Coronavirus

[Glenda's Legs]

So much for seeing it off in 12 weeks then eh BoJo!!! I fail to see how pubs closing at 10 is going to do much, if you're with someone for 2/3 hours rather than 4/5 hours you'll still likely catch it. It may reduce it a tiny amount if it puts people off going to the pub but in the grand scheme of it the main effect is to slowly starve the pubs until even more of them shut down whilst not reducing the virus spread - in other words the worst of both worlds.

I can kind of see the logic (if one accepts a key driver is to not totally kill off the hospitality industry). Test, track and trace (to the extent it is working at all) is showing that most infections are being spread in social environments, and that social distancing adherence drops off during later hours, and therefore there is more mixing in greater numbers.
I’ve also seen comments about what difference will one hour make, but that’s people still thinking pubs shut at 11pm.That’s not the case in most towns and cities, certainly at weekends, where opening hour often extend to midnight and beyond.
Stricter enforcement and legal requirements on venues to adhere rather than just guidance in the original re-opening phase would have made a difference imo.
But I agree, more pubs will end up going out of business, as well as restaurants which now can’t realistically take bookings much later than 8.30-9pm if they need to be shut up by 10pm.
@Grays_1890 has often made the point about personal responsibility and I couldn’t agree more with that. The problem is there is little appetite for many to take on that responsibility if it interferes with social engagements.

The first lock down succeeded over time in limiting/bringing down the number of hospital admissions and deaths. I’m not sure this one will.

 

[Legohamster]

Care homes/hospitals are an issue for increased mortality risk maybe, yes.. But pubs and restauarants are still a big problem for transmission.

Greater transmission then equals a greater chance of the virus getting to care homes and those more vulnerable. Surely you get that?

have you seen the break down of infectious areas?

I hardly use the pub, so it’s not really an issue for me so it’s not bias.

it’s just the easy target to blame the public.

 

[P.D.]

Someone said it was his way of saying use it properly or lose it permanent. I get that TBH because if he closed I down the uproar would be tenfold

Goes back to the point I made earlier the pubs a glaring issue based on the fact its different from anywhere else in terms of masks etc. So people who use them are getting a leg up on people wanting to actually go to work which is odd, is what it is so use it properly or lose it. Its on the public to decide with their actions.

Its also saying to pub enforce the rules better or lose your business which I get. Pubs have been supported more than most time they tightened up so other industries might get a chance to get on

I don't think we can blame the pubs, I read earlier that out of 700+ outbreaks that were being monitored only around 5-10 were from pubs. Based on that it doesn't appear that they are super spreaders - the highest were care homes, hospitals and peoples own houses.

 

[Grays_1890]

The stats don’t back up pubs and restaurants being an issue - it’s care homes /hospitals mainly

But they are a potential source and there is growing evidence they are a major source of rules flouting esp after drink

The government has never blamed pubs, these rules are a message no doubt and why not make it 10? is it a big deal?

Ultimately no masks, drinking meaning a lack of self awareness and rules means they should do more to enforce the rules, I have been in alot of pubs in lockdown and its clear many are not.

Regardless of potential infection is it not a good idea to remind people that the covid safe rules are there to be followed?

 

[Baleforce]

I've been in restaurants where they haven't taken contact details, places like Starbucks are leaving it up to customers to scan a code.

As has been said, things not being enforced, and people thinking "it'll be ok just this once, I feel fine".

 

[nayenezgani]

I've been in restaurants where they haven't taken contact details, places like Starbucks are leaving it up to customers to scan a code.

As has been said, things not being enforced, and people thinking "it'll be ok just this once, I feel fine".

This! Restaurant/pub stats are total flimflam because 2/3 of businesses aren't doing any track and trace, aren't enforcing distancing etc.

 

[Legohamster]

But they are a potential source and there is growing evidence they are a major source of rules flouting esp after drink

sure - it makes sense in theory, but that isn’t back up with any stats of outbreaks.

I think people make a big deal out of pubs but how many in the UK have been shut for breaking rules out of how many checks?

3 that I can remember

whilst I agree the public have to take some blame - the Gov are aiming to shift all the blame to the public.

 

[Grays_1890]

I don't think we can blame the pubs, I read earlier that out of 700+ outbreaks that were being monitored only around 5-10 were from pubs. Based on that it doesn't appear that they are super spreaders - the highest were care homes, hospitals and peoples own houses.

Because people live in them places and have been allowed bubbles so that makes sense.

Does not mean that pubs should be cranked up in terms of pressure to abide by rules. Plenty of local councils have been screaming for that support because of what has been seen as clear flouting.

And I love the pub so I am bias in their direction

 

[Grays_1890]

whilst I agree the public have to take some blame - the Gov are aiming to shift all the blame to the public.

They are not, where are they saying this? You are saying that

Asking people to buck up on their actions is not passing the blame.

Do you think the Government because of mistakes cant ask the public to act smarter?

Like others have said pubs are not enforcing the rules, I am not a one off case to say I rarely get asked for my details in different pubs for track and trace and its not policed in terms of checking ID against info given so this could well be a reason tracing back to pubs is so poor.

 

[Grays_1890]

I've been in restaurants where they haven't taken contact details, places like Starbucks are leaving it up to customers to scan a code.

As has been said, things not being enforced, and people thinking "it'll be ok just this once, I feel fine".

I have had scores of these experiences, I tell people to fudge off if they come near because I can abide by the rules and still enjoy a pint in safety but many cant.

The point is not about the numbers, its about people following the rules. Only earlier people on here said rules should be policed better, well this is one way of doing it.

Rightly so

 

[Legohamster]

I've been in restaurants where they haven't taken contact details, places like Starbucks are leaving it up to customers to scan a code.

As has been said, things not being enforced, and people thinking "it'll be ok just this once, I feel fine".

I personally thought you had to be in the place for longer than 15 minutes as that was the time needed?

there’s been so many changes it may have already moved on.

This! Restaurant/pub stats are total flimflam because 2/3 of businesses aren't doing any track and trace, aren't enforcing distancing etc.

Come on, if it was really 2/3 there be be far more pubs being fined/shut down.

This is also a mute point as Gove said today you can still head back to a makes house and carry on drinking - who thought the government would contradict

 

[Grays_1890]

you can still head back to a makes house and carry on drinking - who thought the government would contradict

How is that a contradiction because if you stick to the numbers guideline its a fact, in fact you could stay home and have a drink and not go to the pub.

Its a case of, act responsibly take personal responsibility for both people and pubs. I fail to see how that is viewed as a negative.

 

[Legohamster]

They are not, where are they saying this? You are saying that

Asking people to buck up on their actions is not passing the blame.

Do you think the Government because of mistakes cant ask the public to act smarter?

Like others have said pubs are not enforcing the rules, I am not a one off case to say I rarely get asked for my details in different pubs for track and trace and its not policed in terms of checking ID against info given so this could well be a reason tracing back to pubs is so poor.

How much of Boris did you listen to today?

he was blaming this all on the public when ever he got the chance.

add Hanrooster the other day as well.

I agree the public are an issue, but there has been a shift to mentioning it.

 

[Grays_1890]

Come on, if it was really 2/3 there be be far more pubs being fined/shut down.

I could go to my three local pubs tonight and see regular and consistent flouting in each one, without fail

 

[Grays_1890]

How much of Boris did you listen to today?

he was blaming this all on the public when ever he got the chance.

add Hanrooster the other day as well.

I agree the public are an issue, but there has been a shift to mentioning it.

I listened to it all and his statement was for people to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY, not blame.

There is a huge difference and TBH for all their mistakes it is a governments job to keep the message going and TBH regardless if I was the worst PM in the world based on the daily reports of parks, beaches, pubs flouting of rules etc I would 100% keep drumming home the message of personal responsibility, its their job.

I dont personally see that as blame

 

[nayenezgani]

Come on, if it was really 2/3 there be be far more pubs being fined/shut down.

But you don't go to pubs or restaurants? I've been to a few and I can say for sure, more often than not they are being very, very slack. Dinner on Saturday, no track and trace.

 

[nayenezgani]

But you don't go to pubs or restaurants? I've been to a few and I can say for sure, more often than not they are being very, very slack. Dinner on Saturday, no track and trace.

To add to that, I don't think I've seen one business being checked on by law enforcement either, during this latest 'relaxed' lockdown period.

 

[Legohamster]

But you don't go to pubs or restaurants? I've been to a few and I can say for sure, more often than not they are being very, very slack. Dinner on Saturday, no track and trace.

I said pubs, restaurants majority I’ve had to make a booking before I went - so they have all my details (couldn’t get anywhere decent during eat out with out booking) the other ones I’ve been to have all had less tables to give space.

Thats London/Brighton area

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Looks like cases peaked during the Australian winter and now they are coming to spring the cases are declining again? As we’ve seen all over Europe.

Would I be right in saying Melbourne is more seasonal than other major cities in Oz as well, which could be a reason for the additional cases there compared to the rest of the country?

No Tasmania is much colder and they have had a much lower infection rate than Melbourne.

 

[Grays_1890]

But you don't go to pubs or restaurants? I've been our to a few and I can say for sure, more often than not they are being very, very slack. Dinner on Saturday, no track and trace.

Some are doing it well, my favorite Turkish place are brilliant and you have to reserve to begin with and they text you which proves your number is valid and you bring that with you and ID so if there is an outbreak you can 100% be traced. I have not been anywhere that has been that efficient TBH.

And as you say I go to my local 3/4 times a week to read paper and get away from family for an hour and I have not seen a cop or a council worker once in a few months.

Look I am not lobbying for pubs to be shut but I dont see how the Government sending a message of use it properly or lose it permanently as a negative, for all their faults I dont get that at all.