Christmas Wish List

[braineclipse]

We were supposed to have offered 20 plus for Berahinho. Add Townsend and Fazio fees and salaries and we should be able to spend up to say 40m. This is a key signing for us IMO.dont waste it.

Batushi, Igalho, Dembele ..... Or even dare I say it, Benteke

Remember that Pochettino was the man that when everyone and the transfer committee wanted a DM this summer said "nope" because £5m Dier moving to that position seemed like the best available solution to him.

We haven't seen nearly the best of Clinton or Son yet imo. We haven't seen anything from Pritchard yet. We have gotten results with the current squad.

But the solution going into January? Spend up to £40m? Is this really the expectation that makes the most sense based on what has brought us success so far?

Remember that of our most expensive signings recently (Soldado, Lamela and Paulinho) only Lamela looks on his way to becoming a success and it's taken quite some time to get to this point (how many times did you give up on him?). Would a high profile signing like that - surely someone that would demand playing time even during a settling in period - necessarily be positive for our results this season?

I'm all for supporting Poch. But again we see these numbers being thrown around like the primary way to support Poch is to just go out and spend big money, in January even.

I agree with billy, it really does seem like you want to be disappointed.

 

[braineclipse]

If Poch brought in a player like Berahino who can also play #9, #10 and wide, I could see him starting both and have them switching throughout the game. It is something he does now with Lamela, Son and Chadli sometimes leading whilst Kane wanders.

But isn't the main reason for signing a striker bringing in someone that can cover for Kane? Isn't that the current worry?

We're really not short on players that can play with Kane in our current setup. And arguably Alli, Dembele, Eriksen, Lamela and Son are all as good as or better than Berahino for those roles behind the striker. Does the £20-25m we probably have to pay for Berahino constitute value for us when we already have those options?

For me that only makes sense if Berahino also gives us very good cover for Kane. Something I still struggle to see that he does.

 

[milo]

But isn't the main reason for signing a striker bringing in someone that can cover for Kane? Isn't that the current worry?

We're really not short on players that can play with Kane in our current setup. And arguably Alli, Dembele, Eriksen, Lamela and Son are all as good as or better than Berahino for those roles behind the striker. Does the £20-25m we probably have to pay for Berahino constitute value for us when we already have those options?

For me that only makes sense if Berahino also gives us very good cover for Kane. Something I still struggle to see that he does.

I agree that seems to be the current concern. I was just responding to GB's point about moving Kane to accommodate another player and it being something that we already do in phases of the game.

 

[braineclipse]

I agree that seems to be the current concern. I was just responding to GB's point about moving Kane to accommodate another player and it being something that we already do in phases of the game.

Either way it then means dropping one of our current attacking midfielders. Is Berahino an upgrade on one of them?

Where would a Berahino signing leave Son?

 

[milo]

Either way it then means dropping one of our current attacking midfielders. Is Berahino an upgrade on one of them?

Where would a Berahino signing leave Son?

I agree with that. I was just referring to that specific situation that GB described. Although, I would think that having a striker who can cover a number of positions is probably better than having one who can only lead the line.

 

[parklane1]

Nothing like Lloris playing left back... Talk about two extremes

Kane has played 10 for us and looked good there. It's a viable alternative and option hence why we have played him there

Yes he has and I think he will end up there one day, he is perfect for it.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Yes he has and I think he will end up there one day, he is perfect for it.

Maybe, but I wouldn't count on it. I'd have to see many more through-balls of the sort he sent to Dier against West Ham last season before I'm convinced that he can take up a #10/shadow-striker role and look consistently good while carrying it out.

 

[parklane1]

Maybe, but I wouldn't count on it. I'd have to see many more through-balls of the sort he sent to Dier against West Ham last season before I'm convinced that he can take up a #10/shadow-striker role and look consistently good while carrying it out.

He has a eye for a pass, he likes to drop deep and run at players with the ball, his movement is good, he is very good at finding space pretty much what all good num 10"s do.

 

[DubaiSpur]

He has a eye for a pass, he likes to drop deep and run at players with the ball, his movement is good, he is very good at finding space pretty much what all good num 10"s do.

I'd agree with the last three, but again, his aptitude for playmaking, for me, remains a question. No doubt he's good when compared to similiar forwards, but a #10 needs to look for the pass (and especially the intricate pass that no one else sees) on a far more regular basis than Harry's seemingly done over his career so far. That through-ball for Dier shows that he can do it: the question is, will he be disposed towards doing it if that becomes his primary role? We've seen this season that ,during slumps, he tends to become more single-minded and go for goal far more often than when he's in a scoring run (often ignoring other players in promising positions in the process). That's the perfect approach for a striker who leads the line (and possesses a thunder-b*stard of a shot), but less of a solid plan for a #10 to pursue.

Just my two cents.

 

[parklane1]

I'd agree with the last three, but again, his aptitude for playmaking, for me, remains a question. No doubt he's good when compared to similiar forwards, but a #10 needs to look for the pass (and especially the intricate pass that no one else sees) on a far more regular basis than Harry's seemingly done over his career so far. That through-ball for Dier shows that he can do it: the question is, will he be disposed towards doing it if that becomes his primary role? We've seen this season that ,during slumps, he tends to become more single-minded and go for goal far more often than when he's in a scoring run (often ignoring other players in promising positions in the process). That's the perfect approach for a striker who leads the line (and possesses a thunder-b*stard of a shot), but less of a solid plan for a #10 to pursue.

Just my two cents.

Good points but maybe he does the bolded bit because at the moment he accepts that he is our main man as a striker and plays that way. If he plays behind another who takes the main role he may be less single-minded. He has the vision and intelligence to do just that ( imo).

 

[braineclipse]

I agree with that. I was just referring to that specific situation that GB described. Although, I would think that having a striker who can cover a number of positions is probably better than having one who can only lead the line.

If that player can lead the line as well as someone who pretty much only fits the striker role that much seems obvious. The question remains if Berahino is capable of playing that role for us to an acceptable level (and better than Son/Clinton).

I think we benefit significantly from Kane's physicality and height. In some games and situations it's vital for us. Asking for a player that can replace that and also cover a number of positions means asking for a player that's much harder to find than someone that more or less only plays that role.

All the other positions you talk about we already have fairly good cover for. But the role Kane plays we have no real cover for. I would rather have someone that pretty much only fits that role (complete or complete-ish striker) than someone who can play as a striker and a wide man, but isn't adequate cover for Kane's role.

We've seen quite a few strikers that have been in essence good enough in terms of overall quality, but poor fits to our system over the years.

Yes he has and I think he will end up there one day, he is perfect for it.

He also seems perfect for the #9 role. Whereas we already have at least 3-4 players that can play the #10 role in our squad (Alli, Dembele, Eriksen, Lamela etc) we only have one player capable of playing as a complete striker leading the line as a lone forward for us. That's a player type that's much harder to find than a good #10 imo. And arguably a piece of the puzzle you cannot do without in our system.

It would have to take one hell of a striker to force Kane deeper at this point. Considering how difficult we've found striker signings since Berbatov I'm guessing Kane will remain where he is.

 

[harr1984]

Either way it then means dropping one of our current attacking midfielders. Is Berahino an upgrade on one of them?

Where would a Berahino signing leave Son?

It's not as simple as that though. Because if Poch and Mitchell have identified Berahino, it isn't about the level Berahino is at now it's about what type of player and how high a level Poch believes he could coach Berahino to become. All of the current squad have had the privelage of his methods,Berahino has not yet....

 

[DubaiSpur]

I think we benefit significantly from Kane's physicality and height. In some games and situations it's vital for us. Asking for a player that can replace that and also cover a number of positions means asking for a player that's much harder to find than someone that more or less only plays that role.

I will bang my Inaki Williams drum again: 6'1 (only two centimetres shorter than Harry, and significantly taller than Berahino, Son, Clinton and many other alternatives for that role), lightning fast and able to cover both wing-forward positions as well as up front.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Good points but maybe he does the bolded bit because at the moment he accepts that he is our main man as a striker and plays that way. If he plays behind another who takes the main role he may be less single-minded. He has the vision and intelligence to do just that ( imo).

Hmm. You may be right: it'll be interesting to witness, surely. We'll see if we do get a striker in at some point that Harry partners up with/plays behind: if he becomes a more intuitive playmaker when freed from the responsibility of being our main goalscorer, then great, the better for the team as a whole.

 

[braineclipse]

It's not as simple as that though. Because if Poch and Mitchell have identified Berahino, it isn't about the level Berahino is at now it's about what type of player and how high a level Poch believes he could coach Berahino to become. All of the current squad have had the privelage of his methods,Berahino has not yet....

I thought the idea being presented was that he would be signed in January in part as a short term solution - in addition to being a long term solution. I think his current ability matters quite a bit.

And Poch/Mitchell have shown a great ability to find and improve players that cost us a lot less than the £20-25m we will likely have to pay for Berahino.

Again. If they really think he is the solution and the best target for him, I'm not against it. Just questioning the reasoning behind it being presented by fans.

I will bang my Inaki Williams drum again: 6'1 (only two centimetres shorter than Harry, and significantly taller than Berahino, Son, Clinton and many other alternatives for that role), lightning fast and able to cover both wing-forward positions as well as up front.

I know very little about him. Count me as convinced!

Can't we just sign this Williams guy already? Easily better than Berahino Been saying so for years...

 

[DubaiSpur]

I know very little about him. Count me as convinced!

Can't we just sign this Williams guy already? Easily better than Berahino Been saying so for years...

I don't know much about him either. I only came across him during the eight or so hours I spent one utterly jobless day trying to find alternatives to Berahino that fit within the *huge* megastructure of prerequisites that Poch, Mitchell and Levy would together require from new signings (young, uber fit, physical, willing to learn, humble, high resale value, some record of consistency, from comparable leagues, etcetera, etcetera). What I could get was that he's only 21, has played under Marcelo Bielsa at Athletic Bilbao (which is always a plus given how Poch reveres the man and follows most of his methods), has really only come into his own this season, is a tall, lightning forward with some finishing ability and a great work-rate.....

...and, perhaps most interestingly, has held off on signing a new deal with Bilbao that would raise his release clause from where it presently is: namely, set at a seemingly very cheap 14.5 million pounds (20 million euros).


http://www.espnfc.us/story/2695614/athletic-bilbao-hope-to-double-inaki-williams-buy-out-clause
http://bizkaia.eldesmarque.com/athl...ere-quedarse-y-nosotros-queremos-que-se-quede (google translate)

I feel like, if we are interested in this guy (and by rights we should be), we'll either make a move for him in January or not at all, given that a) he'll be very expensive once his release clause is doubled, and b) Bilbao usually don't negotiate for their players, preferring that suitors instead meet their very high release clauses. However, based on my limited knowledge of the lad, and the exhaustion I felt after spending a full working day searching for cheap Berahino replacements....go for him, Poch. He's perfect.

Edit: @Rorschach , I believe this is the information you were looking for with regard to Williams.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Yes he has and I think he will end up there one day, he is perfect for it.

Not until his 30s. Or an injury takes away his energy.

#10s are ten-a-penny these days. #9s are really scarce and absolutely priceless, because it's such a hard role to do.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Remember that Pochettino was the man that when everyone and the transfer committee wanted a DM this summer said "nope" because £5m Dier moving to that position seemed like the best available solution to him.

We haven't seen nearly the best of Clinton or Son yet imo. We haven't seen anything from Pritchard yet. We have gotten results with the current squad.

But the solution going into January? Spend up to £40m? Is this really the expectation that makes the most sense based on what has brought us success so far?

Remember that of our most expensive signings recently (Soldado, Lamela and Paulinho) only Lamela looks on his way to becoming a success and it's taken quite some time to get to this point (how many times did you give up on him?). Would a high profile signing like that - surely someone that would demand playing time even during a settling in period - necessarily be positive for our results this season?

I'm all for supporting Poch. But again we see these numbers being thrown around like the primary way to support Poch is to just go out and spend big money, in January even.

I agree with billy, it really does seem like you want to be disappointed.

I think Poch would like a Dier or Alli profile CF. Someone raw that he can develop for the first team over 1-3 years.

It's why I think Dembele from Fulham or someone of his profile would be perfect. Especially the way Dembele gets compared to Kanoute.

 

[parklane1]

Hmm. You may be right: it'll be interesting to witness, surely. We'll see if we do get a striker in at some point that Harry partners up with/plays behind: if he becomes a more intuitive playmaker when freed from the responsibility of being our main goalscorer, then great, the better for the team as a whole.

Indeed.

 

[Rorschach]

I will bang my Inaki Williams drum again: 6'1 (only two centimetres shorter than Harry, and significantly taller than Berahino, Son, Clinton and many other alternatives for that role), lightning fast and able to cover both wing-forward positions as well as up front.

I have seen hardly anything of this guy but I saw some highlights from an old Copa match there yesterday and I spotted Williams trying to press the opposition backline (Barca). And he was fast. Damn fast. Ridiculously fast.

Sounds perfect for us from your description.