Grays_1890
Chris Jones
It is but then people like Hamilton and joe public make a big deal out of those that don’t
His comment of “I see you” referring to those that didn’t take the knee was odd
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Black Lives Matter
- Thread starter AuroRaman
- Start date
It is but then people like Hamilton and joe public make a big deal out of those that don’t
His comment of “I see you” referring to those that didn’t take the knee was odd
Whilst not directly related, this addresses some of the points we've been discussing here about the left's desire to remove personal freedom:
https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/
https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I think the editorial is on-point. I think you, however, are not fully articulating a dimension to the trick. What we are witnessing is the result of years of repression and institutional prejudice racially, economically and educationally, I have often laughed at people who speak of the "horrors" if the caste system when, in essence, the same exists in the west, albeit in a "nicer" guise. I often pondered when there would be some sort of slap-back against the flimflam from those oppressed, and we are now at that moment.
I think we'd agree that the biggest problem is it leaves no ground right now for the middle ground discussions, efforts and compromises necessary to get us moving in the same direction without prejudice. Right now it feels like extremist bingo; one side shouts a number, then the other side does, except this bingo ends in severe, fractured and near-irreparable acrimony. I am personally excited by the progress BLM have made, but equally feel it is so so important to bring everyone on the journey and not exclude on some frankly very slim basis. Doing so will continue to alienate plenty of middle ground folk (I've noticed that here even) and thus hand extremists and true racists the dirty victories they want.
Change can always be an amazing thing. Passionate, strong and just change even more so. But when things get brought to the ground, there has to be plan on how they will operate successfully afterwards; burning "it" to the ground without the next phase plan is both unfortunate and unsustainable, resulting (in the end) and seeing the old-bastard-ways return with even more filthy fortitude.
p.s. Harper's generally has great writers IMO
Crab.C.Nesbitt
Bobby Mimms
Apologies if I'm late in the day on this but has anyone seen this?
It's about the BBC "Karen" video...lololol!
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Jesus christ.
No problem, happens to me all the time. Except the girlfriend bit, I'm married.
Self-reporting is an issue with some subsets of the data but the more serious the interaction, the more likely it is to be logged.
I'm sure police don't report every time they push a suspect but I think we can be reasonably confident in the figures regarding drawing a weapon and very confident of the reports when a weapon is fired.
I think that in order to show a need for such a scheme, one would need to show that otherwise peaceful encounters were being made violent by the police. I haven't seen that in any convincing form yet. I've seen some loose "logic" that some police are violent, some suspects are not, therefore police cause violence, but it's not convincing.
We also need to consider why police started to attend these issues in the first place. Whilst there's some mileage in the argument that other services have lost funding, there's also a safety issue to consider. In a society where pretty much everyone has a gun, it makes a lot of sense for police to be the first responder.
I'm absolutely for the decriminalisation of drugs. It's not the place of the state to decide what I do to my body, or anyone else to theirs.
In overly simplistic terms, when weighted by number of interactions with police, minority groups are less likely to have a gun pulled on them and less likely to be shot at.
The reason the per capita figures are so high is because of the number of interactions between minority groups and the police. Some police being racist and plenty being unable to properly use statistics to assign their time/suspicions are contributing factors, but far from the whole story.
You have my permission.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53415314
This isn’t to detract from the BLM movement but this highlights that society has prejudice in all areas, lots to be learnt by many
This isn’t to detract from the BLM movement but this highlights that society has prejudice in all areas, lots to be learnt by many
spurspinter1
Steve Carr
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-53427014
BLM protester statue has been removed by local authorities.
Not having a go here but should that need to be highlighted? It seems bit like you're surprised about black people having the capability of being racist (not sure if that's the term to use, more like anti religion).
BLM protester statue has been removed by local authorities.
Not having a go here but should that need to be highlighted? It seems bit like you're surprised about black people having the capability of being racist (not sure if that's the term to use, more like anti religion).
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
I just think it’s vital to the convo we have been having where things like this and Stormzy’s comments etc highlight what a lot of us have said. Prejudices exist everywhere not just a black white matter
spurspinter1
Steve Carr
My point is that I don't see how a black dude saying something anti semitic has anything to do with the black lives matter movement. It comes down to this whole awareness and conversation thing but I just think it's a real concern if a bame person fudging up is needed to make people aware that prejudice can come from anywhere. Again, I'm perplexed as to why you think it's relevant to the black lives matter movement.
Re Stormzy, are you referring to homophobic tweets from 2011 or the interview about things getting worse under Boris? I've just had a quick look and it appeared to have been a storm in a teacup, he wasn't saying that Britain is 100% racist but that there is a 100% chance of there being racism in Britain.
I love a good bit of semantics cause I like to know what people trying to communicate with clarity, but it's always going to come down to different interpretations and I myself know I can read something a certain way and then once I've come back to it a day later it comes across totally different. Maybe it's being fickle or self doubting but either way I wouldn't last long in a position of public scrutiny to say the least!
Edit: Just found a tweet regarding the stormzy thing which kind of sums it up
"Stormzy, Is there rice in the UK?"
Stormzy: "Definitely, 100%." I
TV news: "BREAKING: The UK is 100% rice."
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
The point isn’t about BLM the point is all people from all walks of lives makes prejudiced comments.
I would call rants about people being fags and faggots as prejudiced as calling a black man a negro and homosexuals have had just a long history of prejudice than people of black origin. Fact being illegal till recently proves that.
Now before it all gets twisted I’m not saying it excuses any other prejudiced views, I’m saying in the modern world there are prejudiced views on every side of every coin, I see it daily from all sorts.
I would call rants about people being fags and faggots as prejudiced as calling a black man a negro and homosexuals have had just a long history of prejudice than people of black origin. Fact being illegal till recently proves that.
Now before it all gets twisted I’m not saying it excuses any other prejudiced views, I’m saying in the modern world there are prejudiced views on every side of every coin, I see it daily from all sorts.
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spurspinter1
Steve Carr
But you posted it in the BLM thread......?
I'm just lost my friend, I don't understand why are you trying to compare oppression levels with homosexuality and black people like it's some kind of competition. Not trying to be obtuse, it feels like you've said (by posting that link) "HEY LOOK EVERYONE BLACK FOLKS SAY DUMB brick TOO!!" as if the common thought is a black person isn't capable of being prejudiced towards one group or another. Clarification on the Stormzy thing would be cool too!
A story came to mind from a while back given the Claude from AFTV thing Son incident. This was maybe 4/5 years ago now, my mrs at the time was from Cameroon, and I introduced her to the beauty of Spurs (at the end of the season when we just couldn't stop scoring, can't remember which one) and anytime she saw Son she'd just start making kung fu noises and brick like that. I'll be honest I laughed but with a sense of like "WTF" but didn't straight up call her out on it, maybe I should have done?
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Because the conversation has evolved over months where we have discussed not only BLM but the route and ways around prejudice.
And I’m not making into a competition, you are saying that and it’s a wrong conclusion.
People have discussed on here for months about route of people’s bigoted views, my point in posting this is there are bigoted views across society. It like racism is an education thing in the same way that black people are not niggers, gay people are not faggots and to use either term is a lack of education, so for me it’s linked to the overall discussion.
Stormzy situation for me is that I feel he let himself down by using homophobic term where homophobia is as much as a prejudiced view as racism or anti semitism etc which is a shame that it came from someone who is such an advocate for equality.
Ron Atkinson rightly lost his job for using a deplorable term, should the bar not be the same for any bigoted views? For me it’s not a competition I just feel it highlights society and where round many corners bigoted views lie.
As for the Kung Fu noises I would assume that society differences made her views more acceptable in Cameroon maybe I am wrong, so I would have given the benefit of doubt, but I would feel uncomfortable and say something to make sure it wouldn’t continue
spurspinter1
Steve Carr
Well it's a comparison at least and I strongly feel that it's not a productive one, especially as we're mixing sexuality and race...I really have tried to get where you're coming from, it just seems odd to post a "remember that some black people are racist/ xenophobic too" link and don't see where the comparison with terms like the N and F words you've brought up come in to play at all. That route is another debate because I'm firmly in to the word being used by people who have been put in to that group if they so choose, like us lot with yids. It's all about the timeline or etymology of a word and it comes down to day to day communication.
But the Son situation, fair enough! I hope in hindsight that I would have at least said "you know that's not cool right?" but alas I am unable to remember..
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Yeh because the parallels between both sets of bigotry are from, in my opinion, lack of education.
Not all white people are racist, not all black people are homophobic, not all Germany’s are anti Semitic, the point is as Stormzy proves we all have lessons to learn in life, none of us are exempt from what we probably believe is our own high standard to live by.
If your gay you don’t choose to be, you are, like I am straight so the idea that fag is ok is odd, especially when it’s used in the context to offend.
Society has a long way to go as this chat proves
spurspinter1
Steve Carr
Even your groups of stereotyping there, it's so unbelievably basic these really aren't things you need to type. Sounds like you've tried to get a bit personal at the end which is interesting! If you've got "everyone can say fag" from my last post then I am even more lost than I was before haha, that's just basic reading skills so try that before you start sending for me, I've been super patient so far.
This has been a process of trying to understand where you're coming from and it doesn't make any sense to me. Prejudice is bad and it's everywhere? Glad I was sitting down for that one phew... If you'd have said the link was in relation to cancel culture due to tensions regarding anything to do with race I could see some relevance, but would you have posted the link re Nick Cannon if he wasn't white?
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
you mentioned people putting themselves into groups suggesting that opened them up to terms like “f” I assumed you meant fags. From that it read and maybe I read it wrong that you were saying it’s a choice for someone to be classed as such as they chose a group?
Was that not what you was saying? That was the basis of my last comment, it wasn’t personal.
I will leave the above on to show I was wrong, I’ve read back and realised it was not what you was saying and I read it wrong, just to prove I’m not trying to demean etc, hands up so apologise there, my bad.
So you are saying prejudice has to sit under Individual banner on here to be discussed?
I don’t understand that TBH.
As for the last point, as a white Jew who has suffered abuse from all walks of life and colours and creeds. If someone white and Jewish who I hold in high regard was racist or homophobic I would highlight it, I would also highlight how it’s disappointed based on the struggles Jewish people have them self endured if that person had banged that drum.
Look I’m not trying to point score or undermine the BLM movement, I’m just trying to highlight that prejudice views exist everywhere and like racism the way out is education. I’m not saying because a black man made a homophobic remark that BLM is no longer relevant or because of that racism is ok. That’s kinda the vibe I am getting from you that you believe I am saying. I’m really not.
If by chance we are likely to fall out on this, I will leave it, wipe my mouth and move on, ask many on here and I like to discuss these things out and will admit when I am wrong.
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thfcsteff
George Hunt
I have just come across the phrase "cancel culture"...I consider myself probably one of the more "left" members of this forum, but I am equally aware of the dangers in things being taken too far and at warp speed. There is a danger that taking a scorched earth policy and flagging every tiny particle will dim the vital and important light being shed on true issues of institutional racism and prejudice. As people reading this thread know, I am a supporter of the BLM movement and initiative. I am a supporter of tackling engrained institutional prejudice and I am a supporter of making sure we tackle policing in a whole new way. I am not comfortable with looking at Fawlty Towers and "banning" it, or indeed any moves of that nature.