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Dele Alli

billyiddo said:
It's the lack of chances in the EL that are confusing - arguably our best attacking player the last game he started and then frozen out after that. Seems to me if there was a genuine desire to see him regain his place in the squad then those are the games you would be being giving him chances in and after the Ludogrets game it's the type of performance that you'd expect us to want to take in to the next game and build upon - 2 more performances like that in the remaining group games and all of sudden he looks like a good option off the bench in the league in more important games or a viable alternative should someone in front of him in the pecking order gets injured/drops their levels - but no, he puts in a good performance (better than any starting attackers performance since in the EL) and then never given a chance to build on it.
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I agree with you. Of course there are things on the training ground and things said we aren’t privy too but every time he’s played since Everton he’s covered ground, pressed the opposition and contributed to attacking play. Our last Europa game was worse than Antwerp imo but there was not the same half time subs for any of those players. I’m resigned to the fact he’s going and I know opinions on players can differ, but this is the one that has stood out for me where the reversal in fortune has been huge, swift and without much in the (public) way of opportunity to prove otherwise.
 
tommysvr said:
I understand your point, but apart from a good spell right after Jose came in, he just hasn’t been good enough often enough.

I thought Bergwijn might follow a similar fate - he looked as though he’d dropped to 5th choice with Son, Bale, Moura and Lamela ahead of him, but suddenly he’s started our biggest matches recently. It seems to me that he’s knuckled down whereas Dele (I am very much only assuming here, no way to know for sure) hasn’t done the same. Don’t put the effort in away from matches, you don’t play. You could say that is Mourinho taking issue with his approach, but the manager’s opinion is the only one that counts.
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Dele and Stevie B are such different players. Stevie B is FAST and does a defensive job and is a speedy outlet. From what I recall, his attacking output hasn’t been significant this year, but he does the other part of the job.
Sadly, as many of the great memories of recent years include Dele, he doesn’t seem to fit on the current playing structure.
And I’m guessing that is the reason he isn’t getting the minutes. It seems more important for Gio, Bale, Ndomb to get the playing time. Maybe if we’d been four up a giant Antwerp he might have got on, but we weren’t. And two up is not enough to comfortably close out a game.
 
Alli is not going to get in the system that relies on two pacey supporters to Kane on the break. Moura and Bergie are not quality on the ball but they are quick so play into a very specific system.

Bale wont be trusted in that role either in the league, I feel Jose is keeping that one quiet in the EL because he has to, but for the same reason Bale not having pace like Bergie and Moura he wont play him in league unless he finds that again.
 
StephenH said:
Pogba, Shaw, Petr Cech, Salad, De Bruyne, Mata and Arjen Robben to name but a few....
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Ok...
so some kids he brought in who didn’t succeed at the time and needed a few moves to become world class (de bruyne and salah)
Pogba played for him when he was fit. The issue was he wasn’t fit enough
Shaw is always thrown in. Fat boy shaw, the player who got hyped up beyond his ability. I get why he was flagged up as a challenge for Jose as he was and still is a weak defender.
Robben, Cech, Mata... please enlighten me
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Ok...
so some kids he brought in who didn’t succeed at the time and needed a few moves to become world class (de bruyne and Salad)
Pogba played for him when he was fit. The issue was he wasn’t fit enough
Shaw is always thrown in. Fat boy shaw, the player who got hyped up beyond his ability. I get why he was flagged up as a challenge for Jose as he was and still is a weak defender.
Robben, Cech, Mata... please enlighten me
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All sold, because?
 
StephenH said:
All sold, because?
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Who was sold?
Mata he played at United didn’t he after selling him for a £15m profit at chelsea
He also brought at United Matic who he sold form Chelsea
Cech he replaced and he went downhill at arsenal
Robben I though agitated to leave but I may be wrong

mane what I always love about the De Britney and Salah examples are when people forget who played instead of them... Lampard, Essien, Hazard, Pedro and Willian I believe, Oscar too!
There not bad players and it would explain why they didn’t get games wouldnt it?

It’s also why Dele isn’t getting in right now. Better players ahead of him
 
There is no doubt that Alli is a top player, but as i have said before his strengths do not really suit the way we play at this moment. I really can not see how a player who usually play off the cuff like he does fits into what is now a structured system. Harsh for Alli maybe but the results show that our system at the moment is working well and imo getting stronger.

The only way i can see it changing is if Jose decides to play with a different system or Alli changing his talents into a more structured way.
 
parklane1 said:
There is no doubt that Alli is a top player, but as i have said before his strengths do not really suit the way we play at this moment. I really can not see how a player who usually play off the cuff like he does fits into what is now a structured system. Harsh for Alli maybe but the results show that our system at the moment is working well and imo getting stronger.

The only way i can see it changing is if Jose decides to play with a different system or Alli changing his talents into a more structured way.
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Why can he not play the role he played last time out in the Europa? Nothing has to change for him to do that.
 
billyiddo said:
Why can he not play the role he played last time out in the Europa? Nothing has to change for him to do that.
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Well imo he did not play that well as some have suggested, also we have players who suit the system better. Listen as i have said he is a very talented player who imo does not suit the way we play ( as much as others do) I hope i am wrong but i do not see it happening. We shall see.
 
parklane1 said:
Well imo he did not play that well as some have suggested, also we have players who suit the system better. Listen as i have said he is a very talented player who imo does not suit the way we play ( as much as others do) I hope i am wrong but i do not see it happening. We shall see.
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I agree but why play players in europa games that you need for the league when you have a player of deles quality available?
 
parklane1 said:
Well imo he did not play that well as some have suggested, also we have players who suit the system better. Listen as i have said he is a very talented player who imo does not suit the way we play ( as much as others do) I hope i am wrong but i do not see it happening. We shall see.
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Harsh crowd - 2 assists and a vital roll in a third goal, loads of general link up play in and around the final third with lots of quick thinking creative passes setting up attacking moves whilst working hard off the ball. Was praised in every single match report I've read.

It was a good performance that showed his suitability to the roll he was asked to play.

Lo Celso plays like that and everyone would be rightly praising him.
 
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StephenH said:
Far too rational, it's basically Jose vs Dele.;)
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This is what you were saying about Ndombele last season. Things can change too quickly and I think that you are too quick to get a downer on our players.

StephenH said:
£60m for him! Unbelievable!
Some heads should role for this!
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StephenH said:
We are absolutely terrible at picking players, dreadful.
We buy players like a struggling clubs does.
It will be interesting to see what Mourinho does in our system!
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StephenH said:
why?
We need quality in depth!
NDombele was bought with good intentions of that I have no doubt!
But who scouted and put him forward as a possible purchase when we now know he is totally wrong for the league! This person or people need to answer some serious questions imho
Who the hell else bid for him?
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StephenH said:
He looks alarmingly incapable of covering the ground/area required to perform his midfield role.
Is he a defensive mid or an allrounder or a playmaker?
I really see him as a poor mans, permanently injured Dembele of old. Burnley today were far too physical for him!
I hope you are right but I’m just gobsmack by ineptness especially at £63m:eek:
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StephenH said:
I think he will be sold this summer.
We get Mr Blobby, United get Bruno Fernandes for roughly the same price.
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StephenH said:
Exactly we need players that are fully committed.
What happens when his form dips from its current level?
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StephenH said:
I always wonder who does all the character and profile suitability checking on these purchases?
Jose can’t afford another falling out.
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StephenH said:
gone on too long............cut our loses
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StephenH said:
You can lead a horse to water..................but you can't 'make him' play for us.
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StephenH said:
I can see us cutting our loses and doing a deal.....sad
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