Black Lives Matter

[Bedfordspurs]

Britains history is wicked both at home and overseas.

True
It’s why we now have what we have as individuals so we benefit from the past
Doesn’t mean we should ignore it - we should recognise it
It’s also why people want to remain here and come here
What’s that sketch...

 

[Rorschach]

The obvious argument against is privacy. The data would need to be held independently.

What happens with the current recordings now?

 

[scaramanga]

What happens with the current recordings now?

They belong to the police.

That's why this has never really gained much traction - the same people who tend to be pro restraint on police actions also tend to be strong on privacy.

 

[glasgowspur]

and forever it seems !!!
Literally ridiculous
I had to use the ignore button on 2 posters here who are doing my absolute nut in

I don't think we should ignore people on this.
Yes some of the language is inflammatory, but it's obviously something they feel deeply about, and with good cause.
Reasoned debate is vital, only by putting across both sides will this be resolved.
I keep seeing posts that education is vital, well it is, but all sides should realise they can learn something.

 

[glasgowspur]

That is exactly it. And from reading some of these posts, it's a bit defensive with "it was years ago, it wasn't my fault, let it go". Sorry, but people clearly do not understand they BENEFIT from the systemic and strucutual racism that was put in place in the past.

For example, history in British schools, we learn Tudors, we learn WW1 and 2. We learn the 'Industrial Revolution' of 1750-1900. But you don't learn about the British Empire much, bit strange no? Isn't it weird the single biggest factor in making the British Empire what it was (effectively funding the industrial revolution), stealing, killing, isn't taught in our schools? Germany teaches the holocaust? It's a requirement, they accepted their past mistakes.

UK nowhere near that. Cannot accept responsibility for past crimes, over 10M deaths in India during the British Raj, incredible no? We discuss the deaths at the hands of Nazi Germany and Idi Amin, but not Britain on other nations?

What about the 1919 Jallinwala Bagh Massacre? Has there EVER been an apology? No, so people wonder why it still gets bought up 100 years later, because governments, specifically the British have never apologised for their atrocities.

People here need to go read up on Operation Legacy - a British programme implemented in the Foreign Office to destroy their crimes against humanity. Far too many people here reading the Daily Mail and celebrating British 'History' without ever having actually read the full story.

I can barely remember what I was taught at school for history, what I do remember about it is that most of it seemed irrelevant.
If we were taught what you suggest I think it would have been of much more interest to me.
I have a basic knowledge of the history of the empire and it certainly doesn't make for comfortable reading.

 

[markysimmo]

I don't think we should ignore people on this.
Yes some of the language is inflammatory, but it's obviously something they feel deeply about, and with good cause.
Reasoned debate is vital, only by putting across both sides will this be resolved.
I keep seeing posts that education is vital, well it is, but all sides should realise they can learn something.

Being called racist for not apologising for what people did 300 years ago is ridiculous so I choose not to read his posts again
and as for Stephen constantly banging on too, id rather not spend my time on here seeing what they have posted

 

[Rorschach]

They belong to the police.

That's why this has never really gained much traction - the same people who tend to be pro restraint on police actions also tend to be strong on privacy.

Thats a problem alright, but I'm sure they can figure it out.

 

[LutonSpurs]

I think we could take some lessons in humility and understanding from the Germans in their approach to issues based on their recent bad history.

And the British only left my parents homeland after WW2. The crimes of the Empire and the East India company were not that long ago.

 

[JerusalemMan]

Being called racist for not apologising for what people did 300 years ago is ridiculous so I choose not to read his posts again
and as for Stephen constantly banging on too, id rather not spend my time on here seeing what they have posted

It brings colour to the conversation.

 

[nayenezgani]

It brings colour to the conversation.

If @markysimmo bothered to actually read before blowing up, he'd see most people who are anti-racist and trying to bring attention to this don't want everyday people to apologise, they want them to simply acknowledge the issue. They want institutions to be responsible for handling any apology or future steps planned. I explained this a page back.

I think racist sympathisers or people who refuse to acknowledge this as a current problem become so defensive because they feel guilt, and rather than talk about it they lash out and go on the attack.

It's quite telling and many responses to me highlight this. I admit I get frustrated and angry at people who blow this off as something consigned to the past and to be forgotten, but ultimately I try to remain level and provide examples for what I contend rather than just put it in the too hard basket.

Then again @markysimmo has blacked up in the past, so maybe he is just simply too far gone to care or is actually a racist clam? I don't know.

 

[JerusalemMan]

If @markysimmo bothered to actually read before blowing up, he'd see most people who are anti-racist and trying to bring attention to this don't want everyday people to apologise, they want them to simply acknowledge the issue. They want institutions to be responsible for handling any apology or future steps planned. I explained this a page back.

I think racist sympathisers or people who refuse to acknowledge this as a current problem become so defensive because they feel guilt, and rather than talk about it they lash out and go on the attack.

It's quite telling and many responses to me highlight this. I admit I get frustrated and angry at people who blow this off as something consigned to the past and to be forgotten, but ultimately I try to remain level and provide examples for what I contend rather than just put it in the too hard basket.

Then again @markysimmo has blacked up in the past, so maybe he is just simply too far gone to care or is actually a racist clam? I don't know.

Well, I suppose it's good that you get emotional about such an important issue rather than, say, the price of petrol or the cancellation of a TV show

 

[JerusalemMan]

@nayenezgani,
I wonder what you think of the deeper points within this.

https://unherd.com/2020/06/why-i-wont-take-the-knee/

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

If @markysimmo bothered to actually read before blowing up, he'd see most people who are anti-racist and trying to bring attention to this don't want everyday people to apologise, they want them to simply acknowledge the issue. They want institutions to be responsible for handling any apology or future steps planned. I explained this a page back.

I think racist sympathisers or people who refuse to acknowledge this as a current problem become so defensive because they feel guilt, and rather than talk about it they lash out and go on the attack.

It's quite telling and many responses to me highlight this. I admit I get frustrated and angry at people who blow this off as something consigned to the past and to be forgotten, but ultimately I try to remain level and provide examples for what I contend rather than just put it in the too hard basket.

Then again @markysimmo has blacked up in the past, so maybe he is just simply too far gone to care or is actually a racist clam? I don't know.

Calling me pathetic and spineless is not really staying calm. I dont mind it that much, used to pay a woman in Soho to do that to me anyway.

What i dont get is that im on the same side racism is clearly wrong. You did in a recent post start to say things you want to change.

Now if all the talking heads on tv talked about what they wanted to change. Like public enquiries into deaths in custody despite the expense of it i could support it if it improved the situation.

I dont really see the need for anyone today to apologise for the slave trade. But to make sure we stamp out the evil of modern slavery and actually trading with Africa without tariffs like the EU does would also be a step in the right direction.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I think we could take some lessons in humility and understanding from the Germans in their approach to issues based on their recent bad history.

And the British only left my parents homeland after WW2. The crimes of the Empire and the East India company were not that long ago.

Yeah some good points and also the Empire did some horrific things in India. Though for some reason not the same level of animosity remains with them.

Im not saying the British empire was good, never have done but the have been two posters on this very website who said i should expect people to hate me because of my nationality, these are often the same sort of people who preach to you about tolerance.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Think a lot of the anger here and in the world comes from Trump being in power.

I get he is a cnut. I started the Trump thread 4 years ago saying that same thing. He is stoking up anger to deflect his shortcomings. It feels like a tinder box to me that will hopefully fizzle out when he does not get reelected.

 

[Diamond Lights]

@nayenezgani,
I wonder what you think of the deeper points within this.

https://unherd.com/2020/06/why-i-wont-take-the-knee/

My thoughts after clicking the link on an article about Black Lives Matter/Taking a knee/racism/injustice written by Douglas Murray, a white man who studied at Eton and Oxford and therefore someone who has never faced racism or racial discrimination writing a post on racism and how people should feel is...

COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

 

[glasgowspur]

Being called racist for not apologising for what people did 300 years ago is ridiculous so I choose not to read his posts again
and as for Stephen constantly banging on too, id rather not spend my time on here seeing what they have posted

Although I'm replying to you I think it's something we can all take on board.
Some people listen but don't hear.

 

[glasgowspur]

If @markysimmo bothered to actually read before blowing up, he'd see most people who are anti-racist and trying to bring attention to this don't want everyday people to apologise, they want them to simply acknowledge the issue. They want institutions to be responsible for handling any apology or future steps planned. I explained this a page back.

I think racist sympathisers or people who refuse to acknowledge this as a current problem become so defensive because they feel guilt, and rather than talk about it they lash out and go on the attack.

It's quite telling and many responses to me highlight this. I admit I get frustrated and angry at people who blow this off as something consigned to the past and to be forgotten, but ultimately I try to remain level and provide examples for what I contend rather than just put it in the too hard basket.

Then again @markysimmo has blacked up in the past, so maybe he is just simply too far gone to care or is actually a racist clam? I don't know.

There's is a difference in thinking about the here and now and how to deal with current issues than focusing on something that happened centuries ago.
We can influence and change the present, everytime the past is brought up it side tracks the issue and nothing gets done.

 

[JerusalemMan]

My thoughts after clicking the link on an article about Black Lives Matter/Taking a knee/racism/injustice written by Douglas Murray, a white man who studied at Eton and Oxford and therefore someone who has never faced racism or racial discrimination writing a post on racism and how people should feel is...

COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

My thoughts on an article usually come after reading it and assessing the content rather then pre-judging it.
But each to their own.

As for Murray, I seem to recall he's experienced discrimination based on his homosexuality. Obviously not the same but, if you're going to just throw race and education in, then why not sexuality too?

 

[Diamond Lights]

My thoughts on an article usually come after reading it and assessing the content rather then pre-judging it.
But each to their own.

As for Murray, I seem to recall he's experienced discrimination based on his homosexuality. Obviously not the same but, if you're going to just throw race and education in, then why not sexuality too?

Cool. I am going to write on a journalistic platform about COVID-19 and what we can do to fix it, what people should do, and shouldn't do, and why, because I once had a cold.

Also, you can't lump in all discrimination into one bucket, that is literally the problem with people not understanding the root cause of issues. Oh I have been racially discriminated against, therefore I also know how disabled people must feel. Christ on a bike...