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Dear oh dear Ed Milliband, what a joke of a man !!!

camspur said:
Here's the BBC's take on debt and deficit figures http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25944653
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Thank you; you can see why the man in the street has no idea what is going on and just latches on to whichever story they prefer, the one that backs up their choice.

If they have strong feelings for the party in power they will latch on to certain soundbites, and vice versa.

Just as you think you are understanding everything, the article says "However....!"

It can be summed up by these two quotes:

"The thing is, when most politicians and commentators talk about the deficit, they are not actually talking about the budget deficit. Helpful, isn't it? There are some exceptions - as a former Treasury man, Mr Balls talks about the current budget - but most are actually referring to government borrowing".

"So there you have it. The next time you hear politicians arguing about debt levels and deficits, you'll hopefully be in a better position to decide who's right and who's wrong. Just bear in mind they could be talking about different things, so don't be surprised if they're both right. Or wrong."



I presume somebody somewhere online has created a demonstration/analogy that is simpler to understand, e.g. a person with a mortgage and debts to pay for a car and greenhouse and their salary and bills and and...
 
milo said:
This is the last time I'll link to this (the last time it rather got lost in the squabbling), it is highly speculative but you might find this an interesting read.

http://www.therestlessrealist.com/2014/10/could-ukip-come-second-in-2015.html?m=1
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That is a very good read, the only problem I have with it is that it presumes that UKIP will only take Tory votes whereas we've seen in the recent local elections Labour safe seats are also being attacked and their majorities cut.

What I could easily see is that the Tory voters in Labour seats vote UKIP in the hope that the flipflops and radicals also vote for UKIP and nick a seat or two but they won't desert the Conservatives in their safe seats. Whether Labour voters could bring themselves to vote UKIP I'm not so sure.

Read this piece and you'll see that view put forward http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnis...ate-london-thats-why-labour-should-be-scared/
 
milo said:
This is the last time I'll link to this (the last time it rather got lost in the squabbling), it is highly speculative but you might find this an interesting read.

http://www.therestlessrealist.com/2014/10/could-ukip-come-second-in-2015.html?m=1
Click to expand...

camspur said:
That is a very good read, the only problem I have with it is that it presumes that UKIP will only take Tory votes whereas we've seen in the recent local elections Labour safe seats are also being attacked and their majorities cut.

What I could easily see is that the Tory voters in Labour seats vote UKIP in the hope that the flipflops and radicals also vote for UKIP and nick a seat or two but they won't desert the Conservatives in their safe seats. Whether Labour voters could bring themselves to vote UKIP I'm not so sure.

Read this piece and you'll see that view put forward http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnis...ate-london-thats-why-labour-should-be-scared/
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Both good articles.

I'm inclined to agree more with the one in the Spectator - not just because I want to, but also because it has seemed so far that UKIP are taking votes from everywhere. They've done a very good job of marketing themselves as the party for someone who would describe themselves as "a normal bloke" as well as doing a very good job of avoiding looking like a party for someone I'd describe as "a racist cvnt".

Without wanting to invoke Godwin, I have very serious fears for what the future holds if they were to become the second party in UK politics. Especially with Milibland so desperate to cosy up to his thieving gangster friends in the unions - we could essentially be left with two extreme parties, both as bad as each other.
 
scaramanga said:
Both good articles.

I'm inclined to agree more with the one in the Spectator - not just because I want to, but also because it has seemed so far that UKIP are taking votes from everywhere. They've done a very good job of marketing themselves as the party for someone who would describe themselves as "a normal bloke". They've also done a very good job of avoiding looking like a party for someone I'd describe as "a racist cvnt".

Without wanting to invoke Godwin, I have very serious fears for what the future holds if they were to become the second party in UK politics. Especially with Milibland so desperate to cosy up to his thieving gangster friends in the unions - we could essentially be left with two extreme parties, both as bad as each other.
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What is interesting and makes the election so difficult to predict is the bleed to UKIP from the main parties.

I suspect that we will see far more Tories defecting to UKIP than we will Labour voters but obviously Labour will lose votes to the SNP north of the boarder. I suspect that Labour will benefit most from a LibDem collapse but some of those votes and disaffected Labour votes will go to the Greens.

There has even been some speculation of moderate Labour voters switching to the Tories in Rochester to try and stop UKIP.

All in all it is impossible to predict. Our electoral system was not designed for an election like this.
 
milo said:
What is interesting and makes the election so difficult to predict is the bleed to UKIP from the main parties.

I suspect that we will see far more Tories defecting to UKIP than we will Labour voters but obviously Labour will lose votes to the SNP north of the boarder. I suspect that Labour will benefit most from a LibDem collapse but some of those votes and disaffected Labour votes will go to the Greens.

There has even been some speculation of moderate Labour voters switching to the Tories in Rochester to try and stop UKIP.

All in all it is impossible to predict. Our electoral system was not designed for an election like this.
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I have to agree there, I could see Labour losing a lot of seats to the SNP and then UKIP taking seats from all parties in England, we could easily end up with 3 parties with a similar amount of seats and no coalition to be found.
 
camspur said:
I have to agree there, I could see Labour losing a lot of seats to the SNP and then UKIP taking seats from all parties in England, we could easily end up with 3 parties with a similar amount of seats and no coalition to be found.
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I don't think our electoral system is very likely to produce an outcome like that.
 
milo said:
I don't think our electoral system is very likely to produce an outcome like that.
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Depends how big a swing to UKIP and SNP it is, if Labour lost 30 seats to SNP and 20 to UKIP, the Conservatives lost 60 to UKIP and the Lib Dems losing 50 to UKIP we'd be looking at:

Conservatives 172
Labour 167
UKIP 130
LibDems 55

Not likely to happen but not an impossible scenario
 
camspur said:
Depends how big a swing to UKIP and SNP it is, if Labour lost 30 seats to SNP and 20 to UKIP, the Conservatives lost 60 to UKIP and the Lib Dems losing 50 to UKIP we'd be looking at:

Conservatives 172
Labour 167
UKIP 130
LibDems 55

Not likely to happen but not an impossible scenario
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Despite their claims to the contrary, UKIP would jump in with the Conservatives in no time. I also think that they'd accept a referendum rather than instantly leaving the EU as long as they were allowed to campaign separately on it - just like the Student Party and PR.

The Student Party won't form a coalition with Labour either - they're still making a big deal of fixing the economy and reducing the deficit. I can't see them completely reversing that and joining a tax and spend party in power.
 
Heavyweight Cabinet minister Eric Pickles has spent more than £500,000 on luxury limos.

Labour number crunchers have added up payments Mr Pickles made to the Government Car & Despatch Agency which supplies the vehicles.

And they found the Communities Secretary spent £247,775 on two ministerial cars in 2012 and £185,935 in 2013.

But in the first six months of this year he had already shelled out £103,091, an almost 11% increase.

Shadow Cabinet Office minister Jon Ashworth said: “This looks like seriously wasteful activity.

“Mr Pickles should be cutting costs, not driving around in luxury courtesy of the taxpayer.”

Mr Pickles has already told local authorities to slash travel spending to save money.

Westminster is only two stops on the London underground from Mr Pickles’ Whitehall office in Victoria.

A return ticket costs £4.40 - and £536,801 would pay for 122,000 of them.

He could buy an annual travelcard for £1,256 - and the money he spent on limos would pay for 427 of those.

Communities minister Brandon Lewis said the number of cars since Labour was in charge has gone down from six to two between seven ministers.

He added: “The hypocrisy of Labour is breath-taking. We have reduced the cost of ministerial cars substantially.”
 
http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/survey/select

On the subject of voting for policies rather than people, the above link is worth a clicky. Choose 6 subjects (I.e. Crime, environment, economy, immigration etc) and you will then be presented with a number of policies from all of the main political parties (including Greens and UKIP), but won't be told which policies belong to which party.

I was surprised to find the results showed me to be 25% Tory. I always knew I was a bit of a ****er, but it still hurts to see it confirmed on screen.
 
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don't worry mate, you are already quarter of the way there, we get more conservative as we get older and understand more about how the world works, you'll increase that
 
ShelfLife said:
http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/survey/select

On the subject of voting for policies rather than people, the above link is worth a clicky. Choose 6 subjects (I.e. Crime, environment, economy, immigration etc) and you will then be presented with a number of policies from all of the main political parties (including Greens and UKIP), but won't be told which policies belong to which party.

I was surprised to find the results showed me to be 25% Tory. I always knew I was a bit of a ****er, but it still hurts to see it confirmed on screen.
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I was 50% Labour, 25% Tory, 25% Green.
 
Not sure how many people will admit to/remember this, but before the last election the general consensus on here was that nobody should want to win the election. There was so much work to be done and the economy was so fvcked that any political party taking that poisoned chalice would be unelectable for decades. That was also the opinion of a number of respected political commentators.

Bearing that in mind, I think the following link shows us just what an utter shambles of a man David's brother is. Especially considering that the incumbent government always polls a few points below where they eventually end up.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/11/14/conservatives-lead-1/
 
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