AVB - I want him out now!

[BrainOfLevy]

They scored a lot in the Europa but against the better teams they faced and in the final against Braga they were very cautious

Have you really never noticed the difference between how teams play in Europe compared to the league? A European match is much more tactical. That isn't just AVB, that's Alex Ferguson, that's Mourinho, it's everyone.

 

[onlyme]

Have you really never noticed the difference between how teams play in Europe compared to the league? A European match is much more tactical. That isn't just AVB, that's Alex Ferguson, that's Mourinho, it's everyone.

Good point. You rarely see a Euro side "go for it." It's all percentages.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think perhaps AVB is too cautious due to whats happened in the past and the presures he has of winning games. The thing is his style at the moment is counter productive.

I was on a training course for the last three days in Barcelona (****in hate that city) and one of the things I learnt (I think its Parkinsons princple but could be wrong) is that how you start your day off determines how your day will go throughout i.e. you start your day off moody and the chances are you will be. You start your day off enthusiastically and the chances are you will be enthusiastic during the day hence increase in productivity etc. They also say do your most difficult work in the morning as your brain is more alert. If you take that analogy and apply it to a game of football, it would stand to reason that surely we should go out play and pummel them (especially as the players brains are more alert hence more creative in the first period of a football game), get the couple of goals and then control the game (as my examples from last season below would suggest). I mentioned something similiar in another thread that we start games in that defensive mindset and will be and is difficult to get out of it during the game.

Last season there were games where we started brilliantly and all attacking (Swansea away sticks out - Southampton is another) then second half we sat back. This season it seems that as long as it is 0-0 we just do not play (Saudi Sportswashing Machine last weekend) and when we decide to play its actually dull and ineffective (Everton the week before).

Steff - you laughed at me when I said I think our play has deteriorated from last season but sadly I dont see any improvement. We have regressed in terms of style and effectiveness of our 'football'.

Am I mistaken or are we AHEAD of our points total at this stage last season? Irrespective of any stylistic discussions, IF that is the case, then it is simply not regression in terms of 'effectiveness'…

I trust you've read my own personal observations of AVB right now?

 

[thfcsteff]

Absolutely this. Huge pressure to get results is causing an extremely cautious approach in our games.

I have to say this mate because I know you will get it and won't take it personally…I did say this on Sunday! And repeated it since.

 

[thfcsteff]

1) I'm not drawing conclusions after 10 games, I'm drawing conclusions after 50 Premiership games and loads of cup games on top of that.
2) Patience is needed in football and if I was bought into the style of play, tactics and team set-up I'd say time is needed if the results were poor. I think Liverpool are reaping the patience with Rogers who has suffered some poor. results early doors but you could see from day one how he wanted Liverpool to play.
3) Why do you think AVB isn't a defensive coach and why do you think he wants to play attacking football? To me like Rogers I've seen from day one how he wanted us to play and it's a monotonous possession monster eating space and freedom from the plate of football
4) I hope I look silly come the end of the season, in fact I hope AVB makes me look like a complete prick. I honestly do.
5) Norwich was "ok" it certainly wasn't spectacular and this was a team City spanked 7-0. They are a very poor Premiership side. But we played decent football. Swansea: what game were you watching? It took a penalty to score. From what I remember we didn't look like scoring from open play other than that Paulinho chance he fluffed. Saudi Sportswashing Machine was another dull, turgid performance 1st half which gave way to an entertaining second where we attacked desperately, but this only serves to highlight how the players can do it and don't need time to gel, they just need the rule book thrown out the window as it was in desperation at 1-0 down

I'm sorry, you cannot have that one (and I say this as one of the very ****ing few people here last season who DEFENDED Rogers and said I could see what he was trying to do at the dippers only to get laughed out of the thread!)…yes, Rogers is certainly enjoying some success BUT I absolutely GUARANTEE you, if he did not have LUIS SUAREZ, they'd have had a big dip by now. Coutinho is a fantastic talent but needs more time, same with Sterling and a couple of others. Who did Rogers lose in the last two seasons? Anyone absolutely key to Liverpool's style of successful play? Nah. Because the fact is he came into an average squad with middling expectations given they'd done virtually **** all other than win the CC in the last few seasons. AVB stepped into a squad which was immediately shorn of it's central playmaker (one HE tried to bring to Chelski) and soon lost some depth players too who needed replacing. This season he lost the most exciting and influential player in European football last season, we did NOT secure his prime striker target and his chief entertainer/creative wizard was stolen from the treatment room. Three VERY IMPORTANT shifts this summer which would've seen three necessary different schools of thought and approach to our game.

You don't have to like it, and it's quite apparent you don't, but at least TRY to understand it.

By the way, two invitations.

1) Why not have some fun in the You Are The Manager thread?
2) WHO WOULD YOU BRING IN TO REPLACE YOUR NEMESIS?

 

[Mulletperm]

I have to say this mate because I know you will get it and won't take it personally…I did say this on Sunday! And repeated it since.

I think that most fans do get that though Steff'. The thing is, he is paid a **** load of money to deal with that pressure. That's his job.

Yes he's young etc. But the club pay him millions of pounds of year to deal with the pressure associated with being the manager (coach) of an ambitious Premier League football team.

I would hate to think that the overly cautious tactics/play we're displaying is because he is struggling with the pressure and is scared of losing.

 

[NWND]

I'm sorry, you cannot have that one (and I say this as one of the very ****ing few people here last season who DEFENDED Rogers and said I could see what he was trying to do at the dippers only to get laughed out of the thread!)…yes, Rogers is certainly enjoying some success BUT I absolutely GUARANTEE you, if he did not have LUIS SUAREZ, they'd have had a big dip by now. Coutinho is a fantastic talent but needs more time, same with Sterling and a couple of others. Who did Rogers lose in the last two seasons? Anyone absolutely key to Liverpool's style of successful play? Nah. Because the fact is he came into an average squad with middling expectations given they'd done virtually **** all other than win the CC in the last few seasons. AVB stepped into a squad which was immediately shorn of it's central playmaker (one HE tried to bring to Chelski) and soon lost some depth players too who needed replacing. This season he lost the most exciting and influential player in European football last season, we did NOT secure his prime striker target and his chief entertainer/creative wizard was stolen from the treatment room. Three VERY IMPORTANT shifts this summer which would've seen three necessary different schools of thought and approach to our game.

You don't have to like it, and it's quite apparent you don't, but at least TRY to understand it.

By the way, two invitations.

1) Why not have some fun in the You Are The Manager thread?
2) WHO WOULD YOU BRING IN TO REPLACE YOUR NEMESIS?

I understand it, but that doesn't make me like it, also now the results aren't that great although I still understand what and why AVB is doing but I've lost faith in it and it's precisely because I understand what's going on that I see it's not in my opinion going to change.

1) I will do
2) I don't know, I don't subscribe to the theory that just because you want a manager out you have to have an idea as to who to get in - that's Levy & Baldini's job!

There are candidates out there though!

 

[milo]

I understand it, but that doesn't make me like it, also now the results aren't that great although I still understand what and why AVB is doing but I've lost faith in it and it's precisely because I understand what's going on that I see it's not in my opinion going to change.

1) I will do
2) I don't know, I don't subscribe to the theory that just because you want a manager out you have to have an idea as to who to get in - that's Levy & Baldini's job!

There are candidates out there though!

I think that it can make your argument look a little incoherent if you do not.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I personally don't think AVB should get the excuse that he is 'young and feeling the pressure' because it's absolutely irrelevant to me as a fan and to the club. As has been said, he is paid a lot of money to manage an ambitious elite football team. Youth and pressure don't really come into it and they shouldn't do. I expect him to perform as a good 70 year old would.

The difference is I don't think he is necessarily feeling the pressure per se. Scared of losing, very probably. But I think that's because he knows that during a period of transition you need the squad to buy into what you are doing, especially at a club that expects results. He saw at Chelsea that if he wasn't getting results, players were giving up on him and it's not easy to get that trust back. It's the same thing wth us, despite only finishing in the top 4 twice we are expected to be up there every season, that is way more expectation than even Liverpool and if we were falling way behind then the squad wouldn't buy into the transition. Another reason is that we let Harry go to bring him in, so that move has to be justified in terms of results if not style immediately.

The difference with Liverpool is Rodgers could try his desired style straight away without that pressure on results because they hadn't achieved anything the year before. Sure enough they started poorly and finished 7th. This year they have started well but did not lose anyone key and did not make wholesale changes to the squad, especially in an attacking sense, like we did. They've been able to build on what they had and kept Suarez. No surprise them and Arsenal are looking strongest right now but I fully expect Liverpool to have a fairly big dip in form akin to us 2 years ago at some point. It looks simple enough what they are doing right now - flood forward and let the strikers score - but we had good players like that in a similar gameplan and we can still stutter.

 

[Spurs7891]

Threads like this, just like the booing of players during matches, won't ever help the team. I think we should judge the team at the end of the season. Afterall, you cannot blame AVB alone for the team struggling. In fact, I will blame Levy more for this problem. Afterall, AVB is not fully in charge of the team as Levy and Baldini handle the signing of players. You can't blame AVB when he wanted a playmaker like Moutinho but Levy gave him Dembele and Paulinho. And Levy should have either kept Bale or sold him and bought his replacements much earlier.

 

[NWND]

I think that it can make your argument look a little incoherent if you do not.

How come? My argument is that I don't like AVB's style, don't think its even working and therefore don't want him managing the club? How is it incoherent to then say i'd want to trust in Levy/Baldini to find the right replacement?

I think i could potentially put out a few knee-jerk unthought-out suggestions as to a new manager, but who knows, maybe even give Sherwood or Freund a go? Could be a surprise?

 

[NWND]

Threads like this, just like the booing of players during matches, won't ever help the team. I think we should judge the team at the end of the season. Afterall, you cannot blame AVB alone for the team struggling. In fact, I will blame Levy more for this problem. Afterall, AVB is not fully in charge of the team as Levy and Baldini handle the signing of players. You can't blame AVB when he wanted a playmaker like Moutinho but Levy gave him Dembele and Paulinho. And Levy should have either kept Bale or sold him and bought his replacements much earlier.

Well I don't boo the players during or even after matches, and I can't think how threads like these harm the team. Even if you showed AVB and the team this thread, i think they'd be completely indifferent to it.

 

[scaramanga]

How come? My argument is that I don't like AVB's style, don't think its even working and therefore don't want him managing the club? How is it incoherent to then say i'd want to trust in Levy/Baldini to find the right replacement?

I think i could potentially put out a few knee-jerk unthought-out suggestions as to a new manager, but who knows, maybe even give Sherwood or Freund a go? Could be a surprise?

Why not my nan? That would be a surprise.

 

[Jordinho]

I understand it, but that doesn't make me like it, also now the results aren't that great although I still understand what and why AVB is doing but I've lost faith in it and it's precisely because I understand what's going on that I see it's not in my opinion going to change.

1) I will do
2) I don't know, I don't subscribe to the theory that just because you want a manager out you have to have an idea as to who to get in - that's Levy & Baldini's job!

There are candidates out there though!

We've only started better in the league once in the last 20 years, already through to the next round in the EL and in the quarter final of the league cup.

 

[billyiddo]

Post #269 from BoL - i agree fully. If we cast our minds back to last summer and remember the expectations from posters, there was a lot of demand for instant success/improvment - so it's a little surprising to see critisism coming from those same people when he's supposedly focussing on results more than performance.


Trying to switch from a plucky counter attacking side to one which dominates games all over the pitch (basically transforming our whole approach to the game) whilst also having to get the results to maintain a top 4 push is no easy task id imagine - that's without taking in to account the transfers in and out and other various issues.

I remember a lot of people worrying that he'd try to change too much too soon after seeing what happened at Chelsea - seems they aren't too fond of the slow approach either

 

[mudshark]

I'd say strong AVB skeptics like NWND face an uphill struggle getting their message to spread to the terraces. "We want AVB out, say we want AVB out" doesn't scan, and the chances of the WHL crowd being imaginitive enough to come up with something that does? #slim

 

[milo]

How come? My argument is that I don't like AVB's style, don't think its even working and therefore don't want him managing the club? How is it incoherent to then say i'd want to trust in Levy/Baldini to find the right replacement?

I think i could potentially put out a few knee-jerk unthought-out suggestions as to a new manager, but who knows, maybe even give Sherwood or Freund a go? Could be a surprise?

Do you think that the right time to judge a team's style of play is 11 games into a Premier League season, when a manager is trying to incorporate 7 new players, 3 youth team graduates and re-establish 2 first team players coming back from lengthy injuries? Any chairman who did what you are suggesting would be ridiculed.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Threads like this, just like the booing of players during matches, won't ever help the team. I think we should judge the team at the end of the season. Afterall, you cannot blame AVB alone for the team struggling. In fact, I will blame Levy more for this problem. Afterall, AVB is not fully in charge of the team as Levy and Baldini handle the signing of players. You can't blame AVB when he wanted a playmaker like Moutinho but Levy gave him Dembele and Paulinho. And Levy should have either kept Bale or sold him and bought his replacements much earlier.

This is nonsense which comes up everytime a club has a Director of Football, or technical director or whatever. Do you really think that Levy and Baldini just float about the world signing players and say here AVB, make us a team out of that? AVB will have final say on all transfers, Baldini may identify potential players but he won't sign anyone unless AVB gives him the go-ahead.

 

[NWND]

Do you think that the right time to judge a team's style of play is 11 games into a Premier League season, when a manager is trying to incorporate 7 new players, 3 youth team graduates and re-establish 2 first team players coming back from lengthy injuries? Any chairman who did what you are suggesting would be ridiculed.

Who was in charge of Spurs last season?
How many of these new players and youth team graduates have been regulars in the team?
How ridiculed is Abramovich when he sacks his latest manager? Not very. There is a lot of moaning in the press/punditry for a few days then it all terms to adulation and excitement at Chelsea's new manager and what that means for the Premiership.

 

[NWND]

This is nonsense which comes up everytime a club has a Director of Football, or technical director or whatever. Do you really think that Levy and Baldini just float about the world signing players and say here AVB, make us a team out of that? AVB will have final say on all transfers, Baldini may identify potential players but he won't sign anyone unless AVB gives him the go-ahead.

Exactly, which is why we spent most of last summer's deadline day trying to tie-up Moutinho. Infact, supposdely one of the biggest things that got AVB the job was he came to the interview with Levy and Lewis and all those guys armed with a scouting list of players he'd compiled during his year out.

Plus, everyone in world football has been following the talents of Eriksen, Capoue, Lamela, Chadli, Lloris, Vertonghen, Sigurdsson.

We almost signed Willian, probably on AVB's say-so and we would have signed Oscar in similar circs, but were also gazumped by Chelsea.

We're constantly linked with Hulk and we've been linked to Varela, Jackson Martinez and a variety of others. I'm pretty sure that AVB has a massive say in who we target, once the targets are agreed, of course its down to Levy/Baldini to make them happen.