Daniel Levy - Chairman

[braineclipse]

Yeah, you're in the right zone on most there.

The way I simply put it is by asking myself how far are we from being "optimal" on the football operations side. It's not just a football question but also a commercial question. There have been so many times the 25 years where the answer isn't favourable at all. I would state though that no club is ever "optimal". It's just about how close you can get to optimal. We've been a country mile away at times. We've had so may costly players that have had no positive impact to the 1st team. We've had an unproductive burn of capital and operating expenses on the football side for a very long time. Then as you add, poor appointments perpetuate that vicious circle we get ourselves. I noticed earlier you had some mindshare with me on the quality over quantity argument. There's another.

This is mostly all on Levy's watch as operations oversight.

I think we're mostly in agreement.

But I'm quite strong on him having to trust the people he puts in charge of these things. And on trusting the right people it's inevitable that there will be missteps and sometimes big one's over time.

 

[Grays_1890]

I was listening recently to a few Pleat videos on YT, seems to have been alot of interviews with his book launch, naturally asked about Levy and football in general ALOT, despite his exit he is very complimentary of Levy and talks alot about his support of managers and what they need. Confirms that Hitchens and Levy pushed Poch to make signings but he turned them down and said he was happy with the squad and the "harmony"

Point is there are probably truths behind the rumours, assumptions and ITKs that we either don't know or don't want to know.

Some very interesting insights on many of the videos, including what actually goes into making signings and why many break down

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I think we're mostly in agreement.

But I'm quite strong on him having to trust the people he puts in charge of these things. And on trusting the right people it's inevitable that there will be missteps and sometimes big one's over time.

That always has to be factored but quite often gets filed as 'putting people in place to shoulder the blame' or 'those people are irrelevant as the buck stops with the man at the top'

Of course, there is some truth in that, usually around bigger issues where the club has misstepped. But when it comes to chief of football, director of football, managers etc too right there should be performance expectations of these people, they are highly paid sports executives.

Id suspect now, that the day to day, and week to week decisions that drive the club forward are virtually all taken by Ange Lange and Munn.

 

[Bishop]

That always has to be factored but quite often gets filed as 'putting people in place to shoulder the blame' or 'those people are irrelevant as the buck stops with the man at the top'

Of course, there is some truth in that, usually around bigger issues where the club has misstepped. But when it comes to chief of football, director of football, managers etc too right there should be performance expectations of these people, they are highly paid sports executives.

Id suspect now, that the day to day, and week to week decisions that drive the club forward are virtually all taken by Ange Lange and Munn.

Conversely if Lange and Munn run a tight ship that leads to progress and ultimately success then Levy will rightly get the credit for putting those people in place. What I find amusing as a discussion is the teflon nature of his support in our fan base. Those fans only want to credit him with success (which is fair) but never the negatives and I'm sorry but that's just not how the world works. I'll give him the credit and the corn equally.

 

[Grays_1890]

Conversely if Lange and Munn run a tight ship that leads to progress and ultimately success then Levy will rightly get the credit for putting those people in place. What I find amusing as a discussion is the teflon nature of his support in our fan base. Those fans only want to credit him with success (which is fair) but never the negatives and I'm sorry but that's just not how the world works. I'll give him the credit and the corn equally.

Where is that though? I don't know a single poster on this forum who believes that

 

[Lilbaz]

Out of interest, why do you want new owners?

What is very clear in my mind, Levy has ridden this football money train brilliantly. His own wealth has transformed his £30m into a £1b based on our Sky subscriptions, season tickets, merchandise etc. There were huge periods of our club's history where that wasn't possible for a chairman.

The quid pro quo is that whilst Levy gets rich, we get the ultimate prize.....trophies. Daniel sits on both sides of that fence as he wants them as badly as we do.

I actually don't want him gone, but do want him upstairs rather than on the shop floor.

Because I want the fear of failure gone. I would like someone that could make our debt disappear. So when we go for players, we don't go for the safe option. We go for the likes of wirtz etc...

I don't want the game to become who has the richest owners wins. I want it sustainable. But that is difficult.

 

[Muttley]

Because I want the fear of failure gone. I would like someone that could make our debt disappear. So when we go for players, we don't go for the safe option. We go for the likes of wirtz etc...

I don't want the game to become who has the richest owners wins. I want it sustainable. But that is difficult.

That's interesting. New owners who clear the debt and release £80m a year (guess) of running costs tied into our debts which elevates us to a new level. Then run on a sustainable model but in a higher gear.

Didn't Arsenal achieve that a few years back though? They've had a rough ride.

I think my biggest fear is getting the next Randy Lerner rather than a John Henry.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Maddison and perisic both on £170k a week when we signed them. Not a small amount.

Also we pay large performance bonuses.

As do most teams.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Don't know abbout now but we used to psy the biggest bonuses in the prem.

The minutes of the meeting read: "Peter Haine mentioned the bonus payments, also. It was felt the bonus structure and incentives should also be considered when discussing players wages as they comprised a significant part of the monies and are the most generous of any club in the Premier League."

Daniel Levy reveals Spurs wage bonuses which help keep Harry Kane & co

Much is made of Tottenham's wage structure but not the bonuses

www.football.london

it is easy to offer bonuses for things that are reasonably unlikely to be achieved.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Werner costs us £8m this year in wages and probably got a signing on fee for his troubles. There is no future financial commitment. Palace had sold Olise and therefore had no incentive to give us favourable payment terms on a £60m+ transfer fee (guess). They would have wanted a big chunk of that in this financial year and I very much doubt we had the budget for it. I also have no clue whether the player would have wanted to join either. I'd like to think so.

I'm sure we'd all prefer Eze over Werner in this squad, but was that scenario even possible?

Typically wage and signing on bonus are batched up together to create the headline ‘wage’ figure.

 

[parklane1]

I have been around for a long time and during that time i have seen supporters at most [ if not all] clubs slag the owners,chairman etc when ever they do not get what they want [ be that sucess or new player signings etc]. I have never met a fan of any club who thinks their chairman is not brick [ at times] its what fans do after all.

Has Levy made mistakes, of course he has [ just like most chairman have done] but i still will support him. I get there are fans who think he is crap but some of the vitriol he gets from some is way over the top [imo] and the guy who started a pertition last season about wanting Levy out and asking for supporters who felt like him [ expecting to get big numbers of folks signing it was really shown up when only a COUPLE of thousand did so.

 

[DubSpur]

Conversely if Lange and Munn run a tight ship that leads to progress and ultimately success then Levy will rightly get the credit for putting those people in place. What I find amusing as a discussion is the teflon nature of his support in our fan base. Those fans only want to credit him with success (which is fair) but never the negatives and I'm sorry but that's just not how the world works. I'll give him the credit and the corn equally.

There's also the opposite of that, certain fans only to attribute the negatives to him and all the positives are despite him and due to someone else.

 

[Grays_1890]

 

[Lilbaz]

That's interesting. New owners who clear the debt and release £80m a year (guess) of running costs tied into our debts which elevates us to a new level. Then run on a sustainable model but in a higher gear.

Didn't Arsenal achieve that a few years back though? They've had a rough ride.

I think my biggest fear is getting the next Randy Lerner rather than a John Henry.

Arsenal, liverpool and to a lesser extent utd live a more sustainable level. Giant clubs with a lot of cl money that helped make them sustainable though.

Cl mkney is another thing that i'd like fixed. Skews the game.

 

[Muttley]

Arsenal, liverpool and to a lesser extent utd live a more sustainable level. Giant clubs with a lot of cl money that helped make them sustainable though.

Cl mkney is another thing that i'd like fixed. Skews the game.

I was told once that the average UEFA salary is 150k euros and that only about 50% of the money that UEFA collects in their annual competitions makes it way back to the participating clubs.

There could be even more CL monies back to the clubs, if UEFA weren't a bunch of crooks.

 

[Lilbaz]

I was told once that the average UEFA salary is 150k euros and that only about 50% of the money that UEFA collects in their annual competitions makes it way back to the participating clubs.

There could be even more CL monies back to the clubs, if UEFA weren't a bunch of crooks.

Half should have gone to the fa's to distribute. Yes there would have been wastage and corruption. But you would have been less likely to create mega clubs that dominate their domestic leagues.

Then complain their domestic leagues aren't competitive enough and want a super league.

 

[Bishop]

Where is that though? I don't know a single poster on this forum who believes that

You're not looking closely enough. Whenever these discussions come up a number of excuses are made as to why it can't be down to the corporate structure he has instituted. Which all meh to me, I'm all for accountability which means you get the credit for the successes and the failures.

 

[Grays_1890]

You're not looking closely enough. Whenever these discussions come up a number of excuses are made as to why it can't be down to the corporate structure he has instituted. Which all meh to me, I'm all for accountability which means you get the credit for the successes and the failures.

I think most I see always say its a balance, they can be blamed for alot but not all the ills of this club. I think thats the truth too TBH

 

[Raziel]

You're not looking closely enough. Whenever these discussions come up a number of excuses are made as to why it can't be down to the corporate structure he has instituted. Which all meh to me, I'm all for accountability which means you get the credit for the successes and the failures.

That is the way it should be, the question (for reasonable folks, not rage/clickbait) is
- What the balance of success/failure look like overall?
- What are the alternatives?

 

[Bishop]

That is the way it should be, the question (for reasonable folks, not rage/clickbait) is
- What the balance of success/failure look like overall?
- What are the alternatives?

Those are good questions and I imagine everyone has their conditions as to how that balance looks. It's that same old cliche where I think the club has done well off the pitch, but scored multiple own goals and missed opportunities for progress on the pitch and progress is literally the only thing I want, not even directly trophies (continued progress will eventually lead to success).

I give credit and appreciate the good work in terms of the current development of the club structure, this is absolutely a positive in my eyes, ie. the approach we have made with signings largely since Paratici joined etc but we have to admit that all the good work that is being done now is to repair the damage done previously.

My skepticism of ENIC goes a long way back, specifically back to the 10/11 season. Which is kind of long and boring and in the past now, but my real critique starts from that era as the model we have we have followed over the years has never really been the problem, it's the application of that model that has befuddle me and where the debate about 'not being a football man" has rung accurate for me.

So I don't so much argue for alternatives although the obvious ones exist, what I have always wanted was to follow our model and apply it well and and more boldly, for too many years I haven't felt that was the case.