Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Are they keeping them open still though, rather than shutting them down completely? I.e. bring your own hip flasks and drugs?
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Coronavirus
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
Are they keeping them open still though, rather than shutting them down completely? I.e. bring your own hip flasks and drugs?
SteveAWOL
Chris Jones
Hopefully the UK’s vastly higher level of vaccination means our T Cell immunity provides much better protection from hospitalisation than South Africa’s reliance upon previous infection.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/14/south-africa-previous-infections-may-explain-omicron-hospitalisation-rate
High levels of previous exposure to three previous waves of coronavirus infection in South Africa may explain the relatively low levels of hospitalisation and severe disease in the current outbreak of the Omicron variant, rather than the variant itself being less virulent.
The suggestion was made by vaccine expert Shabir Mahdi of the University of the Witacoersrand, who has led vaccine trials in the country, and warned that South Africa’s experience of Omicron might not be a reliable indicator for how the Omicron outbreak unfolds in other countries.
Citing evidence of Omicron’s ability to evade antibody protection he suggested data was “congregating” that immunity from T cells might be driving protection against more severe disease.
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-12-1...evels-neutralising-antibodies-against-omicron
Researchers from the University of Oxford have analysed the impact of the Omicron COVID-19 variant of concern on one of the immune responses generated by vaccination.
Using blood samples from individuals who had previously received two doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca or Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines as part of the Com-COV study, and a live virus isolate, they demonstrate substantial decrease in neutralising titres – a measure of the level of neutralising antibodies generated in responses to vaccination against, or infection from, COVID-19.
The results, published on the pre-print server MedRxiv, indicate that the Omicron variant has the potential to drive a further wave of infections, including among those already vaccinated, although the researchers highlight that there is currently no evidence of increased potential to cause severe disease, hospitalisations or deaths in vaccinated populations.
Professor Teresa Lambe, Professor in Vaccinology at the University of Oxford, and an author on the paper, said:
‘Vaccination induces many arms of our immune system, including neutralising antibodies and T-cells. Real-world effectiveness data has shown us that vaccines continue to protect against severe disease with previous variants of concern. The best way to protect us going forward in this pandemic is by getting vaccines in arms.’
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/14/south-africa-previous-infections-may-explain-omicron-hospitalisation-rate
High levels of previous exposure to three previous waves of coronavirus infection in South Africa may explain the relatively low levels of hospitalisation and severe disease in the current outbreak of the Omicron variant, rather than the variant itself being less virulent.
The suggestion was made by vaccine expert Shabir Mahdi of the University of the Witacoersrand, who has led vaccine trials in the country, and warned that South Africa’s experience of Omicron might not be a reliable indicator for how the Omicron outbreak unfolds in other countries.
Citing evidence of Omicron’s ability to evade antibody protection he suggested data was “congregating” that immunity from T cells might be driving protection against more severe disease.
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-12-1...evels-neutralising-antibodies-against-omicron
Researchers from the University of Oxford have analysed the impact of the Omicron COVID-19 variant of concern on one of the immune responses generated by vaccination.
Using blood samples from individuals who had previously received two doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca or Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines as part of the Com-COV study, and a live virus isolate, they demonstrate substantial decrease in neutralising titres – a measure of the level of neutralising antibodies generated in responses to vaccination against, or infection from, COVID-19.
The results, published on the pre-print server MedRxiv, indicate that the Omicron variant has the potential to drive a further wave of infections, including among those already vaccinated, although the researchers highlight that there is currently no evidence of increased potential to cause severe disease, hospitalisations or deaths in vaccinated populations.
Professor Teresa Lambe, Professor in Vaccinology at the University of Oxford, and an author on the paper, said:
‘Vaccination induces many arms of our immune system, including neutralising antibodies and T-cells. Real-world effectiveness data has shown us that vaccines continue to protect against severe disease with previous variants of concern. The best way to protect us going forward in this pandemic is by getting vaccines in arms.’
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
I'm not sure South Africa's previous infections will necessarily be that much higher than ours. We must be up to about 50% now, once you combine the 10m positive tests, the correlated asymptomatic cases and the first wavers from before tests existed.
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
That's always been the case. You get a much broader coverage etc. But obviously its much risker to acquire, especially pre-vaccine days.
In some ways the sensible approach is to keep topping up protection with regular natural exposure after vaccine, rather than let everything wane whilst hiding away.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
But ultimately if it does spread like wild fire you will end up with an initial mix of those that are vulnerable being protected and those that are not vulnerable who catch it thus producing a natural immunity which might be a benefit.
Diamond Lights
Alan Hutton
Hopefully so, but then we have no idea of the natural immunity from all previous Covid variants as according to the data, they do not provide any immunity to Omicron, hence the re-infection concern from scientists. Maybe it's manageable reinfection, not hospitalised, maybe it's just as bad as getting covid for the first time, no idea right now i guess
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
I don't think anyone gets covid worse the second time around, I think it's always milder (unless I guess you've developed a new immuno deficiency in the meantime)
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
With everything being cancelled once again maybe we should think about having Xmas in the Summer every year
Would be far better anyhow
Would be far better anyhow
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
True, lets hope ey
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
Tory MP Miriam Cates highlights the "inevitable harms" from additional restrictions, including the increased risk of domestic violence from home working.
She argues mandatory masks also send a signal "to panic", with some schools already closing early for the holidays.
She opposes Covid passes, describing them as "discriminatory" and segregating people.
Cates says the measures reflect a "permanent change to the understanding of what liberty is in this country" as she calls for a return to a society of "freedom and responsibility".
In a pantomime-style performance, Tory MP Richard Drax lists the reasons he opposes the additional measures.
"Do we want new restrictions every time a new variant appears?" he asks.
No, is the response from many of his fellow MPs.
Do we want to see the hospitality and retail sector collapse because we're instilling the fear of GHod into their customers? No, is their response.
He finishes his speech by saying it is "time to put fear to one side, put our shoulders back and get on with our lives".
Tory MPs continue to line up against some of the measures and next up is Anthony Mangnall.
He says he will oppose the extension of mandatory masks, Covid passes and mandatory vaccination for NHS staff.
He argues the legislation on masks is "shoddy" and points out inconsistencies, such as colleagues being able to sing or eat together but not go to work.
Mangnall says there is also little evidence to show Covid passes work.
"We cannot continue to terrify people," he tells the Commons, saying he is "staggered" by how the government has used fear to try to persuade people in the past two weeks.
Conservative Derek Thomas says is worried that the NHS and government are too focused on Covid, rather than other "severe difficulties" many people are facing with their health.
The MP for St Ives says he believes the government's imposition of restrictions to fight the virus has caused people to miss out on treatment they need from the health service.
He asks: "How many more cancer patients will miss their diagnosis and treatment and lose their lives because we told them to protect the NHS?"
Thomas adds the government should reopen the emergency Nightingale hospitals to "deal with Omicron and protect the NHS".
He adds he will be supporting the government on booster jabs and testing, but will oppose all other measures.
Tory MP Greg Smith says he won't vote for the extension of mandatory masks, Covid passes or mandatory vaccination for NHS staff.
He argues the measures are a "slippery slope" and not without harm, including damage to the economy.
He also gives the example of people who may be unable to wear a mask or deaf people not being to lip read a mask-wearer.
Smith says the government should focus on the booster rollout and otherwise "give people their freedom back to choose".
Former minister Andrea Leadsom says she will not support compulsory vaccination for NHS staff, saying daily testing as an alternative would be a "practical and fair solution".
It would also avoid the risk of losing those NHS and care staff who are unwilling to be vaccinated, she adds.
On measures like Covid passes, she says the focus should be on persuading people to get vaccinated, rather than "criminalising" them.
She argues the measures being proposed by the government are "precautionary" and asks why the quality of life of citizens should be limited "just to be on the safe side".
She argues mandatory masks also send a signal "to panic", with some schools already closing early for the holidays.
She opposes Covid passes, describing them as "discriminatory" and segregating people.
Cates says the measures reflect a "permanent change to the understanding of what liberty is in this country" as she calls for a return to a society of "freedom and responsibility".
In a pantomime-style performance, Tory MP Richard Drax lists the reasons he opposes the additional measures.
"Do we want new restrictions every time a new variant appears?" he asks.
No, is the response from many of his fellow MPs.
Do we want to see the hospitality and retail sector collapse because we're instilling the fear of GHod into their customers? No, is their response.
He finishes his speech by saying it is "time to put fear to one side, put our shoulders back and get on with our lives".
Tory MPs continue to line up against some of the measures and next up is Anthony Mangnall.
He says he will oppose the extension of mandatory masks, Covid passes and mandatory vaccination for NHS staff.
He argues the legislation on masks is "shoddy" and points out inconsistencies, such as colleagues being able to sing or eat together but not go to work.
Mangnall says there is also little evidence to show Covid passes work.
"We cannot continue to terrify people," he tells the Commons, saying he is "staggered" by how the government has used fear to try to persuade people in the past two weeks.
Conservative Derek Thomas says is worried that the NHS and government are too focused on Covid, rather than other "severe difficulties" many people are facing with their health.
The MP for St Ives says he believes the government's imposition of restrictions to fight the virus has caused people to miss out on treatment they need from the health service.
He asks: "How many more cancer patients will miss their diagnosis and treatment and lose their lives because we told them to protect the NHS?"
Thomas adds the government should reopen the emergency Nightingale hospitals to "deal with Omicron and protect the NHS".
He adds he will be supporting the government on booster jabs and testing, but will oppose all other measures.
Tory MP Greg Smith says he won't vote for the extension of mandatory masks, Covid passes or mandatory vaccination for NHS staff.
He argues the measures are a "slippery slope" and not without harm, including damage to the economy.
He also gives the example of people who may be unable to wear a mask or deaf people not being to lip read a mask-wearer.
Smith says the government should focus on the booster rollout and otherwise "give people their freedom back to choose".
Former minister Andrea Leadsom says she will not support compulsory vaccination for NHS staff, saying daily testing as an alternative would be a "practical and fair solution".
It would also avoid the risk of losing those NHS and care staff who are unwilling to be vaccinated, she adds.
On measures like Covid passes, she says the focus should be on persuading people to get vaccinated, rather than "criminalising" them.
She argues the measures being proposed by the government are "precautionary" and asks why the quality of life of citizens should be limited "just to be on the safe side".
Hotshot-Tottenham
Edgar Davids
Especially if they’re Moderna selling to the UK.
Hotshot-Tottenham
Edgar Davids
Until another variant pops along because of the huge number of cases.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Surely the vaccine route although great as a drug on the effect is the wrong way as the only way and is being proven. You are never going to outpace the variants, we are a year in a two jabs are seen as not enough now so whats that say about the future? We will be playing catch up until we get a grasp like with flu but that will take 40+ years.
Surely the best way now is to use the jab as a treatment to suppress the effects but the only way to normality is a robust testing programme? You have covid stay home, you dont go out and have your life? The Jabs dont stop the spread as we know so even say thats enough is obvious not enough. Surely the key now is testing
Surely the best way now is to use the jab as a treatment to suppress the effects but the only way to normality is a robust testing programme? You have covid stay home, you dont go out and have your life? The Jabs dont stop the spread as we know so even say thats enough is obvious not enough. Surely the key now is testing
Hotshot-Tottenham
Edgar Davids
Hotshot-Tottenham
Edgar Davids
It could be if people would do it, but they won’t.
They’re too special to deign to wear a mask in a shop so there’s no way they’ll inconvenience themselves like that.
Mikey10
Jimmy Neighbour
The Denmark data doesn’t look promising.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
The point is that three jabs test positive you still have to stay home, so that alone proves that jabs are not the exclusive way out.
Its surely a testing regime
Diamond Lights
Alan Hutton
This is why it's so troublesome reading how 'mild' this variant is. The answer is the same each time, we do not have the data yet to say that!
SA has had several recent waves, a large proportion infected, a large amount unvaccinated and a younger average age that many westernised countries. All these factors play a part. Just because their wave has not hit them hard, does not mean this version is a MILD version.