Djed Spence

[Muttley]

Are you taking about the game son had 30 mins in?

I think Reggie got 15 min overlap with Son in the Wolves match. They got a bigger stint playing together in the Toon match and then more time together in the Leicester match. I've also felt Sonny in a happier place when Udogie drives them back in the wide space. I've always had a feeling that Sonny's happy space is between the LB and LCB and he needs someone in that wide area. I can imagine being right footed, so will Tel. Not seen so much of Odobert yet though.

I guess my point is to get the midfield to enable the full-backs to drive into wide forward spaces as much as we are getting full-backs to allow the midfielders to get on the high press and into forward areas. Get the balance right and I think we will go through a gear change.

 

[braineclipse]

I've not seen him play bad actually. He's not smashed it either though. My observation is also about noting how other players like Son have played when we have him on the pitch playing that way. Madds as well in one of the games. Not so much Reggie, but more playing with a full-back who is owning that entire left hand side. In the Leicester game we had a tried and trusted midfield 3 (Bents/Sarr/Berg) and inverted full-backs (Gray/Porro) and they danced through us and we threw away a much needed point in the league due to the manager's system. Then Reggie came on and huffed and puffed with the rest of them but the shape was much better.

My main point though is that it's finding the balance. We over rotated in the inverted full-backs in the early part of the season and got done down the side with the boys in the box not being tight enough. I want to see us exit this period with a better balance. I have no problem with full-backs coming into the midfield space. Not a new thing. I used to even do it myself in the 90's

I see our recent struggles way more as a result of injuries and fatigue than about the system. I just don't think Reguilon is suited to this system. I don't think Ange rates him for this system either, think that's why he hasn't been used much.

To me we've inverted the full backs less recently than we used to.

To me we had a pretty good balance on those things earlier this season. Full backs mixing it up between over and under lapping runs. Inverting, but also staying wider at times deeper in buildup.

 

[Muttley]

I see our recent struggles way more as a result of injuries and fatigue than about the system. I just don't think Reguilon is suited to this system. I don't think Ange rates him for this system either, think that's why he hasn't been used much.

To me we've inverted the full backs less recently than we used to.

To me we had a pretty good balance on those things earlier this season. Full backs mixing it up between over and under lapping runs. Inverting, but also staying wider at times deeper in buildup.

BTW, I'm not a massive Reggie fan but was frustrated with Ange when he wasn't even making the match squad and our manager started filling the bench with kids that he wouldn't put on the pitch. Reggie was actually pretty decent for Thomas Frank last season.

I also don't think it is the over and underlapping thing that is our problem. It's when a full-back should be stretching the opposition to create space for others but is sitting in the number 6 role. Let's be honest, the number 6 will only ever condense play in middle areas. Reggie just went into Walker/Rose mode and just covered that entire side. I used to love it when they did that and Eriksen and Dele got the space inside to work their magic.

 

[braineclipse]

BTW, I'm not a massive Reggie fan but was frustrated with Ange when he wasn't even making the match squad and our manager started filling the bench with kids that he wouldn't put on the pitch. Reggie was actually pretty decent for Thomas Frank last season.

I also don't think it is the over and underlapping thing that is our problem. It's when a full-back should be stretching the opposition to create space for others but is sitting in the number 6 role. Let's be honest, the number 6 will only ever condense play in middle areas. Reggie just went into Walker/Rose mode and just covered that entire side. I used to love it when they did that and Eriksen and Dele got the space inside to work their magic.

I think part of our strategy is to condense things in the middle to then play it wide. If we overload the centre that will bring more opponents centrally that the opens up space that can be exploited wide.

When a full back "should" be stretching the opposition they by default should stretch the opposition and not be centrally? But what if they shouldn't?

There was a situation in the second half against Brentford IIRC. Spence inverted and both Spence and Davies ended up pointing to Bergvall that he should go wide left. As Maddison, Sarr and Kulusevski have done countless times.

Stretching the opposition and having players wide is a rather clear part of just about every strategy, including Angeball. But who should do the stretching? That differs.

 

[Muttley]

I think part of our strategy is to condense things in the middle to then play it wide. If we overload the centre that will bring more opponents centrally that the opens up space that can be exploited wide.

When a full back "should" be stretching the opposition they by default should stretch the opposition and not be centrally? But what if they shouldn't?

There was a situation in the second half against Brentford IIRC. Spence inverted and both Spence and Davies ended up pointing to Bergvall that he should go wide left. As Maddison, Sarr and Kulusevski have done countless times.

Stretching the opposition and having players wide is a rather clear part of just about every strategy, including Angeball. But who should do the stretching? That differs.

Which is why we need our entire squad fit and really get to test this thing out, especially with our new deeper squad.

I never saw us once get 3 consistent games in a row in this system, and barely 2 either. What you and I are probably having is the idealistic conversation of what could happen when things go well. It could mean that Ange's system perhaps has a higher ceiling than Poch's or Iraola's but its more likely their's is more likely to have that consistency.

It will be fun finding out.

 

[braineclipse]

Which is why we need our entire squad fit and really get to test this thing out, especially with our new deeper squad.

I never saw us once get 3 consistent games in a row in this system, and barely 2 either. What you and I are probably having is the idealistic conversation of what could happen when things go well. It could mean that Ange's system perhaps has a higher ceiling than Poch's or Iraola's but its more likely their's is more likely to have that consistency.

It will be fun finding out.

For me the unanswered questions remain. If and to what degree me injuries is inherent to Ange and his approach. And if Ange can get consistent performances with a bigger squad that's further developed.

Agreed it will be fun (hopefully) finding out.

In part my argument is a idealistic one. I don't believe a particular system is inherently more or less effective to any significant degree. Back 3, back 4. Inverted full backs or overlapping full backs. Double pivot or single pivot. Lone striker or two strikers. High press or low block. Intricate ambitions play through pressure or just hoof it.

What matters way more imo is how suited the players are to the system (and if they "buy in" and want to play that way. And how well aligned the club is to how the manager wants to play and work.

 

[Muttley]

For me the unanswered questions remain. If and to what degree me injuries is inherent to Ange and his approach. And if Ange can get consistent performances with a bigger squad that's further developed.

Agreed it will be fun (hopefully) finding out.

In part my argument is a idealistic one. I don't believe a particular system is inherently more or less effective to any significant degree. Back 3, back 4. Inverted full backs or overlapping full backs. Double pivot or single pivot. Lone striker or two strikers. High press or low block. Intricate ambitions play through pressure or just hoof it.

What matters way more imo is how suited the players are to the system (and if they "buy in" and want to play that way. And how well aligned the club is to how the manager wants to play and work.

Always fun chatting with ya

Now get yourself over to the Injuries thread and help me answer Johnola's impossible question

 

[braineclipse]

Always fun chatting with ya

Now get yourself over to the Injuries thread and help me answer Johnola's impossible question

Same mate.

Maybe I will. I just think the answer is we don't quite know.