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Big Summer Clearout?

First up: we should be looking to keep Modric and Bale at all costs, partly due to their ability and partly due to the strong signal it sends out to other decent players who we like to sign. People need to be realistic - we are unable to pay top wages so attracting top players is difficult. If we cant keep the top players which we have and cant get new top class players then the overall quality of the team will decline....and if that leads to us not getting CL football, then it becomes even more difficult to sign top class players until we have our new stadium and can pay higher wages.

On transfers, it really depends on what sort of formation and style the new manager will play. For example, a new manager might value Krancjar however with the way we play under Harry, its difficult to see how he fits in.

On the basis of how I would play, I would suggest:

SELL/RELEASE:
Gomes
Cudicini

Nelsen
King (retire)

Gio
Jenas
Bentley
Pienaar

Defoe (possibly)
Saha

IN:
1 x GK: needs to be an established GK who can compete with Friedel and then replace him. I think Handanovic at Udinese would be a great buy

1 x CB: top class CB so that we have the following: [new guy], Gallas, Kaboul, Dawson and Caulker. Thats plenty and some decent depth

1 x winger: someone who can rotate with Bale and Lennon, in a similar way to how Young, Nani and Valencia rotate at ManUre

1 x tgt man: either Adebayor or equivalent
1 x back-up target man: similar in style to Adebayor but younger
1 x poacher to replace Defoe if we decide to take him before he gets into his 30s


I dont see that a LB is a priority - benny just needs to play 40ish games per season rather than being forced to play every game and we need to show some confidence in Rose. He was decent when he played at the end of last season
 
africanspurs said:
confidence and form

bigger picture

patience

fans calling for a clear out after 2 points from 8 games.

fans calling same players top class 18 months later

fans saying all we need is one or two more pieces last season. we have those same players.

confidence

form

bigger picture

how would the players perform under clearer circumstances with their manager

would these players cleared out perform better somewhere else? Pienaar for example...why is he playing better elsewhere looking like a player we could do with?

would bale and modric and lennon look amazing under wenger or ferguson? if yes then are they crap players we need to clear out?

confidence

form

bigger picture
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This is the point of the thread AF. I didn't say I want to see a clear out, I said I expect it to happen. Two very different statements there mate. The fact is, we have ground to a halt at the tail end of the season. You could be optimistic and blame it all on the FA turning our manager's and in turn players heads. Or, being more realistic, you could say that our defence doesn't have strength in depth, given that King has completely broken down at the tail end of the season and we don't actually have the correct players in reserve in the midfield to carry on playing our prefered game of football.

With that in mind and a new manager likely coming in, AND with all of the dead wood we have in the ranks of the squad, it all points to a massive change in playing personnel this summer.

I'd forgotten the pros we have on loan too! Would a new manager bring Corluka and Pienaar back into the fold, have they got pre-contract agreements already laid in stone? Personally, I have never rated Pienaar and pretty much hated watching him in a Spurs shirt. He is Everton's Jenas.

As for the likes of Modric and Luka, asking what they would be like at another big club is moot. The question is, will they push for a move? Will the incoming manager be desirable enough a prospect to make them want to stay? Bury your head in the sand if you want, but if we have David Moyes, for example, coming in the door, I'd almost guarentee that Luka will be gone and a few others will be getting itchy feet come January. It would take the likes of Mourinho coming in to turn our own players' heads back in our direction.

I'm not doom mongering, as we potentially get a stink load of cash, and if we reinvest properly, then it doesn't have to be so bad. But I think we are about to have a lot of upheaval.
 
WookieD said:
This is the point of the thread AF. I didn't say I want to see a clear out, I said I expect it to happen. Two very different statements there mate. The fact is, we have ground to a halt at the tail end of the season. You could be optimistic and blame it all on the FA turning our manager's and in turn players heads. Or, being more realistic, you could say that our defence doesn't have strength in depth, given that King has completely broken down at the tail end of the season and we don't actually have the correct players in reserve in the midfield to carry on playing our prefered game of football.

With that in mind and a new manager likely coming in, AND with all of the dead wood we have in the ranks of the squad, it all points to a massive change in playing personnel this summer.

I'd forgotten the pros we have on loan too! Would a new manager bring Corluka and Pienaar back into the fold, have they got pre-contract agreements already laid in stone? Personally, I have never rated Pienaar and pretty much hated watching him in a Spurs shirt. He is Everton's Jenas.

As for the likes of Modric and Luka, asking what they would be like at another big club is moot. The question is, will they push for a move? Will the incoming manager be desirable enough a prospect to make them want to stay? Bury your head in the sand if you want, but if we have David Moyes, for example, coming in the door, I'd almost guarentee that Luka will be gone and a few others will be getting itchy feet come January. It would take the likes of Mourinho coming in to turn our own players' heads back in our direction.

I'm not doom mongering, as we potentially get a stink load of cash, and if we reinvest properly, then it doesn't have to be so bad. But I think we are about to have a lot of upheaval.
Click to expand...

I hope not. We need to add to what we already have, not start from scratch.

Of course there will be some squad players and possibly 1-2 first team players (other than Ade) leaving/retiring in the summer, but that should be it.
 
Jurgen the German said:
If someone is silly enough to offer us ?ú40m for Modric or Bale then we should take it.
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The last thing we should do is voluntarily sell our best players, especially those with 5 or more seasons at the top ahead of them.

Who are our most expensive signings? Bentley and Bent? Both proved to be not good enough. Look at Liverpool in the 2011 windows, ridiculous. Look at the shed load of money City had to spend to get in to the top 4, how many failed signings they had.

There seems to be a belief here among some posters that if you just have ?ú50m+ then we can't go wrong in the transfer market and we will get an upgrade on what we have. That's patently false. Starting from scratch, or starting without any real classy players will be very difficult and a massive gamble.
 
Personally speaking I think the time has come to clear some players out. We have far too many on loan or just kicking their heels and I think a summer of regeneration with a new manager coming in will bring renewed optimism within the squad and the supporters.

I actually wouldn't get rid of Kranjcar or Pienaar as many would do. I think that they can play a role within the squad although not as regulars (form permitting).

Gomes obviously is going to go, not sure how much we are going to get for him but maybe around ?ú4m. I would keep Cudicini and Friedel and as someone else mentioned, use Button as the 3rd choice keeper. I think we can afford to wait till next summer for a 1st choice giving us more time to assess what is out there for us.

Bassong needs to go, hopefully again bringing in around ?ú4m. King I think looks like he is doing himself damage attempting to play and we should offer him coaching terms. Gallas I would keep on as an old head. Nelsen hopefully won't be here next season either. Modric should be sold to the highest bidder if there is any sort of agitation towards wanting a move which I think is nailed on. Any fee between ?ú40m-?ú50m is likely considering Emirates Marketing Project are looking like showing an interest although I would like to make Adam Johnson part of the deal if thats the case.

Other players needing to go will include Jenas, Bentley, Dos Santos between the 3 of them getting us around ?ú10m or so. Saha and Adebayor to depart at the end of their deals also. That should give us, taking into account a potential big fee for Modric, around ?ú60m-?ú70m from transfers out.

We need a quality centre half to compete with Gallas, Dawson and Kaboul and I think we need competition at left back for Ekotto. Corluka for me would be brought back into the fold to give Walker competition.

Offensively I would like to see us sign Hoilett on a free, as I said earlier Adam Johnson would be another good addition. Huntelaar would be someone I would really go after considering he has 1 year left. I want to see us sign a proper box forward and sign someone who can hold the ball up and bring others into play. Who that would be, I have no idea.

Then the gap left by selling Modric.........who do we look to attract? Does it even have to be someone similar?
 
braineclipse said:
The last thing we should do is voluntarily sell our best players, especially those with 5 or more seasons at the top ahead of them.

Who are our most expensive signings? Bentley and Bent? Both proved to be not good enough. Look at Liverpool in the 2011 windows, ridiculous. Look at the shed load of money City had to spend to get in to the top 4, how many failed signings they had.

There seems to be a belief here among some posters that if you just have ?ú50m+ then we can't go wrong in the transfer market and we will get an upgrade on what we have. That's patently false. Starting from scratch, or starting without any real classy players will be very difficult and a massive gamble.
Click to expand...

I understand what your saying and I certainly wouldn't advocate selling Modric and Bale together this summer. But, I think Modric especially is going to be a problem this summer and I for one do not want a repeat of what happened last year. Bale I think will be fine for the time being.

Therefore it would make sense to get as much as we can for him rather than keep him another year and actually seeing his performances decline even more because its another year he feels we have underachieved. Obviously if we were to get a manager that meant he didn't want to leave then fantastic but I am really beginning to think its unlikely.
 
braineclipse said:
The last thing we should do is voluntarily sell our best players, especially those with 5 or more seasons at the top ahead of them.

Who are our most expensive signings? Bentley and Bent? Both proved to be not good enough. Look at Liverpool in the 2011 windows, ridiculous. Look at the shed load of money City had to spend to get in to the top 4, how many failed signings they had.

There seems to be a belief here among some posters that if you just have ?ú50m+ then we can't go wrong in the transfer market and we will get an upgrade on what we have. That's patently false. Starting from scratch, or starting without any real classy players will be very difficult and a massive gamble.
Click to expand...

They both need to look at themselves because they are our two best players, and they've not been good enough since January. They don't deserve moves to a CL club if they are part of a squad that has bottled it big style two years running!

Modric is not worth anything close to ?ú40m in my opinion. He can be a great player, but for a midfielder with his talent to contribute as little as he does in terms of goals and assists even though he isn't in the team to score is not good enough. He's an excellent player don't get me wrong, but I don't buy the notion that he's irreplacable. I've seen plenty of Spurs players move on, that's football. He doesn't exert enough influence in the big games.

It's not a case of us wanting to offload our best players, but if we get silly offers we'd have to at least consider them. Even United sold Ronaldo!
 
What annoys me is you'll get United and Arsenal fans saying things like Modric and Bale deserve to play for a CL club, but if we finish 5th this year after the start we had, then why do they deserve to play in the CL?
 
Libero said:
I understand what your saying and I certainly wouldn't advocate selling Modric and Bale together this summer. But, I think Modric especially is going to be a problem this summer and I for one do not want a repeat of what happened last year. Bale I think will be fine for the time being.

Therefore it would make sense to get as much as we can for him rather than keep him another year and actually seeing his performances decline even more because its another year he feels we have underachieved. Obviously if we were to get a manager that meant he didn't want to leave then fantastic but I am really beginning to think its unlikely.
Click to expand...

I agree with what you posted above about getting rid of some squad players that are more 'squad', and less 'players'.

I also agree with you and the rest of the posters that keeping Modric will be tough, but I'm not giving up just yet. In Levy we trust and all that.

Jurgen the German said:
They both need to look at themselves because they are our two best players, and they've not been good enough since January. They don't deserve moves to a CL club if they are part of a squad that has bottled it big style two years running!

Modric is not worth anything close to ?ú40m in my opinion. He can be a great player, but for a midfielder with his talent to contribute as little as he does in terms of goals and assists even though he isn't in the team to score is not good enough. He's an excellent player don't get me wrong, but I don't buy the notion that he's irreplacable. I've seen plenty of Spurs players move on, that's football. He doesn't exert enough influence in the big games.

It's not a case of us wanting to offload our best players, but if we get silly offers we'd have to at least consider them. Even United sold Ronaldo!
Click to expand...

No player is irreplaceable, we agree on that. I'm just looking at the likelihood that we will end up improving our team by selling Modric for ?ú40m and I think we're more likely to get worse than better. We got ?ú31m for Berba and even though he wasn't irreplaceable either we still haven't actually replaced him. I realize we can improve by signing players for other positions, but again I just don't think it will be enough.

United did sell Ronaldo, but not in any way voluntarily, loads of pressure, players insisting, I think his contract was running down and then a massive bid. And while they haven't declined in the Premier League that might say more about the Premier League than about United imo. What would the league look like this season if United had Ronaldo instead of Young? Would City even be anywhere near them? And how about compared to Barca and Real? How will United manage to step up to their level now?

For us it's similar, how will we manage to step up to a top 4 level without those top class players. We would find ourselves in the same dilemma Liverpool are in at the moment, probably 1-2 top class players away from a top 4 spot. But where do you get those top class players from? We can't just sign them, cause they either aren't for sale or are attracting attention from bigger/richer clubs. The only way we can get them is to sign younger players and develop them. But who is ready to step up? Or are we going to wait 1-2 seasons or more for those players to come thru? Then 1-2 seasons pass and those players want to move, cause how can we attract the players to step up to the next level?

In my opinion, the last thing we should do is sell our best players. Unless we get a ridiculous offer, and ?ú40m isn't a ridiculous offer for a Modric these days. ?ú35m for Carroll? ?ú27m for Milner was it? ?ú24m for Bent?! ?ú50m for Torres when he hadn't been in form for well over a year? ?ú60m and I would start thinking that the value of that money might outweigh the value Modric has to our team. Maybe.
 
braineclipse said:
I agree with what you posted above about getting rid of some squad players that are more 'squad', and less 'players'.

I also agree with you and the rest of the posters that keeping Modric will be tough, but I'm not giving up just yet. In Levy we trust and all that.


No player is irreplaceable, we agree on that. I'm just looking at the likelihood that we will end up improving our team by selling Modric for ?ú40m and I think we're more likely to get worse than better. We got ?ú31m for Berba and even though he wasn't irreplaceable either we still haven't actually replaced him. I realize we can improve by signing players for other positions, but again I just don't think it will be enough.

United did sell Ronaldo, but not in any way voluntarily, loads of pressure, players insisting, I think his contract was running down and then a massive bid. And while they haven't declined in the Premier League that might say more about the Premier League than about United imo. What would the league look like this season if United had Ronaldo instead of Young? Would City even be anywhere near them? And how about compared to Barca and Real? How will United manage to step up to their level now?

For us it's similar, how will we manage to step up to a top 4 level without those top class players. We would find ourselves in the same dilemma Liverpool are in at the moment, probably 1-2 top class players away from a top 4 spot. But where do you get those top class players from? We can't just sign them, cause they either aren't for sale or are attracting attention from bigger/richer clubs. The only way we can get them is to sign younger players and develop them. But who is ready to step up? Or are we going to wait 1-2 seasons or more for those players to come thru? Then 1-2 seasons pass and those players want to move, cause how can we attract the players to step up to the next level?

In my opinion, the last thing we should do is sell our best players. Unless we get a ridiculous offer, and ?ú40m isn't a ridiculous offer for a Modric these days. ?ú35m for Carroll? ?ú27m for Milner was it? ?ú24m for Bent?! ?ú50m for Torres when he hadn't been in form for well over a year? ?ú60m and I would start thinking that the value of that money might outweigh the value Modric has to our team. Maybe.
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Of course, I haven't given up but my way of looking at it is if could be like that last year, imagine after the shambles of this finish which has eclipsed last season given where we have been. And I think I am at the point where I don't care if we sell him because we will end up buying players that really want to play for us and will bring a renewed vigour to the side. Thats my take on it, it might be wrong but hey ho.
 
No need for a clearout at all.

Two things are what I want.. Stadium build to finally begin and Mourinho to be named boss.
 
Neither of those are happening though are they? The new stadium is atleast 5 years away and we're never getting Jose.
 
braineclipse said:
I hope not. We need to add to what we already have, not start from scratch.

Of course there will be some squad players and possibly 1-2 first team players (other than Ade) leaving/retiring in the summer, but that should be it.
Click to expand...

That's where I disagree. Realisitcally we are about to lose King. Gallas is an empty shirt through injury for half a season nowadays and not at the level he was when he first got to us... So, that's our two senior CBs gone.

We cannot make Defoe work over 90 minutes in a 4-5-1. Saha is only a gap filler and who knows what the situation will be with Ade... That's potentially 3 strikers if the next manager doesn't think they can get Defoe working. If Harry stays, I get the feeling Defoe will ask for a transfer.

Bale and Modric are, to a degree, out of our control. There is no way Levy will force a stay for a second season on Modric as I would hope that even he would realise by now how destructive a force that could be on us. If we miss CL, both will probably go, not through choice, that's just the way it is.

Then add players that a manager may not want and it all points to the potential for a lot of movement. Just taking into account the players that are on loan and out of favour, those guys add up to more than average movement, put the rest in and it equals a big, big summer.
 
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