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Daniel Levy - Chairman

Finney Is Back said:
I'm not using the fact he is managing in a 5th rate league as my evidence that AVB isn't an elite manager. I'm using what I saw with my own eyes when we were unfortunate enough to be managed by him.
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That's fair enough - if you want to take a subjective opinion that's wrong, you can!
 
Jurgen the German said:
I don’t know anyone who thinks AVB is an elite coach. He’s not even on Poch’s level and Poch hasn’t won a single trophy.

Elite managers don’t fail at multiple clubs. They manage at big clubs and are successful
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He's not an elite manager, but he's a very good one. We underrated him as a fanbase - he managed us at a time of massive change in terms of the playing staff, and he didn't get any of his first choice replacements for the players that left.

I think his reign would have been vastly more successful if we had gotten Joao Moutinho in during the summer of 2012, instead of Clint Dempsey. We lost world-class distributors in Modric and Van Der Vaart, and needed a distributor to compensate - we didn't get him. Moutinho would have been AVB's 'voice' on the pitch - he was AVB's metronome at Porto, and would have been absolutely key to implementing his 4-3-3 (and switching us away from Harry's wonky 4-4-1-1).

In the end, we had to make do with a functional midfield with Dembele (who was never a good distributor), Parker, Hudd, Sandro, Sigurdsson and Livermore. None of whom were particularly good at moving the ball quickly. Hence the stodgy football he played in 12-13. I don't think it had much to do with his tactical preferences, because he wanted to play a quick, possession-based 4-3-3 with a high back line. But the tempo was never there, because the players weren't.

Not too much to say about 13-14. Didn't get any of his first choices (Not Villa, not Willian, not Benteke), and the terrible dressing room and the loss of Bale brought him down. The same dressing room Poch declared a disaster zone and cleaned out quicker than shelves at Greggs when Fat Frank's about.

He's not better than Poch, because he didn't have the flexibility to overcome not getting his targets - which was a fact of life under Levy. But he's a good coach, and will be a good coach going forward (he's younger than Poch, lest we forget - by a *long* way).
 
DubaiSpur said:
He's not an elite manager, but he's a very good one. We underrated him as a fanbase - he managed us at a time of massive change in terms of the playing staff, and he didn't get any of his first choice replacements for the players that left.

I think his reign would have been vastly more successful if we had gotten Joao Moutinho in during the summer of 2012, instead of Clint Dempsey. We lost world-class distributors in Modric and Van Der Vaart, and needed a distributor to compensate - we didn't get him. Moutinho would have been AVB's 'voice' on the pitch - he was AVB's metronome at Porto, and would have been absolutely key to implementing his 4-3-3 (and switching us away from Harry's wonky 4-4-1-1).

In the end, we had to make do with a functional midfield with Dembele (who was never a good distributor), Parker, Hudd, Sandro, Sigurdsson and Livermore. None of whom were particularly good at moving the ball quickly. Hence the stodgy football he played in 12-13. I don't think it had much to do with his tactical preferences, because he wanted to play a quick, possession-based 4-3-3 with a high back line. But the tempo was never there, because the players weren't.

Not too much to say about 13-14. Didn't get any of his first choices (Not Villa, not Willian, not Benteke), and the terrible dressing room and the loss of Bale bought him down. The same dressing room Poch declared a disaster zone and cleaned out quicker than shelves at Greggs when Fat Frank's about.

He's not better than Poch, because he didn't have the flexibility to overcome not getting his targets - which was a fact of life under Levy. But he's a good coach, and will be a good coach going forward (he's younger than Poch, lest we forget - by a *long* way).
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Problem is those comments highlight he wanted players out of our reach
That’s easy management and almost Pep style... buy better than you can afford and hope it works

the players didn’t like him (didn’t hate him like the Spanish dictator though)

you need players to respect you first and fore most and he struggled there
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Problem is those comments highlight he wanted players out of our reach
That’s easy management and almost Pep style... buy better than you can afford and hope it works

the players didn’t like him (didn’t hate him like the Spanish dictator though)

you need players to respect you first and fore most and he struggled there
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I don't think any of the players he wanted were out of our reach, per se - we did try to get them, and some of them were close. Willian was supposed to tour the training ground before Chelsea signed him instead, and Moutinho was with his agent negotiating with us up until the deadline. In both cases, we just delayed for too long, spent too long haggling over pennies, and lost them both.

Benteke and Villa as well - Villa would end up going to Atletico, Benteke to Liverpool (who weren't better than us back in 2013). Same story with Hulk, incidentally, who went to Zenit the season we wanted him. None of them went to clubs that were out of our reach back then.

I think it's more that he really got none of his first choices over two years, and that definitely has an impact, whether or not you're a Pep-style chequebook manager. You can only go so far with second choices.

I do agree about the dressing room, though - players didn't seem to respect him, and I wonder if that was because of his youth (Friedel was older than he was), or his weird super-tactical approach.
 
DubaiSpur said:
I do agree about the dressing room, though - players didn't seem to respect him, and I wonder if that was because of his youth (Friedel was older than he was), or his weird super-tactical approach.
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Perhaps because AVB dug in deeper and deeper until he wouldn't come out of his office or go on the training ground.
 
Bullet said:
Perhaps because AVB dug in deeper and deeper until he wouldn't come out of his office or go on the training ground.
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I met AvB with baldini when we were signing capoue

he was really Nice and chatty

my wife was pregnant and he told us to name the child after him... so I said what if it’s a girl. He said easy....Andrea
 
Bullet said:
Perhaps because AVB dug in deeper and deeper until he wouldn't come out of his office or go on the training ground.
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To be honest, I wonder if all managers do that towards the end. Poch apparently did that. Mourinho apparently did that at United near the end - wouldn't leave the office.

You wouldn't accuse either of being scared - of anything. So if that's what brought him down, it's not exactly unique to AVB.
 
Can you be schooled to a 2-1 victory away from home though?

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DubaiSpur said:
He's not an elite manager, but he's a very good one. We underrated him as a fanbase - he managed us at a time of massive change in terms of the playing staff, and he didn't get any of his first choice replacements for the players that left.

I think his reign would have been vastly more successful if we had gotten Joao Moutinho in during the summer of 2012, instead of Clint Dempsey. We lost world-class distributors in Modric and Van Der Vaart, and needed a distributor to compensate - we didn't get him. Moutinho would have been AVB's 'voice' on the pitch - he was AVB's metronome at Porto, and would have been absolutely key to implementing his 4-3-3 (and switching us away from Harry's wonky 4-4-1-1).

In the end, we had to make do with a functional midfield with Dembele (who was never a good distributor), Parker, Hudd, Sandro, Sigurdsson and Livermore. None of whom were particularly good at moving the ball quickly. Hence the stodgy football he played in 12-13. I don't think it had much to do with his tactical preferences, because he wanted to play a quick, possession-based 4-3-3 with a high back line. But the tempo was never there, because the players weren't.

Not too much to say about 13-14. Didn't get any of his first choices (Not Villa, not Willian, not Benteke), and the terrible dressing room and the loss of Bale bought him down. The same dressing room Poch declared a disaster zone and cleaned out quicker than shelves at Greggs when Fat Frank's about.

He's not better than Poch, because he didn't have the flexibility to overcome not getting his targets - which was a fact of life under Levy. But he's a good coach, and will be a good coach going forward (he's younger than Poch, lest we forget - by a *long* way).
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I accept he lost King and Modric but he didn’t lose VDV. He told him he would have to fight for his place and wouldn’t be first choice after being one of our better players in his time at the club. He finished 5th with arguably the 4th or 5th best squad so I’m not sure why some like to pretend what he achieved was some miracle. He plays a possession based, slow the play down type of game and relied on Bale to get us out of trouble in numerous games where it looked unlikely that anyone else would score.

Elite or even very good managers have sustained periods of success. People seem to be fixating on what he achieved at Porto in one season over 8 years ago. There are no results since that you can point to to back to the claim that he is a top manager.

Can he become a top manager? Sure why not, no one saw Klopp getting the better of Guardiola and challenging Emirates Marketing Project let alone overtaking them and being miles better. He is now considered the best manager in the world. Let’s actually see if AVB can achieve success and sustain it for more than one season though.
 
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