Coronavirus

[Grays_1890]

The government are partly responsible for people's lack of care for the rules. This is absolutely true. Cummings set a precedent for negligence.

In terms of extended furlough. Other countries are planning to do it. I don't think it's sensible economically. No argument there. But if we end furlough then what do you think the impact will be?

If you struggle to know the difference between right and wrong and need the government as a backstop then you have issues, politics aside or not.

If we end furlough companies are likely to lay their staff off, some have already done so in only having to pay smaller amounts in contributions. That will no doubt accelerate but then even with the threat likely to hang over my job I dont expect the country to be able to afford to be able to extend the scheme. I would say that its unlikely as the longer this continues even with furlough scheme assistance companies are likely to struggle to come back. If this continues into 2021 say Q2 my company will likely go under, so what do you do, pay people furlough to only never go back to work, I suppose its a means to an ends to keep them off unemployment but its no answer to the real problems, its the kid with his finger in the dam.

 

[Baleforce]

It’s not so much a right or wrong, more a “how dangerous can it be, they tell us he’s a responsible parent, he’s in government, he knows the real facts, if it was transmitted that easily he wouldn’t be taking his wife on a birthday picnic and risking his son getting it, they are clearly lying to us for some other reason, so fudge them, I’m off to the beach then the boozer”.

Now, a lot of people are smarter than that, but plenty are not.

 

[Mikey10]

Easy really

Continue with Covid safe environments including social distancing, numbers and mask

Get people back to work under these restrictions and protect the vulnerable and elderly

8 months in and I still don’t understand how you protect the elderly and the vulnerable in an open society in which these people live in multi-generational houses and/or with non-vulnerable people.

 

[Baleforce]

8 months in and I still don’t understand how you protect the elderly and the vulnerable in an open society in which these people live in multi-generational houses and/or with non-vulnerable people.

needed to be a managed approach, work out exactly who is where and isolate accordingly, give people a heads up and ask them what they need first, take the hassle away of people needed to shop and collect prescriptions etc

obviously a very basic idea, but we have a massive bureaucracy that could have handled the details and really drilled down to street level solutions

 

[Grays_1890]

8 months in and I still don’t understand how you protect the elderly and the vulnerable in an open society in which these people live in multi-generational houses and/or with non-vulnerable people.

Its easy, people know if they are over a certain age and know it they have historical illness issues so alot has to come from them.

My dad is in his late 70s and has emphysema and he self shields without guidance, given the guidance needed people could make their own minds up if they wanted to,

I think if you added a safety net that is safe for them as @Baleforce says then I think its 100% possible

 

[Grays_1890]

So in summary, mass unemployment, mass poverty until at least Spring next year.

Splendid, absolutely splendid

 

[Yiddo]

Pretty much said, if all of you fudging idiots abide by the the rules then we won’t have to go into a second lockdown.

Should have been a full lockdown with army on the streets to begin with.

 

[Grays_1890]

Pretty much said, if all of you fudging idiots abide by the the rules then we won’t have to go into a second lockdown.

Should have been a full lockdown with army on the streets to begin with.

Worse of all we are not going to see any progression from where we are today till at least spring.

That's a horrendous thought

 

[Mikey10]

Its easy, people know if they are over a certain age and know it they have historical illness issues so alot has to come from them.

My dad is in his late 70s and has emphysema and he self shields without guidance, given the guidance needed people could make their own minds up if they wanted to,

I think if you added a safety net that is safe for them as @Baleforce says then I think its 400% possible

You still haven’t explained how? What about people who live in multi-generational houses? How do they shield?

Your dad is in his 70s - is he retired? If so, he can make his own choices (especially if he lives alone). What about a 50 year old nurse with bad asthma? Or a 60 year old teacher with diabetes and high blood pressure. They are vulnerable. How do they shield when they are expected to work?

You are also ignoring the growing evidence around long Covid which seems to affect people of all ages (and even those who are asymptomatic).

 

[Legohamster]

So in summary, mass unemployment, mass poverty until at least Spring next year.

Splendid, absolutely splendid

you think this country is recovering any time soon?

this is gunna be 10 years at least.

 

[Grays_1890]

You still haven’t explained how? What about people who live in multi-generational houses? How do they shield?

Your dad is in his 70s - is he retired? If so, he can make his own choices (especially if he lives alone). What about a 50 year old nurse with bad asthma? Or a 60 year old teacher with diabetes and high blood pressure. They are vulnerable. How do they shield when they are expected to work?

You are also ignoring the growing evidence around long Covid which seems to affect people of all ages (and even those who are asymptomatic).

If you was high risk and in the age of working I would like to see a financial support go to those that can not work with a guarantee to return to work when this is finished. The money would be available as there would be less applying for the scheme than a blanket furlough scheme. It could be a furlough for the most vulnerable. Not everyone is a teacher or nurse though so there is also an ability to work from home.

I am not ignoring long Covid, I am applying the logic based on who we know are most vulnerable. What was it, 1 to 2% under 45 in the UK and US died of CV and those were found to have underling conditions.

Look there are no easy decisions to make, lets be straight there but I can hand on heart say that I would prefer to stay home and shield and give the world a chance than feel sorry for myself having to stay home whilst others dont, I would especially understand if it meant those going back to work ensured I had a company to return to.

Why would anyone wish everyone to suffer just to keep a status quo? I am saying I dont think we should all stay home throw our hands in the air and say thats it.

 

[Grays_1890]

you think this country is recovering any time soon?

this is gunna be 10 years at least.

No I dont, this is what I am saying.

This is all going to end if tears

 

[Baleforce]

You still haven’t explained how? What about people who live in multi-generational houses? How do they shield?

Your dad is in his 70s - is he retired? If so, he can make his own choices (especially if he lives alone). What about a 50 year old nurse with bad asthma? Or a 60 year old teacher with diabetes and high blood pressure. They are vulnerable. How do they shield when they are expected to work?

You are also ignoring the growing evidence around long Covid which seems to affect people of all ages (and even those who are asymptomatic).

you bubble and isolate the whole house and a dedicated carer if needed (one able to join the bubble for a fortnight), give them three weeks of provisions/rent/mortgage/utility money, mark in advance a medical team to work with them should anyone show symptoms, prepare for everything in advance check in constantly

yes it would be expensive, but not furlough expensive

 

[Legohamster]

We are actually behind every European state now in recovery and also I would argue the states.

that is some achievement

Pretty much said, if all of you fudging idiots abide by the the rules then we won’t have to go into a second lockdown.

Should have been a full lockdown with army on the streets to begin with.

do you know who had that sort of lock down?

Peru

have a look at those numbers


QUOTE="Mikey10, post: 1354390, member: 10804"]You still haven’t explained how? What about people who live in multi-generational houses? How do they shield?

Your dad is in his 70s - is he retired? If so, he can make his own choices (especially if he lives alone). What about a 50 year old nurse with bad asthma? Or a 60 year old teacher with diabetes and high blood pressure. They are vulnerable. How do they shield when they are expected to work?

You are also ignoring the growing evidence around long Covid which seems to affect people of all ages (and even those who are asymptomatic).[/QUOTE]

with Proper testing in place and WFH these things are pretty easy to work around

plus the example of the teacher - with targeted furlough you can afford to cover those

also - what if that older person doesn’t want to be shielded and they are more than happy for that risk?

 

[Grays_1890]

also - what if that older person doesn’t want to be shielded and they are more than happy for that risk?

That parts key, you could lay the guidelines and support system and if people who are high risk want to ignore its on them. Personal choice.

You would also in my mind run a normality with social distancing and make offices Covid Ready, we have spent thousands doing that already in our office for example so I am not saying a return to the norm, but there is a middle ground for me.

I 100% believe we could return to a shuffled staff rota that allows offices to open and the knock on effect to start to take place to local small business etc to take place, its not just about an office returning to be selfish its the knock on to lock lunch spots, money into local economy, getting wheels turning.

The way we are going now, with spring 2021 being the target there will be over 10% unemployment without doubt with nowhere for these people to come and as someone said earlier years of hurt and pain. Even if you flipped a switch today to say go back to pre lockdown times we would be in the crude, by spring next year we are going to be in dire circumstances and I believe Covid will be least of worries.

 

[P.D.]

Its been mandatory for a few weeks I think

The group numbers, social distancing and cleaning was mandatory from day 1 and often flouted in my experience.

My bad I didnt realise it was mandatory, not been for anything more than a casual pint in ages.

 

[markysimmo]

 

[Legohamster]

That parts key, you could lay the guidelines and support system and if people who are high risk want to ignore its on them. Personal choice.

You would also in my mind run a normality with social distancing and make offices Covid Ready, we have spent thousands doing that already in our office for example so I am not saying a return to the norm, but there is a middle ground for me.

I 400% believe we could return to a shuffled staff rota that allows offices to open and the knock on effect to start to take place to local small business etc to take place, its not just about an office returning to be selfish its the knock on to lock lunch spots, money into local economy, getting wheels turning.

The way we are going now, with spring 2021 being the target there will be over 10% unemployment without doubt with nowhere for these people to come and as someone said earlier years of hurt and pain. Even if you flipped a switch today to say go back to pre lockdown times we would be in the crude, by spring next year we are going to be in dire circumstances and I believe Covid will be least of worries.

country is done.

that’s killed off Pubs/night life/aviation/arts and all those jobs supply chains that connect into them.

throw in the mess they are making of Brexit and it is starting to look like they are doing this on purpose.


thankfully it seems Tory back benchers are not happy.

 

[Baleforce]

View attachment 9455

In that scenario is he committing suicide because he has COVID?

Terrible way to make a point

 

[Mikey10]

you bubble and isolate the whole house and a dedicated carer if needed (one able to join the bubble for a fortnight), give them three weeks of provisions/rent/mortgage/utility money, mark in advance a medical team to work with them should anyone show symptoms, prepare for everything in advance check in constantly

yes it would be expensive, but not furlough expensive

What happens after 3 weeks? Has the virus disappeared?