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Black Lives Matter

Let's review all this flimflam again shall we? And let me say clearly, if anyone here thinks that the appropriate way to conduct the questioning/apprehension of a suspect starts with barking at them, them saying (fearfully I might add) that they're sorry and then pointing a gun at them within 20 seconds of approaching them, then we have very, VERY different ideas of law enforcement and, indeed, how to treat human beings. It is CLEARLY OBVIOUS this man is either scared, mentally ill, high or all of the above. He keep on expressing remorse, regret and most palpably, fear. This was a GROSS mishandling of the situation. I understand these officers are not trained in the finer art of sociology, and are simply trained to use badge and power, but this is a situation that could easily have been played out a different way had they taken a few extra minutes to talk him out of his obvious fear and panic. if one of those macarons had had the skill to handle the situation with a bit of verbal de-escalation i.e. "You're not a bad guy and let's kept that way, just take some deep breaths, it's OK, we got ya, we're gonna make sure you're OK", that sort of thing, then this did not need to happen. It is beyond argument of anyone who is not lacking a certain gene...

 
thfcsteff said:
My question was why not pull up right where he had been detained/placed on the floor and make the moment he is lifted back up off the street the one where he is transferred immediately to the car, as opposed to bringing him across the street?
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Probably allows them to assess the situation better as they walk across the street.

I doubt they would park in the middle of everything and risk an accomplice shooting them in the back.
thfcsteff said:
That makes no sense whatsoever. "In the middle of everything"? Scara. They literally ended up parking in a spot which widened the scope of the entire scene. Why? And they would've been given an assessment by the two officers who had initially contained Floyd. If they had not received that, then the entire protocol for the situation was mishandled far before the actual killing itself.
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You know what cops on the scene are able to relay to those not there when a suspect is resisting?

"Assistance required." That's it - no more, no less.

Those arriving know next to nothing about the situation. Why wouldn't they stop further away so they can assess?
 
thfcsteff said:
I have little idea other than to assume the second pair got a rundown from the initial detaining officers who had perhaps passed one word that the situation was very much under control and that the suspect was both complaint and restrained. Perhaps they thought that in that instance, they could return him to the scene of the suspected crime and get close to determining in real time whether the accusation held weight or not. If they had received word that Floyd was displaying potential for unruly behavior and erratic reaction, I would certainly hope that the second vehicle would've got as close to the spot he was detained as possible to mitigate any further escalation which might occur from dragging him across the street and back to the "scene" of the accusation.
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If he doesn't resist, he doesn't need to be dragged.
 
scaramanga said:
Probably allows them to assess the situation better as they walk across the street.

I doubt they would park in the middle of everything and risk an accomplice shooting them in the back.

You know what cops on the scene are able to relay to those not there when a suspect is resisting?

"Assistance required." That's it - no more, no less.

Those arriving know next to nothing about the situation. Why wouldn't they stop further away so they can assess?
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First of all, yes I do know. And I have told you before, I have friends who are in the police, in various areas as it happens. There will be a "code priority" attached to the call. I'd love to know what it was. Remember, accused of passing a forged $20. That's it.

Just watch the unreleased body cam footage. There is absolutely no "assessment" whatsoever, and the reason is because Floyd was not threatening officers or resisting anything particularly egregiously. He was fearful and scared. That is not a reason to kill a man with a sustained chokehold via the knee.
 
scaramanga said:
If he doesn't resist, he doesn't need to be dragged.
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I would also counter that is someone points a gun at you within 10 seconds of going up to your car, the metrics of both the odd and the situation change. Drastically. If you see anything other than a bloke brick scared and begging, then we again have very different perspectives on the human condition. That being said, where's the resistance? he is in cuffs and on the floor. He left his vehicle. Where's the resistance before he is brought across the street? Nah, it doesn't add up. Fear of a black planet mate, sorry...and trust me, I am very fearful of the "over-compensation" going on in society right now, but this is what it says on the tin.
 
scaramanga said:
I'm not a policeman in a country with a drug and gun epidemic.
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A point that can't be emphasized enough TBH

Not in any way shape or form saying there are not issues, we have covered that on here enough, but in general terms policing is one tough gig.

I have a few mates in the force and some of the stories you hear are insane. It's one reason I keep repeating that our force is class, world class
 
Grays_1890 said:
A point that can't be emphasized enough TBH

Not in any way shape or form saying there are not issues, we have covered that on here enough, but in general terms policing is one tough gig.

I have a few mates in the force and some of the stories you hear are insane. It's one reason I keep repeating that our force is class, world class
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There's a handful of training videos that have made their way onto YouTube, used to teach caution with suspects.

It's genuinely frightening how an innocent looking traffic stop can turn into a cop getting shot in a fraction of a second, with no warning whatsoever.

If that were my job I wouldn't be taking any chances either.
 
elltrev said:
On the subject of BLM, I'd encourage everyone to take this test relating to race:

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html

Just click the link, click 'I wish to proceed', and then click 'Race IAT'.

Speaking as white leftie who definitely doesn't consider myself racist, I took the test and it showed I have a negative association with black people / positive association with white people. And without giving away too much about how the test works, I could feel that bias as I was doing the test. (And again without giving too much away about the test, I've taken it twice with the same results and so know that 'order effects' weren't affecting my results).

It's hard to be sure exactly what my results mean. They might just reflect that society (e.g. media) projects negative associations with black people (compared to white). Or I might have actually internalised some of those associations myself. And they may affect my feelings, opinions and behaviours towards black people more than I realise. I'm not sure. But either way I found the results quite eye-opening, and I'd encourage everyone - especially anyone who feels that the world is too PC or leftie or plays the race card too much - to take the test with a genuinely open mind.
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That's genuinely fascinating.

Turns out I'm a 73 year old black woman who likes lying in surveys.
 
elltrev said:
Lol what does that mean?!
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Just what it says.

But seriously, that's an interesting study. I haven't read the details yet, but isn't there a possibility that second time around the brain is a little more used to reversing good/bad and that this would massively over report prejudice?
 
scaramanga said:
Just what it says.

But seriously, that's an interesting study. I haven't read the details yet, but isn't there a possibility that second time around the brain is a little more used to reversing good/bad and that this would massively over report prejudice?
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It switches the order of things every time someone takes the test, to eliminate order effects across the whole sample. Can't be sure of course whether there are order effects in each individual case - certainly seems plausible. Though speaking personally I've taken the test two times a year apart, with a different order both times, and both times shown a pro-white / anti-black bias - so in my case the results don't seem to be caused by order effects.
 
elltrev said:
It switches the order of things every time someone takes the test, to eliminate order effects across the whole sample. Can't be sure of course whether there are order effects in each individual case - certainly seems plausible. Though speaking personally I've taken the test two times a year apart, with a different order both times, and both times shown a pro-white / anti-black bias - so in my case the results dsite on't seem to be caused by order effects.
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I got the opposite result. I dont consider myself white or black.
 
LutonSpurs said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1293244730415906823
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Indeed.
This is what I was referring to with my last exchange with Scara.

I finally caught up with my friend who is in an elite area of his Police Dept. This is a man who, for 12 years, was an undercover hunting down drug dealers and gangsters. We discussed the Floyd matter at length, and he said unequivocally that there was no reason to pull a gun like that within a minute, and there was no procedural reason not to drive right up to where Floyd had been detained and seated on the pavement. He said he had no clue why they wouldn't have wanted to be as close as possible to Floyd. He also said that videos like this showing arseholes like them make his job exponentially more dangerous. He and his colleagues now have to wear it for those brickbrained murderous idiots. My friend deals with -and has dealt with- countless situations of this nature and never has this conclusion been reached.
 
scaramanga said:
Quite.

No matter how good the cause, sport is not the place for politics.
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In your opinion sure. Some think Sport is the perfect place for political stands to be made. Many may not like it, but it’s a platform they have to be seen and have their voice heard hence why it so often happens.
In fact I don’t know a sport that hasn’t been affected by political points being made.

not just the players either, teams and management etc making calls due to politics
 
Diamond Lights said:
In your opinion sure. Some think Sport is the perfect place for political stands to be made. Many may not like it, but it’s a platform they have to be seen and have their voice heard hence why it so often happens.
In fact I don’t know a sport that hasn’t been affected by political points being made.

not just the players either, teams and management etc making calls due to politics
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Ali and Jesse Owens spring to mind as vital figures representing change and political importance as well as being elite athletes.
 
thfcsteff said:
Ali and Jesse Owens spring to mind as vital figures representing change and political importance as well as being elite athletes.
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totally, but also sports been made political by the governing bodies. In cricket one time, a South African born player who was playing for England wasn't picked effectively to avoid upsetting the apartheid led south africans at the time.
 
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