. It was so easy for Ange to create a narrative that makes him look like he made great choices all along even though he may have not. We'll never know whether Ange feels he could have got there quicker with Djed. He'll never own up to it and why should he? What we do know is that last season Ange had no UEFA football and had 3 senior RB's. I reckon if Emerson wasn't at the club he would have been equally happy to have Spence at the club last season. We did the right thing by Emerson who is a model pro.
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To be fair to him, in a later interview, he was clear, Spence's place in team now and his output is 99% down to player ...
 
Pandy said:
Actually think despite his deficiencies I'd still pick Porro over Spence at RB. His attacking output is too valuable.

But on his recent form Spence is first choice at LB for me.
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Considering how much work we ask the FBs to do, I think it's pure rotation

Chance to start Spence plus 1 of Porro/Udogie, and sub one out or other way around. It also creates an interesting tactical option, FB facing Porro or Udogie suddenly having to face Spence 60 minutes in (or vice versa) could be useful.

Even a chance if we get CBs back, in games we are elading to bring Gray in at RB to just close off games
 
Raziel said:
Considering how much work we ask the FBs to do, I think it's pure rotation

Chance to start Spence plus 1 of Porro/Udogie, and sub one out or other way around. It also creates an interesting tactical option, FB facing Porro or Udogie suddenly having to face Spence 60 minutes in (or vice versa) could be useful.

Even a chance if we get CBs back, in games we are elading to bring Gray in at RB to just close off games
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Of course, but if we had the EL final tomorrow, I'd start Spence and Porro.
 
totalspurs said:
Now that that Udogie is coming back in the team, I wonder if we will try a Gareth Bale type transformation with Spence? (Not saying he will be the next Bale) He does have natural skill, confidence and pace, just need to see if he has the Shot technique in advanced positions.
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The way I see it ball striking is one of his few "weaknesses". Not saying he's poor at it, but compared to some of his other attributes it's not at the same level.

Unlike Bale he's also really good defensively.
 
Surfless said:
Isn't grouping people as "not white" just a way of changing things to suit your argument?

You said that only black players get labelled as having attitude problems. I've shown you a list of players who (as far as I recollect) had documented issues with their behaviour.

And stambouli was a good player who didn't settle here and it impacted his happiness and his attitude. He went on to play for PSG so he can't have been that bad.
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I don't know if you're purposely being disengerous or simply do not understand. Yes attitude is something that regularly gets aimed at young black players if you're not aware of this then I can only say it's very much there as an undercurrent. The list you gave I didn't really understand the point of, I mentioned black players and then you gave a list other more bon white players who were also accused of having attitude problems. Maybe if I spell it out more directly it's not something that is usually aimed at white players.

On an aside I don't even remember Stambouli ever being accused of having attitude problems. He was a hard worker of low overall quality but attitude I don't recall that at all.
 
Bishop said:
I don't know if you're purposely being disengerous or simply do not understand. Yes attitude is something that regularly gets aimed at young black players if you're not aware of this then I can only say it's very much there as an undercurrent. The list you gave I didn't really understand the point of, I mentioned black players and then you gave a list other more bon white players who were also accused of having attitude problems. Maybe if I spell it out more directly it's not something that is usually aimed at white players.

On an aside I don't even remember Stambouli ever being accused of having attitude problems. He was a hard worker of low overall quality but attitude I don't recall that at all.
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No agenda here, I just don't agree with your suggestion that attitude issues are a uniquely black player label. I posted the list to evidence that of the last however many players with perceived attitude problems, more or less half were not black.

So your point is, from my perspective, wrong.

As for Stambouli, I recall him publicly being critical of the club. I might be wrong, it was a long time ago. I'm sure, though, that I've forgotten some players who had discipline or attitude issues.
 
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