Definitely not an out of car window Transfer Thread

[Finney Is Back]

Poor? Really?

I will agree that he wasn't great, things didn't come off for him like it did in that second half against Palace. But I thought he looked useful. Some good involvements, some not so good. Always wanted the ball, very tidy on the ball. Looks for good options.

In a team with a lot of first choice players missing I thought he was fine, promising.

Then again, I thought he was alright in the first half against Palace. Perhaps we have different standards for the words we use.

Yep. Poor. He was up against a 3rd tier team and I don't think I saw one moment where he created something worthwhile. He runs around a lot and jinks and twists but not really to any effect. The drop off from Kulusevski to him is a very big one.

I thought he had a good second half against Palace. However that is the only good half of football I have seen him have (admittedly though he hasn't had many chances). I don't think he is yet good enough to be a first reserve player for a team that wants to be in the top 4 and certainly not yet good enough for a team that has designs on winning the league. He may end up becoming so (he has some aspects to his game that I like) but I think it will be hard for him to develop into a good enough player while at our club, especially with the demands for European football that come from the chairman and the fans. I think him developing in England at a lower level club to Spurs would be best all round but that means we need to sign another option who is ready to contribute right now.

 

[Finney Is Back]

In what way? Is he not a slightly better in the air form of Dier?

At least 10% better than Dier at everything I think.

 

[glorygloryeze]

At least 10% better than Dier at everything I think.

For the cost and baggage, that's not really saying much..

 

[Finney Is Back]

A player would have to be nuts to go to Chelsea now (unless it's for nothing but wages, in which case we were never competing anyway)

- Out of both domestic cups, in the form they are in, probably CL next
- Manager under huge pressure, likely to be gone by time the window closes
- New owners that no one knows what they will do.
- Highly unlikely to have CL next season

Sorry but that view wouldn't be shared by anyone actually in football. Chelsea are the most successful English club of the last 20 years in terms of trophies won. They have an incredible youth system that consistently churns out first team players and a big budget for the first team that they have demonstrably used to ensure that they remain competetive.

Any player being offered even exactly the same wage to join Chelsea or Tottenham would likely pick the former. I hate to say that but it is simply the reality.

 

[Finney Is Back]

For the cost and baggage, that's not really saying much..

I've no idea what he would cost and wasn't looking at him in terms of 'value' just that he would improve our team. If we're considering 'value' then I've said a fair few times that I think Ndicka would be a very good player for us to sign.

 

[Raziel]

Sorry but that view wouldn't be shared by anyone actually in football. Chelsea are the most successful English club of the last 20 years in terms of trophies won. They have an incredible youth system that consistently churns out first team players and a big budget for the first team that they have demonstrably used to ensure that they remain competetive.

Any player being offered even exactly the same wage to join Chelsea or Tottenham would likely pick the former. I hate to say that but it is simply the reality.

Mate that was exactly the conversation on several media channels yesterday, specific to Enzo coming. (so not my take)

Leaving Spurs out of the conversation, it's a risk to go to Chelsea right now, they are in disarray and while they seems to be money, no one knows if it's RA style (i.e. keep throwing until you solve the problem)

 

[Finney Is Back]

P.S. @Finney Is Back you still haven't replied about how/why our scouting team are seen as a joke in youth circles (or something to that effect; you posted it a few days ago and still haven't replied to a question i had about your post)?

Sorry missed that mate.... Well basically until Paratici came in we pretty much had no coherent structure at all. If you look at the big European clubs they have large scouting departments with decent budgets and operations in many countries, having chief scouts at national level, regional scouts, junior scouts and part time scouts. We were mostly using using part time scouts and not paying commensurate salaries or bonuses for the few fulltime scouts that we had. On the youth side of things we are not competing with our peers for the best players, we have basically accepted that in London Chelsea and Arsenal will take the best players and we will take those they don't want/miss. I have heard some noises that Paratici is addressing both of these failings but they're not quick fixes.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Mate that was exactly the conversation on several media channels yesterday, specific to Enzo coming. (so not my take)

Leaving Spurs out of the conversation, it's a risk to go to Chelsea right now, they are in disarray and while they seems to be money, no one knows if it's RA style (i.e. keep throwing until you solve the problem)

I bet they continue to sign some of the best young players in the World. I mean look how they signed Badashile last week with the minimum of fuss, in a position that they're nowhere near desperate for reinforcements in, for a fee very similar to Porro's release clause that we seem unable/unwilling to meet despite the fact that RWB is one of the weakest two positions in our first team.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Sorry missed that mate.... Well basically until Paratici came in we pretty much had no coherent structure at all. If you look at the big European clubs they have large scouting departments with decent budgets and operations in many countries, having chief scouts at national level, regional scouts, junior scouts and part time scouts. We were mostly using using part time scouts and not paying commensurate salaries or bonuses for the few fulltime scouts that we had. On the youth side of things we are not competing with our peers for the best players, we have basically accepted that in London Chelsea and Arsenal will take the best players and we will take those they don't want/miss. I have heard some noises that Paratici is addressing both of these failings but they're not quick fixes.

Wowzers. I always thought we were well thought of on the Youth front. When did we get so low in this regard, or have we always been in the last 20 years?

 

[harr1984]

Mate that was exactly the conversation on several media channels yesterday, specific to Enzo coming. (so not my take)

Leaving Spurs out of the conversation, it's a risk to go to Chelsea right now, they are in disarray and while they seems to be money, no one knows if it's RA style (i.e. keep throwing until you solve the problem)

It’s hardly a risk, this is just something fans from clubs such as ours would like to make out. They will be paid handsomely, playing with some top international players. They will almost always dine at the top table, if they aren’t competing one season they will the next one way or another and are always in the conversation for trophies. Them having an off season still holds more likelihood they win something than we do….

 

[glorygloryeze]

Mate that was exactly the conversation on several media channels yesterday, specific to Enzo coming. (so not my take)

Leaving Spurs out of the conversation, it's a risk to go to Chelsea right now, they are in disarray and while they seems to be money, no one knows if it's RA style (i.e. keep throwing until you solve the problem)

Let's be honest: money talks, bullsh$t walks.

The worst case for the player is that Chelsea go downhill and he is loaned/sold somewhere else..

 

[Finney Is Back]

Wowzers. I always thought we were well thought of on the Youth front. When did we get so low in this regard, or have we always been in the last 20 years?

It largely started when Mitchell left when the club chose not to listen to his recommendations (nor pay him his worth). Things then really started to drift. John McDermott leaving us also set us back. Personally I don't think the club did enough to keep John, I think he may well have been able to be persuaded to stay at Spurs instead of taking on the FA's Technical Director role, though I would imagine us having the paucity of scouts that we did and us not competing for the best young players may have played the biggest part in him leaving (there are only so many turds that one can roll in glitter).

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It’s hardly a risk, this is just something fans from clubs such as ours would like to make out. They will be paid handsomely, playing with some top international players. They will almost always dine at the top table, if they aren’t competing one season they will the next one way or another and are always in the conversation for trophies. Them having an off season still holds more likelihood they win something than we do….

How do they fund next season, and the one after ?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Sorry but that view wouldn't be shared by anyone actually in football. Chelsea are the most successful English club of the last 20 years in terms of trophies won. They have an incredible youth system that consistently churns out first team players and a big budget for the first team that they have demonstrably used to ensure that they remain competetive.

Any player being offered even exactly the same wage to join Chelsea or Tottenham would likely pick the former. I hate to say that but it is simply the reality.

100%
But that was under the old owners and structure
They are weirdly ripping it all up and starting new it seems which is just daft

 

[glorygloryeze]

It largely started when Mitchell left when the club chose not to listen to his recommendations (nor pay him his worth). Things then really started to drift. John McDermott leaving us also set us back. Personally I don't think the club did enough to keep John, I think he may well have been able to be persuaded to stay at Spurs instead of taking on the FA's Technical Director role, though I would imagine us having the paucity of scouts that we did and us not competing for the best young players may have played the biggest part in him leaving (there are only so many turds that one can polish).

How did we get to this point? Is it simply taking a priority to focus on the stadium and first team? I mean we always know that we are behind the very top teams in terms of first team wages..is this a sort of 'balancing act' in terms of overall player spend??

 

[Finney Is Back]

How did we get to this point? Is it simply taking a priority to focus on the stadium and first team? I mean we always know that we are behind the very top teams in terms of first team wages..is this a sort of 'balancing act' in terms of overall player spend??

We don't/didn't want to pay for the best people. Even Paratici was a compromise. The very best DoF in World football was available in Luis Campos but he makes a lot of demands on the club he works for.

To be fair that is slightly harsh as Paratici is extremely respected in the game and probably considered to be in the top 5 Sporting Directors.

 

[glorygloryeze]

How do they fund next season, and the one after ?

Tbf, after next season it might become more sell to buy plus sponsorship incomes in they maintain top 4 or win the CL...high risk stakes but the top clubs do tend to take higher risks every now and then (though we know without RA money they'd have possible gone into administration...another level of high risk!)

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Tbf, after next season it might become more sell to buy plus sponsorship incomes in they maintain top 4 or win the CL...high risk stakes but the top clubs do tend to take higher risks every now and then (though we know without RA money they'd have possible gone into administration...another level of high risk!)

They will be paying back the £800m loan potentially with significantly less revenue than previous seasons due to this seasons failing
The wage bill will also have gone up as they have brought and brought and so far.. not sold as far as I can tell

 

[glorygloryeze]

We don't/didn't want to pay for the best people.

I understand that for the first team, given size of ground etc compared to other back then, but surely if you're model is to use youth, become self-sustaining etc you'd at least prioritise good scouting? Make no sense and i'm quite shocked (and i'm not exactly a lover of ENIC, but at least give them credit fotr making good business decisions generally)

 

[glorygloryeze]

They will be paying back the £800m loan potentially with significantly less revenue than previous seasons due to this seasons failing
The wage bill will also have gone up as they have brought and brought and so far.. not sold as far as I can tell

Splendid!