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Davinson Sanchez
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
Notmegov
Roman Pavlyuchenko
24-year-old CB christ we could give him another 4 years then judge him. A pre-season with the devil is going to help no end.
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
His lack of progression/improvement is a worry (is this his 3rd season?)
BUT if you take the 4 CHs of the top 6 he doesn't rate too badly. What that might actually show is how hard it is to find a stellar CH.
I think with a coach renowned for getting the defence right, we've gotta keep him and see if Jose can iron out some of the creases.
BUT if you take the 4 CHs of the top 6 he doesn't rate too badly. What that might actually show is how hard it is to find a stellar CH.
I think with a coach renowned for getting the defence right, we've gotta keep him and see if Jose can iron out some of the creases.
I only really noticed he was playing around 25 odd minutes in and barely noticed him the rest of the evening - for a defender that generally means he's done pretty good
parklane1
Tony Galvin
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
A while ago, I compared him to how Mourinho used Lucio at Inter in his treble-winning season. Essentially, Mourinho wanted Ricardo Carvalho to be the speedy half of his centre-back pairing, and felt Carvalho + Samuel/Materazzi would be the perfect pairing. Didn't get him, and the Inter board instead brought in Lucio to fill the same role - he had the speed, but unlike Carvalho, his on-the-ball abilities were basically zero. Nevertheless, he could clear up behind the defense, stick his head where it hurt, and be an unsophisticated destroyer keeping things under control while Samuel/Materazzi gave him tactical instructions and 'led' the defense.
Sanchez is like Lucio, without Lucio's mental resilience. He plays (and can play) much the same role, but with a few more fudgeups, and a bit less consistency. The trouble is, we don't really have a Samuel / Materazzi next to him to keep him focused and committed, so his performance wanders significantly.
Dier has the 'shout and point' bits right, but I'm not convinced he's a leader that people listen to. For evidence, look at all the times he issues rallying cries in the press and then the team immediately lets him down in the next game.
While Toby is more akin to Carvalho than he is to Terry/Samuel/a leader type - defender on cruise control, but used to being the 'second' in a pairing, if that makes sense.
The best is yet to come with Sanchez, but I wonder if it will come with a different centre-back partner - a real leader type. But then, the same could be said of all our players - we need a leader.
Sanchez is like Lucio, without Lucio's mental resilience. He plays (and can play) much the same role, but with a few more fudgeups, and a bit less consistency. The trouble is, we don't really have a Samuel / Materazzi next to him to keep him focused and committed, so his performance wanders significantly.
Dier has the 'shout and point' bits right, but I'm not convinced he's a leader that people listen to. For evidence, look at all the times he issues rallying cries in the press and then the team immediately lets him down in the next game.
While Toby is more akin to Carvalho than he is to Terry/Samuel/a leader type - defender on cruise control, but used to being the 'second' in a pairing, if that makes sense.
The best is yet to come with Sanchez, but I wonder if it will come with a different centre-back partner - a real leader type. But then, the same could be said of all our players - we need a leader.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Not sure why certain posters mention his age in every single post. He’s 24, not 17. Age and experience won’t solve his inability to pass a ball, or his susceptibility to long, high balls. He may get more street wise and learn how to dominate physical centre forwards with experience. He’s at an age where we should still be able to command a semi decent fee so I’d sell and replace him.
Centre backs peak much later than most other positions, and you rarely see a player like Davinson with about 100 games at a top English club before his 24th birthday. For context, at 24, Van Dijk was at Celtic, Maguire was at Hull, Koulibaly had just moved from Genk to Napoli, Toby was on the bench at Atletico, and Jan was looking ropey as hell in his first Premier League season.
For me, he has all the physical and technical attributes needed to be the more mobile of two center backs, just without the tactical nous and ability to cut out mistakes that very few 24 year old's have. For CBs under 25 in the Premier League, besides Laporte, I'm not sure you're finding much better or accomplished ones than Davinson.
The only one I think has a higher ceiling than him is Gomez, but he's hurt a lot, has made plenty of errors, and is playing next to Van Dijk and behind a rock solid CM. Davinson is constantly left out on islands because he is playing behind a midfield that cannot track runners and full-backs who are either severely athletically limited (Davies) or completely unpredictable. He's also very reliable fitness-wise, playing in about 40 games in each of our seasons.
With a squad that has some gaping holes (RB, DM, back-up striker), selling one of our young building blocks seems like a bad idea.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Could not have put it better, well said.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Disagree with just about all of this. Vertonghen was excellent in his first season with us, extremely harsh to say ropey, in fact, he got in the PL team of the year.
The only physical attribute he has is pace. He’s strong but he’s not smart with it. He often shoves strikers because he gets frustrated because he can’t handle them. He struggles with long high balls. And that’s before you mention his distribution which is awful. He had one excellent season but he’s regressed ever since.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
Jan most certainly was
But he did have a shocker around 2nd season Poch when his contract was being negotiated IIRC
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Gomez has not always been shielded by a rock solid dm, and has actually had a right back next to him that was clearly quite shaky defensively for quite a while.
I agree with some of what you say. He has a lot of talent, unfortunately he has barely pushed on, if at all, since his impressive first season.
Some things should improve with experience and time, I'd suggest we should have seen clear signs of that already to be properly optimistic. I'll accept the call for patience though.
Where he clearly falls flat is his technical ability with the ball. Close control, passes, even clearances. I'd be interested to see how Jan and Toby would compare on their weaker foot compared to his stronger. Not saying they would be better, but it's closer than it should be.
Technical ability rarely improves that much with experience and time past his age. People have argued that it's fine as long as we have another ball playing CB next to him. Perhaps, but it will always be a weakness, a weakness very few teams playing at the level we want to be accept. If anyone can make it work at the highest level it's Mourinho, so he has that going for him.
The problem is compounded by relatively poor technical ability from other players around him. Lloris and Sissoko in particular imo. If we want to rely on Sanchez as first choice it should influence our decisions in the transfer market significantly. Not to the extent of selling Lloris, but any GK, DM or full back we sign must be very good on the ball imo.
Whoops, sorry, I meant the second season where he was calamitous and sulking around the pitch. I even remember Sherwood saying that "that guy cannot defend after a match" lol. Look at the press from that time, basically everyone was calling Jan a flop and he was two years further along in his development than Sanchez.
Otherwise, I'm not sure what specifically you disagree with. That most of the best center backs weren't anywhere near what they became at 24? That there are plenty of other better young CBs in the Prem?
Also, he wins a higher percentage of arial duels and challenges than Toby and has only 1 error that has led to a goal in his three seasons in the Prem. TransfrMarket has him rated as one of the most valuable defenders in the world. I honestly don't understand why, with this many holes, this is the member of the squad you want to sell.
How about this... If we sold Davinson, which we could for big money very easily, who would you recommend we replace him with? He's not perfect, but find me a more tested, more accomplished young CB who isn't named Aymeric Laporte in the Prem and I'll be all for it.
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Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Fundamentally it appears you rate him a lot higher than I do. I accept he has pace and is strong but he doesn’t use his strength effectively. He often gets dominated by strikers and gets frustrated and shoves them. His passing is dreadful and hasn’t improved in 3 years. I honestly don’t see that improving with age or experience just as Lloris’s distribution hasn’t improved as his career has gone on.
He certainly has some technical ability problems.
Still has a significantly higher xGBuildup/90 than Sissoko though
Bishop
John Lacy
I imagine only Lloris doesn't and even that is to be confirmed. [emoji38]He certainly has some technical ability problems.
Still has a significantly higher xGBuildup/90 than Sissoko though
You're right, his is lower.
Son and Kane are lower but that's because they're at the end of the buildup rather than a part of it.
Sissoko is also at the end of many buildups bit for very different reasons.
