Ben Davies

[Whiffler]

Davies does not look all that {..............} at all.

Insert preference here

Good
Bad
Indifferent
Pretty
Welsh
Green
Tall
Dapper
Sleepy
At all (for those with an Irish bent)

 

[Armchair Expert]

Rose really did frustrate me last season. I felt he was one of several who was always seconds away from making an error which would lead to a goal. On the whole his crossing was abysmal, but he showed a willingness to get forward. Perhaps he needed a decent coach. Let's see what Poch can do with this squad

To me Rose looks mentally unstable. The red card at Villa; the attempt at getting sent off when we were winning at Stoke. He seems like a seriously angry, unstable young man with a huge chip on his shoulder. He is also an incredibly average footballer, dismal going forwards as you say and a liability at the back. Poch may have man management skills but he's no miracle worker.

I hope we can get the Davies deal tied up and in the bag as soon as. Left back is an area that has been screaming out for an upgrade for two seasons now.

 

[indianspur]

I don't know about averages, but looking at whoscored.com, sorting by dribbled past and scrolling down looking for full backs some of the results are:

-Flanagan - 1.7
-Ben Davies - 1.6
-Erik Pieters - 1.3
-Angel Rangel - 1.2
-Pablo Zabaleta - 1.1
-Kyle Walker - 1
-César Azpilicueta - 1
-Davide Santon 0.9
-Patrice Evra - 0.9
-Kyle Naughton - 0.9
-Gaël Clichy - 0.9
-Rafael - 0.8
-Danny Rose - 0.8
-Dean Moxey - 0.8
-Kieran Gibbs - 0.7
-John Arne Riise 0.7
-Luke Shaw - 0.6
-Leighton Baines - 0.6
-Seamus Coleman - 0.5
-Phil Bardsley - 0.5
-Billy Jones - 0.4
-George McCartney - 0.4
-Guy Demel - 0.2

That's per appearance, so I only included players with a lot more starts than sub appearances to avoid getting skewed numbers. Didn't include all full backs, but didn't purposefully leave anyone out. I avoided players that regularly play other positions too.

It's noteworthy that Ben Davies is so close to the top of that list, but at the same time it's worth noting that he's only 0.5 above a player like Zabaleta and 0.6 above Walker and Azpilicueta - 3 full backs that I think most here rate very highly defensively.

Obviously for any one player having a lower number would be better, if all other things are equal. But I don't think you can say that having a lower number makes you a better player. Unsurprising perhaps that Fat Sam managed full backs like Demel and McCartney are at the bottom of that list considering how well drilled they are defensively, how far back they usually sit and how much protection Allardyce asks his wide midfielders to give his full backs. The other regular Swansea full back Angel Rangel is also relatively high up that list at 1.2. I will repeat until the cows come home that this is about context and not looking at stats in isolation.

Going with the assumption that the context of the team surrounding the player is important I checked out Davies' stats from last season, where he scored 0.9 (per game, 33 starts, 4 sub appearances). No doubt that was a season when Swansea functioned better as a team, not a season where they struggled and sacked their manager. Now, it might be that Ben Davies was exposed more in his second season or it might be that he was found out to some extent by opposing wingers or there might be some other explanation for this, I honestly wouldn't know. But I think this illustrates the problem of just looking at a stat like this in isolation comparing two different players at different teams and trying to draw conclusions about ability.

Looking at our two full backs they're very close in numbers, but I rate Walker a lot higher (one on one?) defensively than Rose, yet Rose has a lower number. I think this can be at least partly explained by the playing style of each of them. Walker rather often gets very close to his winger, almost dares him to take him on and very often comes out ahead (imo). Comparably Rose stands off his man more, will fall back and perhaps not get dribbled, but also won't win the ball. So in addition to style of play of each team influencing these stats I think style of play of the individual full back makes a big difference. At least for some a style of play that means getting dribbled past a bit more frequently might be the better option overall. Who does Ben Davies play more like, I'm not sure myself?

I don't think stats like these in isolation is anywhere near a good indication of the actual quality of the player. I have to say that whenever I've seen Ben Davies he's seemed solid enough and hasn't seemed like the kind of liability a 1.6 number here might at first seem to indicate. But I did also watch him more last season and less this season when most reports have indicated that he hasn't been as good.

Thanks very much.

 

[braineclipse]

Thanks very much.

No problem, was interesting to look into. I've never taken the time to consider the "dribbled past" stat in any detail before.

 

[NWND]

Davies does not look all that at all.

But those who have watched him a lot rate him, which proves that stats mean nothing.

 

[NWND]

Wow.... You have just named two of the best full backs I have seen in the premier league there. I would say that both were extremely special full backs.

Precisely, but they never did anything special did they? I think the problem with this new generation of 'attacking full-backs' is that they're all failed wingers who like to try and beat a man and can't defend to save themselves.

Denis Irwin and Gary Neville didn't have anything 'special' about them, but they knew their roles inside out, they never tried to do anything they couldn't. They were great full-backs, but you wouldn't think of anything particularly "special" they could do or any outstanding qualities in either. Neither had great pace, amazing passing range or vision, neither were exceptional tacklers or exceptionally big or strong, neither had a great shot on them or anything.

They were just solid across-the-board players who knew their limits and how to play a supporting role to perfection.

I'm just trying to make the point that you don't need this step-over-throwing, lighning fast, dummying, dancing, all signing/all dancing Brazilian full-back to have a good full-back in your team.

Ben Davies might not have any outstanding attributes, but that doesn't stop him being an outstanding full-back in the future.

 

[harr1984]

From what Ive read I dont think Davies plays like either of a Fbs which is a good thing really. Walker literally plays like a winger at times which is fine, but having Rose at LB also being attacking means that there is too much pressure on our CBs, especially as Rose's recovery isnt as good as Walkers....

 

[Jordinho]

From what Ive read I dont think Davies plays like either of a Fbs which is a good thing really. Walker literally plays like a winger at times which is fine, but having Rose at LB also being attacking means that there is too much pressure on our CBs, especially as Rose's recovery isnt as good as Walkers....

That's why you have two holding midfielders. If both FBs have gone AWOL, one drops in between the CBs to create a back three. We've seen this with quite a few teams at the WC, USA being one shining example (first one that came to mind) .

 

[Rossi22]

But those who have watched him a lot rate him, which proves that stats mean nothing.

Such as? Also, "them" rating him doesn't disprove stats at all. Who's to say they're "right"?

 

[Yiddo]

But those who have watched him a lot rate him, which proves that stats mean nothing.

I have seen him a couple of times and he very rarely passed the half way line and was also at fault for a couple of goals against Napoli last season.

 

[NWND]

I have seen him a couple of times and he very rarely passed the half way line and was also at fault for a couple of goals against Napoli last season.

Well that's it then, he's clearly useless

 

[NWND]

Such as? Also, "them" rating him doesn't disprove stats at all. Who's to say they're "right"?

Such as Swansea fans- I'd take their opinion over stats

 

[Rossi22]

Such as Swansea fans- I'd take their opinion over stats

Interesting, the last time I visited planetswans they all wanted him dropped.

 

[Yiddo]

Well that's it then, he's clearly useless

My opinion, no need for your stupid comments.

 

[monkeybarry]

My opinion, no need for your stupid comments.

Of all the homegrown lb that we could get. Swansea have the best two in Davies and Taylor.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

That's why you have two holding midfielders. If both FBs have gone AWOL, one drops in between the CBs to create a back three. We've seen this with quite a few teams at the WC, USA being one shining example (first one that came to mind) .

How many teams actully played with 2 holding players in this league last season

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The best full backs I've seen over the years are the ones who get the basics right first

I can see the potential in Danny Rose but don't see it being delivered

In Davies he is already ahead of rose in every attribute IMO and will get better in a better team

For the money were talking about (£10m ish) we wont get any better IMO and he will do us for a very long time.

 

[Mumorn]

Personally I always thought Neil Taylor was the better of the two and then he got injured. Davies hadn't done anything of note to get dropped.

 

[Hootnow]

Have we definitely gone off Coentrao or been told that he won't come to us then?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Have we definitely gone off Coentrao or been told that he won't come to us then?

I'm sure he was AVB's boy.

We're also not going to spend £15m on a LB now. The Kaboul and Dembele situations have given us other priorities that we didn't have 14 months ago (when Coentrao and Willian were the final two pieces we needed).