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Climate Change

Rorschach said:
A lot to unpack in there which I don't really have time to respond on. All I'll say in response is that electricity is everywhere and the infrastructure is tinkle easy to put in. I put a charger on my own house (myself!) for 120 quid. Build it and they will come. Personally, I think you are worrying too much about this but I accept you have concerns. To me we are in the realm of policy decisions rather than technical ones.
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It is simply reality. There isn’t an electric car charger on my street. You make out it’s easy, but I can’t charge an EV anywhere on my road. Why? Electricity is everywhere [emoji85] I was ready to buy a hybrid. Prepared to walk 10 mins to charge it up overnight (how will that work with thousands of people?) but when I hired the same car to test it, I found the charger didn’t work and was normally blocked by ICE cars parking in the bay. If the low volt charger had worked it would have taken 10 hours to charge the car fully. That is the reality.

Citing fabulous charging times is also selling things as far more convenient than they are in reality. There are no high watt chargers in the UK that will achieve these cited charging times. Let alone ones in cities real people can use day to day. But it’s all easy, electricity is everywhere. Yes things will improve! But if we don’t recognise the massive issues how can we solve them?

Again I do not wish to tinkle on anyone strawberries. I am eager to see clean motoring and a clean environment. I want to buy a car that doesn’t pollute myself. But to achieve these things we have to be clear what the challenges are so we can address them. Peoples intent and dreams are ahead of what is currently possible. Which is the way it should be. To realise the dream there is a lot to be done.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
Lilbaz said:
You realise we are moving to clean energy? So the diggers in the mines, moving the metal to china, the making of the batteries etc... won't produce co2?
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Now? Or at some undefined point in the future? Let’s be honest, for the foreseeable the diggers in Russia and deepest Africa are not going to be the gleaming example of perfection we’d love them to be. They won’t be running on water emitting hydrogen but dirty diesel. As for the tankers how many are currently using clean energy propulsion?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
SpurMeUp said:
It is simply reality. There isn’t an electric car charger on my street. You make out it’s easy, but I can’t charge an EV anywhere on my road. Why? Electricity is everywhere [emoji85] I was ready to buy a hybrid. Prepared to walk 10 mins to charge it up overnight (how will that work with thousands of people?) but when I hired the same car to test it, I found the charger didn’t work and was normally blocked by ICE cars parking in the bay. If the low volt charger had worked it would have taken 10 hours to charge the car fully. That is the reality.

Citing fabulous charging times is also selling things as far more convenient than they are in reality. There are no high watt chargers in the UK that will achieve these cited charging times. Let alone ones in cities real people can use day to day. But it’s all easy, electricity is everywhere. Yes things will improve! But if we don’t recognise the massive issues how can we solve them?

Again I do not wish to tinkle on anyone strawberries. I am eager to see clean motoring and a clean environment. I want to buy a car that doesn’t pollute myself. But to achieve these things we have to be clear what the challenges are so we can address them. Peoples intent and dreams are ahead of what is currently possible. Which is the way it should be. To realise the dream there is a lot to be done.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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Nobody is forcing you to buy an ev today. We are saying we are working on solutions to all of the problems you mention.

In 2016 we had 6000 charging points in the uk. In 2018 that had risen to 12,000. Now it stands at around 26,000. We will be adding more. Just because there wasn't a charging point on your street doesn't mean they wont put one there in the near future.

We once used horses for our transport. I bet there were people who thought that cars would never take off. But they did, we built them and we built the infrastucture. We are doing the same now.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Now? Or at some undefined point in the future? Let’s be honest, for the foreseeable the diggers in Russia and deepest Africa are not going to be the gleaming example of perfection we’d love them to be. They won’t be running on water emitting hydrogen but dirty diesel. As for the tankers how many are currently using clean energy propulsion?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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Nobody has said everything is clean now. It is a process. We are taking steps towards a cleaner future. Each step we take means less co2 in the atmosphere, we also improve technology and make the next step easier. Your argument seems to be that because it will take time to change things we should do nothing? Not an option.
 
Lilbaz said:
Nobody is forcing you to buy an ev today. We are saying we are working on solutions to all of the problems you mention.

In 2016 we had 6000 charging points in the uk. In 2018 that had risen to 12,000. Now it stands at around 26,000. We will be adding more. Just because there wasn't a charging point on your street doesn't mean they wont put one there in the near future.

We once used horses for our transport. I bet there were people who thought that cars would never take off. But they did, we built them and we built the infrastucture. We are doing the same now.
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The difference is not everyone who used a horse back then was forced to never get a new horse. We are looking to make a seismic shift in a matter of a few years. And I must reiterate - it’s positive and exciting. But to ensure it’s not a clusterfuk, or worse a failure so the change doesn’t occur - we should be spending more time focusing on projecting what the issues will be; rather than imagining perfect futures. Which is always a nice thing to do. Humans are gifted at dreaming. It’s part of us. What we don’t always do is fill-in all the messy detail required to fulfil our dreams. And thank goodness because we probably wouldn’t undertake half the things we do knowing what is actually involved. The human brain effectively lies to us [emoji5] we see outcomes but rarely the detailed journey.

Eurocat regulations will see EVs arriving en mass even faster than the UKs 2030 deadline. I think it’s 2027 EU regs so a matter of 5 years.

Im fully behind it, and personally don’t mind there being some anarchy to achieve the greater good. You just don’t want to give people any excuses to derail it.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
SpurMeUp said:
The difference is not everyone who used a horse back then was forced to never get a new horse. We are looking to make a seismic shift in a matter of a few years. And I must reiterate - it’s positive and exciting. But to ensure it’s not a clusterfuk, or worse a failure so the change doesn’t occur - we should be spending more time focusing on projecting what the issues will be; rather than imagining perfect futures. Which is always a nice thing to do. Humans are gifted at dreaming. It’s part of us. What we don’t always do is fill-in all the messy detail required to fulfil our dreams. And thank goodness because we probably wouldn’t undertake half the things we do knowing what is actually involved. The human brain effectively lies to us [emoji5] we see outcomes but rarely the detailed journey.

Eurocat regulations will see EVs arriving en mass even faster than the UKs 2030 deadline. I think it’s 2027 EU regs so a matter of 5 years.

Im fully behind it, and personally don’t mind there being some anarchy to achieve the greater good. You just don’t want to give people any excuses to derail it.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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How much money do you think the likes of exxon mobil and bp etc... make from selling petrol? That is what's up for grabs. Why the likes of tesla ard others are building them. As more ev's come on the road so will more charging stations. They aren't doing it to save the planet, they are doing it to make money. Billions.
 
SpurMeUp said:
It is simply reality. There isn’t an electric car charger on my street. You make out it’s easy, but I can’t charge an EV anywhere on my road. Why? Electricity is everywhere https://emoji.Fapatalk-cdn.com/emoji85.png I was ready to buy a hybrid. Prepared to walk 10 mins to charge it up overnight (how will that work with thousands of people?) but when I hired the same car to test it, I found the charger didn’t work and was normally blocked by ICE cars parking in the bay. If the low volt charger had worked it would have taken 10 hours to charge the car fully. That is the reality.

Citing fabulous charging times is also selling things as far more convenient than they are in reality. There are no high watt chargers in the UK that will achieve these cited charging times. Let alone ones in cities real people can use day to day. But it’s all easy, electricity is everywhere. Yes things will improve! But if we don’t recognise the massive issues how can we solve them?

Again I do not wish to tinkle on anyone strawberries. I am eager to see clean motoring and a clean environment. I want to buy a car that doesn’t pollute myself. But to achieve these things we have to be clear what the challenges are so we can address them. Peoples intent and dreams are ahead of what is currently possible. Which is the way it should be. To realise the dream there is a lot to be done.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Click to expand...
I'm with you on this. I agree that there are insufficient charging points but just to reiterate this is a policy decision. Norway have shown the way. So time for a march ;). A quiet one though or Patel will put you in prison.

On hybrids, my take is to forget them. The battery is too small as you have to accommodate two motors. They are methadone when you will need cold turkey (though not this xmas).
 
Rorschach said:
I'm with you on this. I agree that there are insufficient charging points but just to reiterate this is a policy decision>norway have shown the way. So time for a march ;). A quiet one though or Patel will put you in prison.

On hybrids, my take is to forget them. The battery is too small as you have to accommodate two motors. They are methadone when you will need cold turkey (though not this xmas).
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Agreed. But pragmatism may necessitate them. Euro 7 car regs will usher in more stringent controls on ICEs. Car companies may choose to not invest in a dying technology. It is not easy to squeeze more efficiency from petrol engines which under Euro VI are already highly efficient. So manufacturers should focus on going cold turkey. Which will mean possibly faster adoption of EVs than we think.

There isn’t enough joined up thinking on how the UK can prepare. Local councils don’t have the money or drive to equip their neighbourhoods and while dollar signs are motivating the free market they need buy in from government to equip our streets.

We’ve seen how infrastructure companies don’t always operate best in the hands of the private sector. Trains, utility companies etc. some leadership from national government will be required for EVs to take over the cities.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
We also have to look at it the other way. If you own an ice car, things are going to get tough. As more ev's come on the road and less ice cars there will be less demand for petrol stations, mechanics etc... they will close. Councils will make parking near ev charging points just for ev cars and will probably start banning ice cars from town centers.

It might be tough for ev owners now but as we transition it will get easier. The opposite for owners of ice.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Agreed. But pragmatism may necessitate them. Euro 7 car regs will usher in more stringent controls on ICEs. Car companies may choose to not invest in a dying technology. It is not easy to squeeze more efficiency from petrol engines which under Euro VI are already highly efficient. So manufacturers should focus on going cold turkey. Which will mean possibly faster adoption of EVs than we think.

There isn’t enough joined up thinking on how the UK can prepare. Local councils don’t have the money or drive to equip their neighbourhoods and while dollar signs are motivating the free market they need buy in from government to equip our streets.

We’ve seen how infrastructure companies don’t always operate best in the hands of the private sector. Trains, utility companies etc. some leadership from national government will be required for EVs to take over the cities.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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Well I don't know the UK situation really but a lot of it sounds similar to the challenges here. One final point on this. It is not the infrastructure in the traditional sense of the word. It is a glorified plug more or less.

I might also add the only reason I am still up is that is absolutely chucking it down and I won't go out and plug in my car.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Agreed. But pragmatism may necessitate them. Euro 7 car regs will usher in more stringent controls on ICEs. Car companies may choose to not invest in a dying technology. It is not easy to squeeze more efficiency from petrol engines which under Euro VI are already highly efficient. So manufacturers should focus on going cold turkey. Which will mean possibly faster adoption of EVs than we think.

There isn’t enough joined up thinking on how the UK can prepare. Local councils don’t have the money or drive to equip their neighbourhoods and while dollar signs are motivating the free market they need buy in from government to equip our streets.

We’ve seen how infrastructure companies don’t always operate best in the hands of the private sector. Trains, utility companies etc. some leadership from national government will be required for EVs to take over the cities.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Click to expand...

Agree manufacturers are not going to investing heavily in r&d or infrastructure for ice cars. They won't have enough time to get a good return on their investment.

This is the government scheme for on street charging for local authorities.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ctric-vehicles-guidance-for-local-authorities
 
So I’m going to ask almost certainly a stupid question, but energy (electric) can be stored in liquids right?

Anyone working on a ‘refillable’ liquid state battery? Because that will remove the problems of range and charging times

and if it is a stupid idea (it almost certainly is as I no nothing about the tech) then why is it?
 
DTA said:
So I’m going to ask almost certainly a stupid question, but energy (electric) can be stored in liquids right?

Anyone working on a ‘refillable’ liquid state battery? Because that will remove the problems of range and charging times

and if it is a stupid idea (it almost certainly is as I no nothing about the tech) then why is it?
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There are certainly liquids in some batteries. They use the liquids for the charge to pass from the anode to the cathode. But that can also be a solid. It just needs to keep the anode and cathode apart but let the charge pass through.

You also have liquid metal batteries.

Or liquid air batteries.

You need the whole battery to charge it though. Not just the liquid.

Liquid hydrogen works the same as petrol though.
 
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scaramanga said:
That story reminds me of my dissertation.

The conclusion was something like "Cheap, reusable passenger space flight is achievable, we just needs major leaps in material technology"
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Yeah most of these take with a huge pinch of salt. This the tech is already here. It's basically wireless charging just on a lot bigger scale (we've had wireless charging since the 19th century). Still loads of work to do though as it loses a lot of energy over such a long distance. I'd put it in the wait and see category.
 
Manchester United have defended their decision to fly the 100-mile journey to their Premier League game at Leicester.

United say they would not normally fly to the game but plans changed due to "circumstances". There were reports of traffic congestion on the M6.

Flying is a significant contributor to global warming and world leaders are meeting later this month in an attempt to avoid a climate catastrophe.

Manchester United defended its commitment to clean energy.

Climate experts and campaigners say we need to avoid or reduce flying because greenhouse gases, produced when fuel is burned, are "the root cause" of global warming. Scientists have warned that such warming could have a catastrophic effect on the planet
 
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