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Coronavirus

glorygloryeze said:
The point is that the Government are proposing rolling out a COVID-19 vaccine EVEN IF NOT LICENSED.

Amongst other thing they are also proposing:

a) that people beyond healthcare professionals like the usual registered doctors and nurses who have licences are also able to administer the vaccine (e.g. paramedics, physios, occupation health staff, pharmacists, perhaps Local Authority staff etc)

b) Vaccine manufacturers are exempt from any civil liability in the event of any vaccine-related injuries or other adverse effects

I was pointing that in light of this, whether MHRA approve of a covid-19 vaccine or not may well be largely irrelevant
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You know how I feel about this government. And if there was an unsafe vaccine being pushed the outcry would be deafening and many people would not take it making it useless.
 
elyid said:
The worse thing about this for me is how none of the rules are enforced. If everything is optional, what's the point?

I go on the train most days and 1/4 of people not wearing masks, it's just optional to wear one.

Also 2 separate households on my road have returned from holiday requiring quarantine. Neither of them are, just laughing "it's fine, nobody checks".

Why are they not doing door checks?

It seems in other countries fines etc. are enforced, whereas here everything is just optional.
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The issue is you have a lockdown and when you come out part of that is on people to be sensible.

Aside from the Government being crap joe public cant be trusted either, I see it daily. We would be in a doubly better position if the Government got their act together and people decided that having a rave was not a good idea.

Its impossible to enforce door to door checks, there are not enough people to do it and focus has to remain on other crime, its on the public to do things sensibly too.

Then you have people who debate that they would not inform on a neighbor, well you cant have it both ways either.
 
elyid said:
The worse thing about this for me is how none of the rules are enforced. If everything is optional, what's the point?

I go on the train most days and 1/4 of people not wearing masks, it's just optional to wear one.

Also 2 separate households on my road have returned from holiday requiring quarantine. Neither of them are, just laughing "it's fine, nobody checks".

Why are they not doing door checks?

It seems in other countries fines etc. are enforced, whereas here everything is just optional.
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It does seem like that’s one of the things they are changing - making restrictions legally binding rather than just advice/guidelines. Of course that’s only well and good it there is enforcement - and sufficient resources for that enforcement - behind it. At least going forward police and local authorities will be able to apply sanctions, and not just to those breaking the rules but to those facilitating it.
It’s a deathknell though for many businesses and therefore many, many jobs.

Whatever the new restrictions are, if we are going to have them then the government absolutely MUST use the time the restrictions are in force to get the testing, tracking and tracing sorted out so that it works properly everywhere.
We can’t keep going in and out of restrictive measures like this.
There can’t be any more excuses.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Then you have people who debate that they would not inform on a neighbor, well you cant have it both ways either.
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In my personal circumstance my neighbours would heavily suspect it was me that reported them (I was the only one not to attend a mid lockdown party) most likely their reactions would then impact on me in some way. I would definitely have someone at my door asking "Did you report me for not quarantining"...

It just seems backwards for a government to not even make it look like they are enforcing the rules.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Whatever the new restrictions are, if we are going to have them then the government absolutely MUST use the time the restrictions are in force to get the testing, tracking and tracing sorted out so that it works properly everywhere.
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Apparently the app goes live on Thursday, although I guess there is a non-zero chance it goes haywire :)

I don't really care too much about catching covid myself, but respect that it's a complicated situation for any government to manage. I would agree you're 100% correct that an effective track & trace system is vital to get back to fairly close to normal.

They are using the Apple and Google APIs (finally!) so fingers crossed at least that part should work perfectly.
 
elyid said:
It just seems backwards for a government to not even make it look like they are enforcing the rules.
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Yeh I agree but as I say its impossible to police the whole country because there is no uniform way in which people break rules.

As much as the Government has done wrong there should be a trade off where people take personal responsibility. I dont want a lockdown never did was clear and still is, but if the public cant be trusted either we get what we deserve to an extent.

Sometimes the Government are a great excuse factor for people to be idiots too or act recklessly. For example, I know the risks of going to the pub now in lockdown, just because its ok to go I dont blame the government on the risk, the risk is still mine to go, they cant offer a full proof risk free pub scenario, the do one based on people abiding on the rules, thats not full proof, but going is on me, I know the risks. I cant blame them then for anything relating to me going and maybe getting the illness. Where I do blame them is opening pubs and not other avenues of work which can be run safer, but thats another subject.

Point is I know where my responsibility lies in all this, if there was no lockdown I know the risks to go to work, use transport etc etc would be on me, I also know there would be a choice for me to stay home should I wish, again its on me.

So whilst I make it clear, the Government has and continues to mess up, the public has to play it part.
 
Grays_1890 said:
If and its a big if but IF we are getting the same level of cases which is comparable to April as I am hearing yet the deaths no increasing to the same level because the vulnerable are better protected and that remains the same into next month then I would love the government to have to bottle to use that data and get people back to critical parts of their life before the country collapse on its absolute ar5e
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Don't think we are anywhere near the level of cases that we were in April (yet)
 
Grays_1890 said:
As much as the Government has done wrong there should be a trade off where people take personal responsibility.
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Yes, you've hit the tickle my balls with a feather there.

Unfortunately we've somehow cultivated a society where there are a lot of adults in this country who are unable to be responsible (Just look at the amount of litter, spilt coffees, dropped food etc. that appears on the tube each morning, people can't even get to work sensibly).

Particularly with Covid there seems to be a simmering trend where it's considered "stupid/uncool" to follow the rules.

Hopefully the tracing app helps.
 
Grays_1890 said:
In April anywhere between 4000 and 6000 daily reported cases, we are ate what 4000 now?
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In April, if we had the testing capability, we were likely running at 80k+ new infections daily.

As I said in a previous post we have not had the testing capacity or data collection to show what a full cycle graph looks like.

If we had eg 200k tests a day from Jan 1st, the graph would look a lot different. A long slope up to a big peak.(circa 80k pd) The figure today could be akin to maybe mid Feb first time round.

That's also why it's risky to say we are not seeing the hospitalisation s as positive cases go up...that's because we are just in the foothills.

Realistically we've done nothing but hide from the virus, so as we show our faces again it can find new hosts. The only thing that might help is if the virus has weakened itself for some reason or many more people have had it or a resistant to it than we think., so hindering its ability to spread.

I think we are at such a fragmented, multi layered complex approach that they are better off insisting that the vulnerable and those needing to shield be protected and then present everyone else with a series of data compiled so far (the simple to understand stuff) and let the people make their own minds up about the risk (just as many people already think they know best) and be accepting of any consequences that may come to pass if they want to carry on life as close to normal. (but still insisting they do the basics...wash hands, mask etc)
 
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