Daniel Levy - Chairman

[ricky2tricky4city]

Just seems a bit naive to think it’s eventually going to work when it hasn’t for 20+ years. Maybe you are the most patient person in the world would you be happy with being what we are now and what we have been for the the last 10-15 years even if we don’t win anything? Let’s say the next 10 years bring zero trophies.

I think it's the 'being close' that's the problem.

Millions of football fans are in our boat. ie not getting over the line. But the difference is we ARE close, but with some massive barriers in the way. That's the frustration. Arsenal have maybe been step perfect the last 2-3 years and it's quite possible they will come to the end of this cycle with not getting over the line?.

It just shows how much has to come together.

 

[Batspur]

That's not true. Chelsea were prepared to sell him to Spurs.

The price we could've got Grealish for at the very start of the window was actually £20 million. The player wanted to come, Pochettino really wanted him (he saw him as an Eriksen replacement) and the player's agent was really trying to make the deal happen. We were also interested in Maddison and passed over him to instead go for Grealish. Leicester then nipped in and signed Maddison (for the same sort of money that Villa wanted (needed at the time!) for Grealish, while we then spent over a month lowballing Villa until they eventually attracted new owners and no longer needed any money.

What i meant was Chelsea had a price and if we met it we could have signed him but they werent prepared to play ‘business’ with Levy.

 

[metalgear]

the only thing working for us now is the recruitment team and they have done reasonably well getting rid of players.
unfortunately the balance tilted far too much towards youth and not enough experience in the last window, and did not address some obvious gaps - fast CB, maddison cover - which were learning points from last season.
why ange opted to keep spence but not use him is another strange one.

 

[Bullet]

the only thing working for us now is the recruitment team and they have done reasonably well getting rid of players.
unfortunately the balance tilted far too much towards youth and not enough experience in the last window, and did not address some obvious gaps - fast CB, maddison cover - which were learning points from last season.
why ange opted to keep spence but not use him is another strange one.

Clearly the sweet spot is finding good value players, who do have a couple of years of experience, and are inexpensive for whatever reason.
I.e. not only buying "pretty damn expensive and loads of potential but extremely young" or "top whack" but finding value in the global markets.

 

[Bullet]

We don't. Its easy to confirm by just looking at the wage bills of the various clubs. Our wage bill is £80m a year less than the club one position above our own in the wages list. City's wage bill (at the top of the list) is £172m a year more than our own or to put it another way thats 22 players on 150k per week they spend over us.

We pay managers well but usually not the absolute highest.

For visibility, from the Swissramble link you and Bedfordspurs used:
MNC 423
CHE 404
LIV 373
MNU 331
*TOT 251*
ARS 235
LEI 206
AST 194
NEW 187
EVE 159
Note that these amounts will be heavily dependent on bonuses e.g. if Spurs did really well in the CL/cups/league and ARS bombed out of Europe/cups/league on day 1, it would make big differences to those figures

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I’d say we started to turn the corner under Jol. We became a consistent team under Redknapp and real challengers under Poch.

I guess the question is how long do people accept being at this level of being close but not close enough? Interesting that people want to dispense with players and managers after a year/2 years/3 years but Levy gets an indefinite stay. Feels like people would be happy to never see us win anything ever again as long as we are competing which I really don’t understand, you only live once.

I loved it under Martin Jol
He achieved things that were a pipe dream considering our most recent history
fudging great bloke too

 

[Jurgen the German]

I don't think any fan would be happy with us not winning anything ever again.

As long as there's good signs of progress I'm happy enough with who are in charge. There have been mistakes, as there always are. But now we seem to be moving in a good direction again.

It’s been said before that not many big companies keep the same person in charge for 20+ years. The average tenure of a CEO is between 5-10 and about 8 for Fortune 500 companies. Levy is already well beyond that as we know, yes I know his CEO isn’t his job title but he effectively runs the club. Even just to freshen it up, a change wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I think it's the 'being close' that's the problem.

Millions of football fans are in our boat. ie not getting over the line. But the difference is we ARE close, but with some massive barriers in the way. That's the frustration. Arsenal have maybe been step perfect the last 2-3 years and it's quite possible they will come to the end of this cycle with not getting over the line?.

It just shows how much has to come together.

No argument that it’s tough to win. I said in my post to @braineclipse that heads of companies don’t typically last as long as Levy has and whilst it’s not unheard of, he has gone well beyond the tenure of a person who sits at the top of a company.

 

[Batspur]

But not playing the rle DM that we need. I'm all for signing the players the manager wants but this one wouldn't have solved the positionally issue we have at the base of midfield.

Gallagher is playing the defensive mf for England tonight. He looks very comfortable. As he should as its his natural role.

 

[SkipRat]

I loved it under Martin Jol
He achieved things that were a pipe dream considering our most recent history
fudging great bloke too

Just a shame he flirted with Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Killing his position with us.

I loved him too... He just felt like the chill mafia... Cool, clam, and collected...

Quality guy.

 

[SkipRat]

Gallagher is playing the defensive mf for England tonight. He looks very comfortable. As he should as its his natural role.

Are England playing tonight?

 

[Batspur]

Are England playing tonight?

3rd 20/twenty in St Lucia but its delayed atm

 

[metalgear]

For visibility, from the Swissramble link you and Bedfordspurs used:
MNC 423
CHE 404
LIV 373
MNU 331
*TOT 251*
ARS 235
LEI 206
AST 194
NEW 187
EVE 159
Note that these amounts will be heavily dependent on bonuses e.g. if Spurs did really well in the CL/cups/league and ARS bombed out of Europe/cups/league on day 1, it would make big differences to those figures

chelsea owners are admirable:
- spend a lot of money on the club
- still continuing to spend on the best young players globally without a new stadium
- prioritize winning and building a new stadium before realising investment gains

done all that with a chairman who is just learning about playing football with feet.

even if you are an optimist, you have to imagine a scenario whereby chelsea wins a trophy and builds a new stadium before we win anything.

 

[braineclipse]

the only thing working for us now is the recruitment team and they have done reasonably well getting rid of players.
unfortunately the balance tilted far too much towards youth and not enough experience in the last window, and did not address some obvious gaps - fast CB, maddison cover - which were learning points from last season.
why ange opted to keep spence but not use him is another strange one.

Our recruitment team working well is vital to our medium and long term success. Fully agreed that this is very important and good to see.

I think it's too early to judge if the balance tipped too far towards youth this summer.

We have gaps in our squad. Had those gaps been filled it would have had to be at the expense of not filling some of the gaps we did fill.

Clearly the sweet spot is finding good value players, who do have a couple of years of experience, and are inexpensive for whatever reason.
I.e. not only buying "pretty damn expensive and loads of potential but extremely young" or "top whack" but finding value in the global markets.

I agree. Paratici seemed good at that. Arguably VdV and Vicario were also examples of that along with Werner.

Perhaps part of why we didn't do more of that is that we're struggling for HG players. I already think not having Spence registered for the EL is problematic, having multiple play in that category would be unfortunate.

 

[braineclipse]

It’s been said before that not many big companies keep the same person in charge for 20+ years. The average tenure of a CEO is between 5-10 and about 8 for Fortune 500 companies. Levy is already well beyond that as we know, yes I know his CEO isn’t his job title but he effectively runs the club. Even just to freshen it up, a change wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.

Been reported quite credibly that he's stepped away from the football side of things quite a bit. Getting a new director and DoF type in place.

For me that seems like the kind of thing that should freshen things up.

It's not like we're not spending money. And imo it's unlikely that it's Levy deciding who we sign. The footballing side is mostly run by someone else.

 

[braineclipse]

I think it's the 'being close' that's the problem.

Millions of football fans are in our boat. ie not getting over the line. But the difference is we ARE close, but with some massive barriers in the way. That's the frustration. Arsenal have maybe been step perfect the last 2-3 years and it's quite possible they will come to the end of this cycle with not getting over the line?.

It just shows how much has to come together.

The barriers in the PL are massive. Dortmund, Leverkusen and Leipzig can hope for Bayern to have an off year. Atletico can hope for Real and Barca to have an off year. In the PL there are so many big teams capable of having great seasons, massively unlikely for all of them to have an off year.

Also makes it harder in the cups.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine tried buying success and is so far only an example of that being possible, but only up to a point.

I agree that a lot of things have to come together. That's part of why I like our focus on younger players in recent years. Our best chance of success will be a handful of them really stepping up to become great players - better players than we could realistically have bought. As happened under Pochettino.

But that also means that as we focus on youth there will be gaps in the squad, there will be issues short term. We will lack experience and leadership for a while.

I'm really happy to see Ange identify leadership and mentality as areas he's focused on. Our young squad needs to develop in those areas, it's part of what has to come together. It's part of the process when trying to build a successful team this way. But in that there will be periods of struggle.

We're in one now and time will tell if and how we get out the other side.

Meanwhile we're building and developing a squad that will probably be in a much stronger position than it was when Ange took over whenever it is that Ange leaves. That's a very good thing.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I don't understand this last sentence - everything we do will be 'set out by conditions defined' by the owners/chairman, same as with every other club. Do you think transfer departments at other clubs act independently or something?

Last 2 summer windows have seen us buy Maddison & Solanke - 2 prem proven players at or close to their peak. Prior to that we bought Richarlson another PL player at or close to his peak. We buy a mix, same as others and we also tend to err towards potential same as with most other clubs too.

Well look at the three summers; that Richarlison (i.e. summer 2022) was very stimulating in that we seemed to buy players every other week. In the end there wasn't really anyone bought that was really someone to relegate any of the starters to the bench immediately. It was mostly good squad padding and mostly supported the manager with Perisic being a clear example - until we got to Spence when things became all too familiar, remember how long that deal took compared to the others? A club buy...Hmm..
We paid higher wages in that summer for sure, but again did we really buy anyone and think, "yeah we are pushing to get closer to Liverpool and Emirates Marketing Project"? Not really. And we knew how key our wing-backs were for Conte but yet didn't buy a much needed option for the right (i.e. one the manager wanted, not a club one). For me, i would have been OK for Spurs/Levy to buy Spence if we'd also bought a rwb that Conte DID ask for.

Then last summer we knew Kane money was on the way but still took a lot of time to get MVDV in (that same old, player joins a week before the season starts and misses out on training time to get up to speed (ha!) with the coach's methods, teammates etc. )
We sold Sanchez without getting another RCB knowing he was going. Same old, same old. Maddison was indeed a first teamer, but he'd just been bought from a lower PL team that had got relegated. Nothing wowing in the profile, just like when we bought Hojbjerg: decent, but not someone you thought "wow we have beaten quite a few rivals to get him".
Johnson, another decent buy, but again, not that "damn" or "wow" factor.

Notice we didn't buy a number 9 to replace Kane, who we knew was leaving. Same old, same old, just like when Berbatov left and we got Frazer Campbell (only this time we didn't buy anyone). Ok, a year later we bought Solanke. I'm happy enough with him so far, but again, he's come from Bournemouth, who are not much different these days in profile from Leicester. It wasn't someone in the profile of Osimhen for example. Not saying Osimhen would work with us or not, but i'm using him as an example of a player that if we'd bought, we (and many PL onlookers) would have sat up and taken notice.

Then this summer, after a season when we finished 5th (and let's be honest we really bottled 4th last season) we knew we needed LB and LCB cover, but nothing. At least we bought a number 9 finally, but again who else was bought that was a clear first teamer? Again, i think people are putting their head in the sand if they honestly thought the buys we made in summer 2024 would have been how they'd expect the club to buy if they'd been asked just after the 2023-24 had finished.
We've been fed a bit of stuff about "not wanting to block this or that youth player" as to why we didn't sign clear re-reinforcements in CM (especially a DM and especially given Hojbjerg moved on), on the wings and LB/LCB.
Ok then, which youth player can fill in for Udogie (I mean properly, i don't mean shoe-horning Spence)? Which youth player comes in when MVDV inevitably gets injured? Dragusin was really bought as Romero rotation given how right-footed he is let aone the pace he doesn't have. Odebert looks decent, but when you're hearing of players like Neto or Eze and then instead buy him it is a very Jol era anti-climax. Why not buy an Eze, Neto AND Odebert? The stadium money you'd think would allow for that now - if the club wants to actually act differently.

As i say, the last summer could easily have been any summer we've seen before the stadium rebuild and was same-old, same-old. It doesn't smack of much ambition, just happy to float along nicely, maybe in the knowledge that 5th place will likely get CL this year so why bother aiming much higher than that.
As i say, stadium money has increased, we are up the league financial tables etc but we have not changed how we operate in terms of footballing ambition. To me that's because the owners are still the same ones we've had in that time..

 

[Gutter Boy]

Well look at the three summers; that Richarlison (i.e. summer 2022) was very stimulating in that we seemed to buy players every other week. In the end there wasn't really anyone bought that was really someone to relegate any of the starters to the bench immediately. It was mostly good squad padding and mostly supported the manager with Perisic being a clear example - until we got to Spence when things became all too familiar, remember how long that deal took compared to the others? A club buy...Hmm..
We paid higher wages in that summer for sure, but again did we really buy anyone and think, "yeah we are pushing to get closer to Liverpool and Emirates Marketing Project"? Not really. And we knew how key our wing-backs were for Conte but yet didn't buy a much needed option for the right (i.e. one the manager wanted, not a club one). For me, i would have been OK for Spurs/Levy to buy Spence if we'd also bought a rwb that Conte DID ask for.

Then last summer we knew Kane money was on the way but still took a lot of time to get MVDV in (that same old, player joins a week before the season starts and misses out on training time to get up to speed (ha!) with the coach's methods, teammates etc. )
We sold Sanchez without getting another RCB knowing he was going. Same old, same old. Maddison was indeed a first teamer, but he'd just been bought from a lower PL team that had got relegated. Nothing wowing in the profile, just like when we bought Hojbjerg: decent, but not someone you thought "wow we have beaten quite a few rivals to get him".
Johnson, another decent buy, but again, not that "damn" or "wow" factor.

Notice we didn't buy a number 9 to replace Kane, who we knew was leaving. Same old, same old, just like when Berbatov left and we got Frazer Campbell (only this time we didn't buy anyone). Ok, a year later we bought Solanke. I'm happy enough with him so far, but again, he's come from Bournemouth, who are not much different these days in profile from Leicester. It wasn't someone in the profile of Osimhen for example. Not saying Osimhen would work with us or not, but i'm using him as an example of a player that if we'd bought, we (and many PL onlookers) would have sat up and taken notice.

Then this summer, after a season when we finished 5th (and let's be honest we really bottled 4th last season) we knew we needed LB and LCB cover, but nothing. At least we bought a number 9 finally, but again who else was bought that was a clear first teamer? Again, i think people are putting their head in the sand if they honestly thought the buys we made in summer 2024 would have been how they'd expect the club to buy if they'd been asked just after the 2023-24 had finished.
We've been fed a bit of stuff about "not wanting to block this or that youth player" as to why we didn't sign clear re-reinforcements in CM (especially a DM and especially given Hojbjerg moved on), on the wings and LB/LCB.
Ok then, which youth player can fill in for Udogie (I mean properly, i don't mean shoe-horning Spence)? Which youth player comes in when MVDV inevitably gets injured? Dragusin was really bought as Romero rotation given how right-footed he is let aone the pace he doesn't have. Odebert looks decent, but when you're hearing of players like Neto or Eze and then instead buy him it is a very Jol era anti-climax. Why not buy an Eze, Neto AND Odebert? The stadium money you'd think would allow for that now - if the club wants to actually act differently.

As i say, the last summer could easily have been any summer we've seen before the stadium rebuild and was same-old, same-old. It doesn't smack of much ambition, just happy to float along nicely, maybe in the knowledge that 5th place will likely get CL this year so why bother aiming much higher than that.
As i say, stadium money has increased, we are up the league financial tables etc but we have not changed how we operate in terms of footballing ambition. To me that's because the owners are still the same ones we've had in that time..

I think we always knew Davies would be second LCB this season, while we waited for Vuskovic to be old enough to move.

LB I'm fairly sure we were getting Locko from Brest till he did his achilles 2 weeks before deadline day.

Remember also that we are bound by the club trained issue in terms of bringing more players in. We can't even name Spence and Regulion in our Europa squad. It's why we now need to get Cirkin in above anyone else.

 

[billyiddo]

Well look at the three summers; that Richarlison (i.e. summer 2022) was very stimulating in that we seemed to buy players every other week. In the end there wasn't really anyone bought that was really someone to relegate any of the starters to the bench immediately. It was mostly good squad padding and mostly supported the manager with Perisic being a clear example - until we got to Spence when things became all too familiar, remember how long that deal took compared to the others? A club buy...Hmm..
We paid higher wages in that summer for sure, but again did we really buy anyone and think, "yeah we are pushing to get closer to Liverpool and Emirates Marketing Project"? Not really. And we knew how key our wing-backs were for Conte but yet didn't buy a much needed option for the right (i.e. one the manager wanted, not a club one). For me, i would have been OK for Spurs/Levy to buy Spence if we'd also bought a rwb that Conte DID ask for.

Then last summer we knew Kane money was on the way but still took a lot of time to get MVDV in (that same old, player joins a week before the season starts and misses out on training time to get up to speed (ha!) with the coach's methods, teammates etc. )
We sold Sanchez without getting another RCB knowing he was going. Same old, same old. Maddison was indeed a first teamer, but he'd just been bought from a lower PL team that had got relegated. Nothing wowing in the profile, just like when we bought Hojbjerg: decent, but not someone you thought "wow we have beaten quite a few rivals to get him".
Johnson, another decent buy, but again, not that "damn" or "wow" factor.

Notice we didn't buy a number 9 to replace Kane, who we knew was leaving. Same old, same old, just like when Berbatov left and we got Frazer Campbell (only this time we didn't buy anyone). Ok, a year later we bought Solanke. I'm happy enough with him so far, but again, he's come from Bournemouth, who are not much different these days in profile from Leicester. It wasn't someone in the profile of Osimhen for example. Not saying Osimhen would work with us or not, but i'm using him as an example of a player that if we'd bought, we (and many PL onlookers) would have sat up and taken notice.

Then this summer, after a season when we finished 5th (and let's be honest we really bottled 4th last season) we knew we needed LB and LCB cover, but nothing. At least we bought a number 9 finally, but again who else was bought that was a clear first teamer? Again, i think people are putting their head in the sand if they honestly thought the buys we made in summer 2024 would have been how they'd expect the club to buy if they'd been asked just after the 2023-24 had finished.
We've been fed a bit of stuff about "not wanting to block this or that youth player" as to why we didn't sign clear re-reinforcements in CM (especially a DM and especially given Hojbjerg moved on), on the wings and LB/LCB.
Ok then, which youth player can fill in for Udogie (I mean properly, i don't mean shoe-horning Spence)? Which youth player comes in when MVDV inevitably gets injured? Dragusin was really bought as Romero rotation given how right-footed he is let aone the pace he doesn't have. Odebert looks decent, but when you're hearing of players like Neto or Eze and then instead buy him it is a very Jol era anti-climax. Why not buy an Eze, Neto AND Odebert? The stadium money you'd think would allow for that now - if the club wants to actually act differently.

As i say, the last summer could easily have been any summer we've seen before the stadium rebuild and was same-old, same-old. It doesn't smack of much ambition, just happy to float along nicely, maybe in the knowledge that 5th place will likely get CL this year so why bother aiming much higher than that.
As i say, stadium money has increased, we are up the league financial tables etc but we have not changed how we operate in terms of footballing ambition. To me that's because the owners are still the same ones we've had in that time..

I could do a similar appraisal for any transfer window for any club, very easy to point out what hasn't been done as there's always work left to do at the end of a window and teams/squads are never complete.

We're 2 seasons in to the Lange & Co transfer department rebuild of the squad (rebuild also includes shifting out the deadwood, of which there wss/is a considerable amount) - the complaints above really do scream of expecting it all to be over & done with after a couple of windows with minimal fuss, without having any consideration for what it entails tbqh

 

[glorygloryeze]

I could do a similar appraisal for any transfer window for any club, very easy to point out what hasn't been done as there's always work left to do at the end of a window and teams/squads are never complete.

I appreciate that no window can be 100%, but i've been watching how we operate and how our transfer windows turn out for years and i barely see any changes since all this extra money has been coming in. We rebuilt the stadium to change how we operated, or so we were told...