Coronavirus

[Grays_1890]

They certainly know nothing about Australia, which is what we were talking about.

I have said the two cant be compared so lets be clear there. The UK is the UK we are beyond the Taiwan, Aus, NZ routes, I have said that however many times now.

If you fail to read the links to the several UK Drs crying out for balance, Drs with no agenda other than public health then I can not help.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Why do people think that more cancer appointments are going to be missed by letting the virus rip through society? Last time the NHS were not prepared - this time they are as long as we control the spread.

Also not all anti lockdowners are right wing nutjobs, but it seems all right wing nutjobs are anti lockdown.

 

[Grays_1890]

Eh?? @Legohamster and @Grays_1890 have posted lots of sources and stats saying the lockdowns are killing lots of people because of other knock-on effects aside from Covid; sources such as Cancer research groups...that's supposed to be Trump-like??

Because its like most threads in Random on here, people start using right wing versus left wing because then people cant start making false accusations. Its taken eight months I am shocked it didnt happen sooner

 

[glorygloryeze]

Messaging in Australia was stay home unless essential. I’m still yet to see any evidence of the lockdown killing more people than letting COVID do it’s thing would.

Plenty of evidence (and already posted here by several people) that in the UK at least lockdowns have had a lot of unintended consequences in terms of deaths, late diagnoses for other ailments/diseases.
When you can't just get a GP appointment without going through a lot of hoops it makes an already not great situation worse...remember men are much less likely than women to bother getting something medically checked and the health service being even more inaccessible has as i say made things that weren't great even worse

 

[glorygloryeze]

Why do people think that more cancer appointments are going to be missed by letting the virus rip through society? Last time the NHS were not prepared - this time they are as long as we control the spread.

Also not all anti lockdowners are right wing nutjobs, but it seems all right wing nutjobs are anti lockdown.

That's like someone posting "not all lockdowners are left wing nutjobs, but it seems all left wing nut jobs want lockdowns..."

Not very helpful, is it?

 

[Legohamster]

They certainly know nothing about Australia, which is what we were talking about.

So the Australian Institution of health is lying?

would you say they are in a better position on figures than even you?

Thanks, useful to have these posted. I don’t see where the 150k came from but perhaps you added things up? But the article is about screenings, not cancer patients so I think you’re making a bit much of it.

The key thing is this paragraph:



There was literally nothing stopping someone from seeking treatment during lockdown.

The fact that they could only find one person to interview for the article, and that she was waiting for elective surgery says a lot too. I’m not playing down Kerri Besanko‘s need for surgery, but if it’s her breast reconstruction vs keeping thousands of people a live then there’s not much of a choice.

There was a 30 per cent drop in mammograms nationally from January to June, with about 344,000 tests conducted compared to around 489,000 in the same period two years prior.

There were more than 364,000 cervical cancer tests between January and June this year, compared to almost 807,000 for that period in 2019, a drop of 45 per cent.


Using line of thought that one person isn’t for the greater good, how many deaths from other causes/job loses etc is a trade of for a covid death?

 

[AuroRaman]

Unfortunately that's what it is. It always has been.

It's acknowledgement of each others augment that is missing. Both arguments are valid BUT sadly both arguments can't be deployed to full effect without being detrimental to the other.

Whomever has to make those decisions has a thankless task, and yes, I even have sympathy for our own government (as people) to have to make those decisions. (Regardless of tinkle poor implementation).

And in the last few days if GG is a microcosm of the entrenchment on both sides, boy is it noisy and scathing (yep, just like Brexit) and really adds nothing except ill feeling, which in these times, is the last thing anyone needs.

The BLM thread has been quiet for a while. Might throw a hand grenade in there for fun.

 

[Legohamster]

I have said the two cant be compared so lets be clear there. The UK is the UK we are beyond the Taiwan, Aus, NZ routes, I have said that however many times now.

If you fail to read the links to the several UK Drs crying out for balance, Drs with no agenda other than public health then I can not help.

Same people calling for us to do a NZ / Australia whilst claiming you can’t do a sweden because it’s a different type of country.

Why do people think that more cancer appointments are going to be missed by letting the virus rip through society? Last time the NHS were not prepared - this time they are as long as we control the spread.

Also not all anti lockdowners are right wing nutjobs, but it seems all right wing nutjobs are anti lockdown.

who wants to “let it rip”

Is the World Health Organisation a Crew of right wing nut jobs?

 

[Grays_1890]

That's like someone posting "not all lockdowners are left wing nutjobs, but it seems all left wing nut jobs want lockdowns..."

Not very helpful, is it?

And its not actually factually true. But its easier to ignore the Drs saying we need to strike a better balance and that is not detrimental to Covid patients to say that despite what people are saying on here. The 18 week wait list for treatment for those referred has grown month on month in equal measures to now record numbers since records began in and out of lockdown. For those lists to start to reduce we are going have to see an NHS service that is reformed into a service it has never been even before Covid arrived let alone after a month lockdown. If Cancer Research UK are not lying (which was ridiculously suggested on here) then people are just ignoring facts about where this is potentially heading unless the plan changes.

 

[tommysvr]

Because its like most threads in Random on here, people start using right wing versus left wing because then people cant start making false accusations. Its taken eight months I am shocked it didnt happen sooner

fudge me dead, I said Farage being an anti-lockdowner is no surprise, because most right wing nut jobs think the same. You lot need to start fudging reading posts and not just replying to what you think someone said. It’s fudging tiring.

 

[tommysvr]

Plenty of evidence (and already posted here by several people) that in the UK at least lockdowns have had a lot of unintended consequences in terms of deaths, late diagnoses for other ailments/diseases.
When you can't just get a GP appointment without going through a lot of hoops it makes an already not great situation worse...remember men are much less likely than women to bother getting something medically checked and the health service being even more inaccessible has as i say made things that weren't great even worse

I’ve been posting in here for a few months and not seen any good evidence of that. Nor have I seen a plan. Someone said the plan was to track and trace like Korea and that’s as much of an answer I’ve got so far.

 

[tommysvr]

So the Australian Institution of health is lying?

would you say they are in a better position on figures than even you?






There was a 30 per cent drop in mammograms nationally from January to June, with about 344,000 tests conducted compared to around 489,000 in the same period two years prior.

There were more than 364,000 cervical cancer tests between January and June this year, compared to almost 807,000 for that period in 2019, a drop of 45 per cent.


Using line of thought that one person isn’t for the greater good, how many deaths from other causes/job loses etc is a trade of for a covid death?

Are you reading those numbers as deaths? That’s the only thing I can think you’re doing.

 

[tommysvr]

Is the World Health Organisation a Crew of right wing nut jobs?

This right wing stuff really winds you anti-lockdowners up, doesn’t it?

Sent from my Mac using the 5G Network

 

[Legohamster]

This right wing stuff really winds you anti-lockdowners up, doesn’t it?

Sent from my Mac using the 5G Network

LOL not really - just shows if you want to throw insults around you don’t really have much worth saying.

Are you reading those numbers as deaths? That’s the only thing I can think you’re doing.

where did I say deaths?


But another stat for you to ignore

https://twitter.com/x/status/1323562624307650560

https://twitter.com/x/status/1323565564493778950

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Messaging in Australia was stay home unless essential. I’m still yet to see any evidence of the lockdown killing more people than letting COVID do it’s thing would.

Simply one is visible and the other not so. All evidence will be available in 5 years or so to show the overall cost of this pandemic. Of course that doesn't help the situation now, when there are decisions to be made.

To make a definitive call on it at this stage is a fools game

 

[glorygloryeze]

I’ve been posting in here for a few months and not seen any good evidence of that. Nor have I seen a plan. Someone said the plan was to track and trace like Korea and that’s as much of an answer I’ve got so far.

Not seen good evidence of what?

 

[tommysvr]

LOL not really - just shows if you want to throw insults around you don’t really have much worth saying.

where did I say deaths?


But another stat for you to ignore

Where did I “throw insults around?” By calling you anti-lockdowners? If that’s not an accurate term then what is? Or did I insult you by calling Farage right wing nut job?

Can you define an excess death?

And once again, because I would happily go along with a better plan than lockdown if one existed, but I’m still fudging waiting for someone to even attempt an answer at that question.

 

[tommysvr]

Not seen good evidence of what?

You said

Plenty of evidence (and already posted here by several people) that in the UK at least lockdowns have had a lot of unintended consequences in terms of deaths, late diagnoses for other ailments/diseases.

Random tweets from unknown sources does not count.

 

[tommysvr]

Can’t wait to see what this thread is like after you’ve all spent the next 3 months in lockdown. fudging hell is unbearable enough already.

 

[glorygloryeze]

You said



Random tweets from unknown sources does not count.

Random Tweets from unknown sources? So Cancer charities, Hospital Doctors and other scientists count as random now?