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Dele Alli

parklane1 said:
Must admit that i agree with this, we have tried him over the last couple of seasons in different posistions and got nowhere near the performances we need, time to accept that and move him on.
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It's interesting how long the list of players with either proven ability to create things or clear potential to create things that underperform over time for us has gotten.

Even Eriksen during the last, what, year at least while here underperformed. Only moving him to deep midfield did we actually get him on the ball enough to really impact things, and that was usually more of an emergency thing or against weaker teams.

It's almost like having two world class ball playing centre backs was really important to our buildup play. People often look to Eriksen turning his head, Dembele missing a lot of games. But I think our downturn matches just as well with the decline of Vertonghen and Alderweireld and the two of them taking turns not to play for various reasons.

It's almost like having a GK that has poor distribution, a left back that can only play at 100mph, centre backs that are either poor on the ball or that at the very least are bad at buildup play and inconsistent at best right backs makes it really difficult for creative midfielders to shine.
 
braineclipse said:
It's interesting how long the list of players with either proven ability to create things or clear potential to create things that underperform over time for us has gotten.

Even Eriksen during the last, what, year at least while here underperformed. Only moving him to deep midfield did we actually get him on the ball enough to really impact things, and that was usually more of an emergency thing or against weaker teams.

It's almost like having two world class ball playing centre backs was really important to our buildup play. People often look to Eriksen turning his head, Dembele missing a lot of games. But I think our downturn matches just as well with the decline of Vertonghen and Alderweireld and the two of them taking turns not to play for various reasons.

It's almost like having a GK that has poor distribution, a left back that can only play at 100mph, centre backs that are either poor on the ball or that at the very least are bad at buildup play and inconsistent at best right backs makes it really difficult for creative midfielders to shine.
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All true but Dele isn't a creative midfielder anyway.
 
monkeybarry said:
The question is, what kind of player is he?
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He makes runs from deep and can finish, so I guess he is supposed to arrive like Lampard and score, but spend a lot of energy on box to box running.
On the ball he does some silly things (flicks, nutmegs, dwelling too long etc) so it almost like his role is to chase around and disrupt and stop passing lanes and eventually to make it into the box and score.
 
Bullet said:
He makes runs from deep and can finish, so I guess he is supposed to arrive like Lampard and score, but spend a lot of energy on box to box running.
On the ball he does some silly things (flicks, nutmegs, dwelling too long etc) so it almost like his role is to chase around and disrupt and stop passing lanes and eventually to make it into the box and score.
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And nothing you've mentioned had he done efficiently or effectively for a long long time; it's also the list of a very limited player that doesn't fit - there is little place for such an enigma in any PL team.

If he's smart, he'd push to move to Italy.
 
Legohamster said:
He was, but he’s not been great all season

Works hard, but he seems to have lost all basic ability.
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But he never played the way which he's trying to play. He was never a dribbler or a creator, yet that was how he tried to play last night and in previous league games, he's been playing as a midfielder, which he has never player before.

WHat he used to do well, was instinctive stuff - volleys, flicks, arriving in the box and winning headers, 1-2s, quick shots.....all things which were generally done and dusted quickly

So he's now trying to play in a way which is different to what made him succeed, which makes no sense.

He's trying hard so people shouldn't 'hate' him or similar, but he's not the player which we need so I would sell in an upcomgin window
 
AdamB said:
But he never played the way which he's trying to play. He was never a dribbler or a creator, yet that was how he tried to play last night and in previous league games, he's been playing as a midfielder, which he has never player before.

WHat he used to do well, was instinctive stuff - volleys, flicks, arriving in the box and winning headers, 1-2s, quick shots.....all things which were generally done and dusted quickly

So he's now trying to play in a way which is different to what made him succeed, which makes no sense.

He's trying hard so people shouldn't 'hate' him or similar, but he's not the player which we need so I would sell in an upcomgin window
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It’s a real shame. He’s just not very good anymore. I do dislike it when players are binned by clubs or moved on after giving a lot to the club when something shinier and newer comes in. The problem here is that he’s been given seasons and seasons worth of poor performances and nothing is improving.

It’s getting to the point whereby he doesn’t really look like a footballer anymore. Nothing he does comes off or is any good. The reason he’s shifted around is because coaches are desperate for it to work but he underwhelms wherever he is on the pitch. We’re starting to talk about him in the terms of a midfield workhorse. Not good.

He’s had enough chances now I feel and a fresh start is best for all concerned. But I don’t know who would take him. Everton? Maybe Burnley? I’m really not sure.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
AdamB said:
But he never played the way which he's trying to play. He was never a dribbler or a creator, yet that was how he tried to play last night and in previous league games, he's been playing as a midfielder, which he has never player before.

WHat he used to do well, was instinctive stuff - volleys, flicks, arriving in the box and winning headers, 1-2s, quick shots.....all things which were generally done and dusted quickly

So he's now trying to play in a way which is different to what made him succeed, which makes no sense.

He's trying hard so people shouldn't 'hate' him or similar, but he's not the player which we need so I would sell in an upcomgin window
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Agree with this. I don’t buy it when people say he has taken his eye off the ball off the pitch and cares too much about modelling or Instagram. Maybe he is but I don’t see that. He has had to work hard to get where he is, it wasn’t all handed to him, far from it, and I genuinely believe it hurts him that he’s not the player he was in 2017. But we’ve given him more than enough time to regain his form now and it just hasn’t happened. Possibly Nuno doesn’t want to be the guy who gave up on him (if Jose were still here I think he would have followed through and Alli wouldn’t be) but it needs to happen unless he turns it around and quickly.
 
Even as one of his biggest fans I’m starting to come terms with the fact that he is looking a way off returning to the levels he reached a couple of years back. Although that is still symptomatic of his environment.

There’s a case for the fact that he may be trying too hard whilst at the same time redefining or discovering the player he is going be.

His breakthrough and early ascendency was a mix of a steely determination and the intrepidity of youth. Every step he took in the game, from the Dons to his England debut he’d exceeded expectations with a seamless ease.
I still think his decline started when Southgate started shoe horning into a midfield role, leaving him too far away from Kane to have the goalscoring impact that not only brought him international recognition in the first place, but was also the commodity that allowed him to float in and out of games and a licence to trade in instinctive audacious movements in areas that had a lower risk / higher reward payoff. Even then his performances were competent imo but then he got a muscular injury.

Since then we’ve become a team that has had less and less of the ball, his role is continually being redefined and the environment where he could play the class clown but still deliver on matchday has long disappeared. There has been some rumours about sleeping pills and he’s not the first young player to have struggled with Mourinho’s spacegoat approach.
I don’t doubt the penny has dropped, his physical condition shows a concerted effort is being made (although I never remember anyone thinking his problems came from a lack of bulk). The problem as I see it is that his skill set doesn’t quite suit the role he is being asked to play and he either needs to become a functional midfielder who works super hard off the ball but keeps it simple in possession or one who can protect the ball and make creative passes. The former is a role where he will never be outstanding compared to any naturally stronger players who’ve spent years honing that craft and often don’t have the skill set to make not keeping it simple an option and the latter isn’t something that I think can be taught.

It’s not quite play as a number 10 or bust for his top level career, but I think it may be for his future with us. We should have loaned him in January last year, he was never going to get games under Mourinho and a change of environment could have had the impact the West Ham loan had on Lingaard(Who I always felt was a poor man’s Dele!)

If he’s going to become an orthodox CM, I hate to say it but I think his best chance would be to seek a fresh start at a club that will have lower expectations whilst he learns the role.
 
MKSpur said:
Even as one of his biggest fans I’m starting to come terms with the fact that he is looking a way off returning to the levels he reached a couple of years back. Although that is still symptomatic of his environment.

There’s a case for the fact that he may be trying too hard whilst at the same time redefining or discovering the player he is going be.

His breakthrough and early ascendency was a mix of a steely determination and the intrepidity of youth. Every step he took in the game, from the Dons to his England debut he’d exceeded expectations with a seamless ease.
I still think his decline started when Southgate started shoe horning into a midfield role, leaving him too far away from Kane to have the goalscoring impact that not only brought him international recognition in the first place, but was also the commodity that allowed him to float in and out of games and a licence to trade in instinctive audacious movements in areas that had a lower risk / higher reward payoff. Even then his performances were competent imo but then he got a muscular injury.

Since then we’ve become a team that has had less and less of the ball, his role is continually being redefined and the environment where he could play the class clown but still deliver on matchday has long disappeared. There has been some rumours about sleeping pills and he’s not the first young player to have struggled with Mourinho’s spacegoat approach.
I don’t doubt the penny has dropped, his physical condition shows a concerted effort is being made (although I never remember anyone thinking his problems came from a lack of bulk). The problem as I see it is that his skill set doesn’t quite suit the role he is being asked to play and he either needs to become a functional midfielder who works super hard off the ball but keeps it simple in possession or one who can protect the ball and make creative passes. The former is a role where he will never be outstanding compared to any naturally stronger players who’ve spent years honing that craft and often don’t have the skill set to make not keeping it simple an option and the latter isn’t something that I think can be taught.

It’s not quite play as a number 10 or bust for his top level career, but I think it may be for his future with us. We should have loaned him in January last year, he was never going to get games under Mourinho and a change of environment could have had the impact the West Ham loan had on Lingaard(Who I always felt was a poor man’s Dele!)

If he’s going to become an orthodox CM, I hate to say it but I think his best chance would be to seek a fresh start at a club that will have lower expectations whilst he learns the role.
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Yep
His skills are effective in the final third of the pitch
 
MKSpur said:
Even as one of his biggest fans I’m starting to come terms with the fact that he is looking a way off returning to the levels he reached a couple of years back. Although that is still symptomatic of his environment.

There’s a case for the fact that he may be trying too hard whilst at the same time redefining or discovering the player he is going be.

His breakthrough and early ascendency was a mix of a steely determination and the intrepidity of youth. Every step he took in the game, from the Dons to his England debut he’d exceeded expectations with a seamless ease.
I still think his decline started when Southgate started shoe horning into a midfield role, leaving him too far away from Kane to have the goalscoring impact that not only brought him international recognition in the first place, but was also the commodity that allowed him to float in and out of games and a licence to trade in instinctive audacious movements in areas that had a lower risk / higher reward payoff. Even then his performances were competent imo but then he got a muscular injury.

Since then we’ve become a team that has had less and less of the ball, his role is continually being redefined and the environment where he could play the class clown but still deliver on matchday has long disappeared. There has been some rumours about sleeping pills and he’s not the first young player to have struggled with Mourinho’s spacegoat approach.
I don’t doubt the penny has dropped, his physical condition shows a concerted effort is being made (although I never remember anyone thinking his problems came from a lack of bulk). The problem as I see it is that his skill set doesn’t quite suit the role he is being asked to play and he either needs to become a functional midfielder who works super hard off the ball but keeps it simple in possession or one who can protect the ball and make creative passes. The former is a role where he will never be outstanding compared to any naturally stronger players who’ve spent years honing that craft and often don’t have the skill set to make not keeping it simple an option and the latter isn’t something that I think can be taught.

It’s not quite play as a number 10 or bust for his top level career, but I think it may be for his future with us. We should have loaned him in January last year, he was never going to get games under Mourinho and a change of environment could have had the impact the West Ham loan had on Lingaard(Who I always felt was a poor man’s Dele!)

If he’s going to become an orthodox CM, I hate to say it but I think his best chance would be to seek a fresh start at a club that will have lower expectations whilst he learns the role.
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He hasn't played the role he made his in for over two years, but its expected that he produces the same stats.
He hasn't become a bad player, just one not suited to our play.
 
A large part of Dele's game was based on him making runs in behind, especially when the the other team tries to push out, and Dele receiving a pin point 60 meter pass from Alderweireld. Who's going to feed him those passes now? That was basically what he did, and I can see that he's trying to play a differt way now. He's trying to be a more versatile, all-round player, but it's not working very well.
Don't think we'll ever see the 'old' Dele again, because his best abilities were pretty much tailor made for our style and complemented the rest of the team at the time.
He's now more of a workhorse player, that isn't particularly good at anything, that'll only occasionally produce what he once did on a regular basis.
As long as he realises his limitations and starts keeping it simple, instead of trying to pretend he's Messi/Ronaldinho, he'll do a job for us.
 
monkeybarry said:
The question is, what kind of player is he? We know what he was - but he hasn't really adapted to how football has changed and added to his game.
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That's a question for Dele himself. He should know what he's good at and what he's not. He would be disappointed by how others have taken his place in the England National Team and needs to be hungry enough to fight for his place. My feeling just looking at him is that he is trying everything half heartedly and its no good at this level. I honestly think his head grew too big and he has just lost that primal motivation to play and to win. He is clearly better in the fashion stuff too, maybe he is headed the way of David Bentley. The more Dele plays, the more average he gets.
 
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